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Mesce
09-10-05, 01:13 PM
I didn't know where to post it but seeing as I have been a member for a while on here now I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback here.

Here. (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=186656) :eek:

DoomUK
09-10-05, 01:21 PM
I think most of us have heard that the G70 is 'based off the' NV40, as opposed to being 100% brand new architecture. SLI'd 7800 GTX can whoop SLI'd 6800 GT/Ultra and anything else in the desktop market right now, that's all that matters to me :)

superklye
09-10-05, 01:25 PM
A single 7800GTX can beat SLIed Ultras.

jAkUp
09-10-05, 01:30 PM
Yup, especially in shader intesive apps.

DoomUK
09-10-05, 01:30 PM
A single 7800GTX can beat SLIed Ultras.

Not nesessarily, it depends on the application...

shabby
09-10-05, 01:35 PM
Well of course its a nv47, it says so in rivatuner. I think the whole "nv47 was cancelled" was a scare tactic for ati.

http://ca.geocities.com/shabster2@rogers.com/nv47.jpg

Demigod
09-10-05, 01:40 PM
Um so what?

The geforce 4 was based on the geforce 3
The fx was a new archtitecure with new features but shared some similarities witht he gf3/4
the gf6 was a new architecture again with new features but shares some similarities to the fx
the gf7 is based on the nv40 with increased piplines, improvments to the vertex and pixel pipes etc.

While the x800 series and 9800 series are all based on the r300 core. Yes they are a lot faster but they have had very few features added to them. They are restricted by the original r300 design. The r520 will be to some extent, but that does seem more of a whole new chip every time more specks are released.

Regardless all very good chips (except perhaps the fx) what does it matter what they are based on? current p4's and a64's are based/evolved from 20 year old tech.

stncttr908
09-10-05, 01:45 PM
Not nesessarily, it depends on the application...
Hence "can."

Mr_LoL
09-10-05, 01:46 PM
Shimmering is gone for me anyways :D

superklye
09-10-05, 01:50 PM
Um so what?

The geforce 4 was based on the geforce 3
The fx was a new archtitecure with new features but shared some similarities witht he gf3/4
the gf6 was a new architecture again with new features but shares some similarities to the fx
the gf7 is based on the nv40 with increased piplines, improvments to the vertex and pixel pipes etc.

While the x800 series and 9800 series are all based on the r300 core. Yes they are a lot faster but they have had very few features added to them. They are restricted by the original r300 design. The r520 will be to some extent, but that does seem more of a whole new chip every time more specks are released.

Regardless all very good chips (except perhaps the fx) what does it matter what they are based on? current p4's and a64's are based/evolved from 20 year old tech.
Exactly. You take what works and modify stuff that didn't work so well, add some new stuff, see how THAT works, and, for the next generation, do they same thing again.

All I have to say about all of this is: WHO CARES?

It'd be one thing if the 7800GTX wasn't any faster than a 6800Ultra, but the fact that it is MUCH faster, and in many cases, faster than 2 6800Ultras, really doesn't make me care what the hell core it is. It's fast. It rocks, and for a price to performance ratio, it's damned cheap.

I'd love two 7800GTXs. I'd love to have four, so that I could have two in my box and put one up on the mantle and maybe just keep the other one, you know, for "me time".

We could have a new generation of the "Semen on a 6800 card!" It'd be pretty much the same thing as the old one, but it would have a new core, better memory bandwidth and great performance in shader intensive games. Plus, it'd be even funnier than the old one. Because this one would be FASTER.

jAkUp
09-10-05, 01:51 PM
I'd love two 7800GTXs. I'd love to have four, so that I could have two in my box and put one up on the mantle and maybe just keep the other one, you know, for "me time".

We could have a new generation of the "Semen on a 6800 card!" It'd be pretty much the same thing as the old one, but it would have a new core, better memory bandwidth and great performance in shader intensive games. Plus, it'd be even funnier than the old one. Because this one would be FASTER.

hahahahaha

Mesce
09-10-05, 01:52 PM
Its because nVidia first cancelled the nv47 and brought out a G70. The stamp on the core says G70 but the core reads as a nv47?! nv47 is supposed to be dead and gone..

Which makes G70 a refresh.


Edit: If you read the thread Im totally on your guys side. But I thought it would be an interesting read.

FraGTastiK
09-10-05, 02:05 PM
meh so what,the guy obviously is trying to make a big deal out of nothing(fishy bzness,lie).this one would also fall into recent attacks orchestrated towards G70.

when you dont have anything to compete you bitch about the competition.trying to make up an innocent non fanboy face wont help him either.

OMG G70 core reads nv47.that means your 7800GTX cant rip thru Farcry with HDR on and it cant do any trasnparency AA!basically we are all fooled.

