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View Full Version : Any ghosting with 2000FP?


pelly
12-26-02, 06:04 PM
Hey guys...I know a few of you are using the Dell 2000FP LCD and I need to know a few things...

Do you have any ghosting during games?

I've got a "present" coming my way...but I told them to hold-off until I could verify 100% that this LCD was great for gaming...I've seen this in action briefly at LAN parties...but this will act as my main and review rig monitor so I need to be positive that the quality is there...

Thanks ahead of time for all your help guys....I've got two awesome reviews in the next few weeks...one which is sure to make more than a few of you drool... :D

darkmiasma
12-27-02, 02:50 PM
i don't know about the 2000FP, but the 1900FP has no ghosting for me. I run it digital, and with 2xAA on.

MUYA
01-01-03, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by pelly
...one which is sure to make more than a few of you drool... :D


Drool? erm would t hat particular thing have a certain "FX" acroynm to it? :) Ah man we have waited long enough! :)

Riptide
01-01-03, 01:47 PM
I just took the plunge and ordered one of these (2000fp). I'm hoping I don't regret it. I will return it if there is nasty ghosting in UT2003. Planning on driving it with a 9700 pro.

Quick question: does it come with the DVI cable or did the 9700 come with it?

Riptide
01-03-03, 09:52 AM
I have done some reading of the thread going on over at arstechnica and have got the impression that some users still see ghosting and some state that they see none whatsoever. It's a mixed bag... One positive is that the ones that say they still see ghosting typically say that it isn't much. A "slight" motion blur...

The funny thing is that some folks say they see no ghosting at all and they are running the same software (quake, ut2003)! Doesn't make much sense...

One thing to think about is the fact that a lot of the people who seem to say they have ghosting issues with the 2000FP also use a ti4200. Those that are using the 9700 series seem to have less problems. There may be something to that or there may not be.

One thing is for sure: I will try hard to remember to post my experience here once I get the LCD. Keeping my fingers crossed that there won't be any ugliness w/dead or stuck pixels...

pelly
01-03-03, 02:39 PM
I'll be getting the 2000FP on Monday....Hopefully, there aren't any ghosting issues...If so, back to Dell it goes and I'll be looking at a high-end CRT instead...

I also found it strange how some people saw a bit of ghosting and others saw none at all....

I suppose we're about to find out once and for all....

:D

Riptide
01-03-03, 03:02 PM
I think between the two of us we'll get to the bottom of this ghosting issue or lack thereof. My gut feeling tells me that there probably will be some ghosting still. Probably not very bad (slight blur). I can probably live with that as long as it doesn't affect my accuracy (ok, not that I have much anyway <g> ) in UT2003...

I'm using a radeon and I believe you're using a Ti series card so I think it'll be interesting to see how our experiences compare/contrast. Maybe we should do a review on this thing if we both like it eh? :-)

Mine shipped out already and should be here on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

Riptide
01-08-03, 03:10 AM
Welp, hooked up this baby tonight.

Initial impressions are that this display is noticeably sharper than my F500R. The difference is immediatey apparent once you put the desktop in 1600x1200 and make sure to use the DVI input. The difference is very noticeable with text but photos and DVD playback also seem sharper. The F500R was a little bit better at reproducing pure black but not much.

I did attempt to adjust the gamma using the gray scale linearity test in displaymate but the results always ended up with a washed out desktop which was way to bright. Not sure what was going on there, might've been a screwup on my part. At any rate, left the radeon driver @ default gamma for now.

Regarding the all-important ghosting: there is a minimal amount of motion blur visible in UT2003, at least in Face3 (only 1 I've tried so far). If you are looking for it, you can see it. However, the minor amount of ghosting I saw didn't affect my accuracy in close range battles or sniping from the tower. 3dmark2001 didn't appear to ghost as far as I could tell. Vsync is off, btw on my system. BTW, minus the slight motion blur UT2003 does look better than on my F500R.

So far I don't regret buying it. Glad I got $650 out of the sony though since that helps pay for this new toy.

:)

pelly
01-08-03, 07:26 AM
Thus far, I am blown away by this monitor. Incredible clarity and no ghosting!

:dance:

:D

Riptide
01-08-03, 09:21 AM
What kind of monitor were you using previously? Coming from the F500R, which is one of the best 21", I'd have to say I definitely do like the flat panel better overall. I'm not blown away by the difference but the 2000FP is most definitely a very nice display.

Glad I snagged one of these last week: they raised the price back up to $999 on Monday and I got mine for $850 shipped 2nd day.

pelly
01-08-03, 10:18 AM
I've used everything from an old GW 21" VX1100 ( Trinitorn ) to the Sun 24" monster CRT....Overall, I am very impressed with the Dell...best monitor I've used to date...