I guess that guy walks around the streets convicting people about how their underwear color doesnt match what he had in mind :b

superklye
09-10-05, 02:09 PM
Its because nVidia first cancelled the nv47 and brought out a G70. The stamp on the core says G70 but the core reads as a nv47?! nv47 is supposed to be dead and gone..

Which makes G70 a refresh.


Edit: If you read the thread Im totally on your guys side. But I thought it would be an interesting read.
Maybe, but unlike MOST refreshes, this doesn't just bump the core speed up 50MHz and the RAM 100MHz. It's a HUGE step up.

Mesce
09-10-05, 02:26 PM
Maybe, but unlike MOST refreshes, this doesn't just bump the core speed up 50MHz and the RAM 100MHz. It's a HUGE step up.


I say this that nVidia knew ATi couldnt bring crossfire so they could put 2x 6800ultras against ATi's refresh the x850xtpe and decided to delay what was the nv47 just a new process(110nm) and speed bump then. I will not argue that the G70 has some nv47 in it but it also has nv40 in it because underneath the new features and steroids it is a nv40, just like the x800 series was based on the 9700pro architecture.

And with the old nv47, I would say that they reworked it and advanced what was just a speed bump and 110nm to something much much more that is the G70, I couldn't for the life of me try and convince him that nVidia had not lied to the public (which he thinks).

OWA
09-10-05, 02:32 PM
And with the old nv47, I would say that they reworked it and advanced what was just a speed bump and 110nm to something much much more that is the G70, I couldn't for the life of me try and convince him that nVidia had not lied to the public (which he thinks).
Why care what he thinks? Is it keeping you awake at night?

msxyz
09-10-05, 06:43 PM
The G70 stands to the NV40 as the TNT2 stood to the TNT or the GeForce2 stood to the GeForce256

Renaming the card is just clever marketing. I don't think anyone in the biz or in the industry denied this. I don't care about what believe the vast majority of people. Cogito, ergo sum ;)

Raje
09-10-05, 06:46 PM
Why care what he thinks? Is it keeping you awake at night?

:lol2:

All I have to say about "G70 is truly nothing more than the NV47..." is "So What?"

It speaks volumes about NVIDIA's architecture for them to have a "refresh" be such a huge jump in performance with new features and have it compete* with ATI's "Next Generation OMGZORZ :eek: ultra-threaded quad-core 3D architecture 512-bit ring bus VPU (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2527) :eek:".

*Assuming it will be G70 that competes with R5x0 and not G80

zoomy942
09-10-05, 07:36 PM
what gets me about this (besdies the fact that i dont think it matters).. is that AMD and intel take current techniology and revamp it all the time..

pentium M - derived from the pentium III

AMD Socket 939 - all those cores are based off each other.. (hammer, newcastle, winchester, venice)

the point being, engineers "dont fix what aint broke". they just look at ways to advance the features on a chip. it benefits them (and consumers) by doing this because they dont have to redesign anything. they save money by tweaking what is already fast.

ViN86
09-10-05, 09:25 PM
Exactly. You take what works and modify stuff that didn't work so well, add some new stuff, see how THAT works, and, for the next generation, do they same thing again.
haha isnt this what hardware designers have been doing for years now?

Blacklash
09-11-05, 02:39 AM
Well I just have two wimpy 7800 GTs and they suit me fine.

Lemur.fi
09-11-05, 03:10 AM
You have to remember that there is marketing for the less technologically aware people and then there is reality and results for the more technologically aware people.

The less aware do not understand that for example a 5% change to a chip is a huge project and means months if not even years of work. To them you need to say that everything is totally new and awesome before they understand that the new generation is a lot better than the one before it.

superklye
09-11-05, 03:11 AM
haha isnt this what hardware designers have been doing for years now?
Exactly. I don't blame them. I would do the same thing (and do, especially with papers)...why fix what isn't broken? If it's kicking ass now and will kick more ass with a few minor modifications and some new, extra features...do it!

Burnt_Ram
09-11-05, 09:43 AM
well the G70 may be based off the NV40, but my 7800 GT kicks my 6800 GT's but bigtime !

that's what matters right ? ;)

ricercar
09-11-05, 06:28 PM
The less aware do not understand that for example a 5% change to a chip is a huge project and means months if not even years of work. This turns out not to be the case. Double performance is easily within reach of one generation of GPU. Consider the difference between FX 5200 (NV34) and 5950 (NV38). Consider that NV36 was arbitrarily designed to be double the performance of NV31. I remember the laughing when marketing announced 2x as the complete NV36 spec out of the blue at a Wednesday meeting, yet NV36 took less than one summer to tape out.

I have no problems believing that NV47 offers 2x the performance of NV40, even if I didn't have verification from multiple NVIDIA employees. What I find absolutely hilarious is that the Inquirer posted the G70 name within three hours of the engineering name change, but the Inq continued to insist for months that G70 was defininitely not NV47. NVIDIA leaks like a sieve, but the holes are strangely shaped.