:D

Riptide
01-08-03, 11:59 PM
Tried adjusting the desktop gamma again with the radeon's driver settings and displaymate. Same results... Once I adjust the gamma so that it passes the test properly things are very, very bright and washed out. Not sure 'sup with that. If I adjust the brightness setting in the same screen (within the driver) it just seems to cancel the gamma adjustment that I made and the blocks in the displaymate test don't match any more. Not sure what's going on here...

Have you played around with the cleartype function in XP? I'm not sure what to think of it. I'm not sold on it making text any easier to read than it is with the standard font smoothing function. With black text on a pure white background there are times it seems like cleartype causes a little bit of ghosting/shadow. I'm going to keep using it for now but I may change things around later.

Riptide
01-09-03, 10:40 AM
Tried working the gamma adjustments again last night, this time in concert with the brightness slider (driver settings). It still ends up looking rather white and washed out when I get the gamma dialed in properly, even after adjusting brightness down a bit. I think I know what the missing link here is now... Contrast.

Is there a way to adjust contrast on this display when using the DVI inputs? I can adjust gamma and brightness in the ATI driver, but not contrast.

pelly
01-09-03, 12:01 PM
Personally, I don't like the looks of ClearType on large LCD's ( I love it on laptops though ).

As far as the contrast issue, I'll be playing with a 9700 Pro setup later for a project and will try to dig up an answer for you sometime by the end of the day...

:D

Riptide
01-09-03, 12:13 PM
Thanks... I found out that when you are using the DVI input you cannot adjust the contrast and supposedly shouldn't have to.

Not sure wtf is going on with this gamma thing. I'm going to try a few more things tonight. I'm also going to go through the cleartype adjustments on MS's website and see if that makes it look cleaner. If it looks real nice after tweaking it I'll keep using it.

One thing I may try to adjust the gamma will be to use the monitor's OSD instead of the radeon's driver. Worth experimenting with anyway... There is also an auto adjust function that I'll give a shot.

pelly
01-09-03, 01:05 PM
Clear-type Utility (http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/cleartypeactivate.htm)

Some great threads in the Dell forums...

Dell Forum (http://delltalk.us.dell.com/supportforums/board?board.id=dim_monitor) ( search for 2000FP )

pelly
01-09-03, 01:06 PM
LoL....just saw that you just posted in the Dell forum...

:D

Riptide
01-09-03, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by pelly
LoL....just saw that you just posted in the Dell forum...

:D
Heh, funny how that works. BTW, after adjusting ClearType on my latitude laptop I'd have to say it was an improvement. I'm going to go through the adjustment routine w/2000FP when I get home and see if that makes ClearType more viable for that display.

I'm stressing pretty bad over this gamma thing huh? It's just frustrating to be able to adjust the gamma properly according to the displaymate tests and then end up with a washed out screen. I think I'm missing something here as there is nothing wrong with the display, the radeon driver, or displaymate as far as I can tell. I'm doing something wrong I think, just not sure what...

Riptide
01-10-03, 02:45 AM
I've run into something I managed to overlook earlier (doh!). The color temperature setting.

My F500R ran in 9300K and the Dell defaults to 6500K. I wasn't aware of that. After putting it in 9300K it looked real blue, moreso than the F500R did @ that temp. I made some adjustments using displaymate's color scales test and backed it down to about 50/52/51 (RGB) in the user setting. Then went back in and re-adjusted the brightness back down to a value of 40 (-10pts). Now the color looks nicer. I feel stupid for missing that setting earlier.

A few interesting things to note about the 2000FP. Contrast is not adjustable when using the DVI input. The "Image Settings" portion of the OSD isn't available then as well. I read on dellnet that supposedly the contrast is automatic when using the DVI input (thus why it's locked out). The "Image Settings" part of the menu adjusts pixel phase, pixel clock, scaling, and has a sharpness setting. These items might be automatic w/ the DVI or possibly entirely irrelevant, hence the lockout there. One item that never worked out was the gamma adjustments w/the radeon and displaymate. I loaded factory defaults, fixed color temp/brightness and looked to see if the gamma was OK now. Nope. Still off somewhat. Adjusted it again with w/radeon driver and the linearity test in displaymate. A washed out way bright screen was the result yet again... Cancelled the gamma changes and having since examined photographs and some other color tests concluded that the image is pretty much fine now. Not sure whether the gamma adj. issue is displaymate's problem, the LCD, or operator error. Probably the latter...

I found Microsoft's "ClearType" homepage and went through the adjustments on all 3 LCDs I use. Now it's kinda growing on me. Gives the text a somewhat softer less aliased appearance that doesn't feel hard on my eyes. Makes text look nicer even on the 2000FP, just needed to fine tune it with the website tool.

I am planning on keeping this display. So far the minimal ghosting I saw in UT2003 didn't affect my accuracy and the game looks simply awe inspiring at times. The sharpness of this LCD is noticeably better than even my mighty F500R's .22mm stripe pitch.
:D