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slick
09-18-05, 08:49 PM
BlimBlim got an exclusive look at Gears of War with Mark Rein and Cliffy B. Here is a video of Mark playing the game, and the best news, it is running at a full 60 fps! Dear god is this gorgeous or what.

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2016_en.html

Fighting Spirit
09-19-05, 06:21 AM
BlimBlim got an exclusive look at Gears of War with Mark Rein and Cliffy B. Here is a video of Mark playing the game, and the best news, it is running at a full 60 fps! Dear god is this gorgeous or what.

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2016_en.html

Naah not that super great I say..if you want real next gen power take a look att MGS4 thats Power ..total next gen but this is not IMO

I am no PS3 fan boy or so..could cal me PC fanboy thats for sure hehe..
annyway I think PS3 gonna eat 360 for breakfast couse what I have seen from 360 can all be done on a high en Pc today so just hope that PS3 can deliver so it can stand up a little better..but hey if you want real next gen take a look att cry engine 2 ..just wait for Wista/ DX10 Games thats where the future is :D

PeterJensen
09-19-05, 07:36 AM
Naah not that super great I say..if you want real next gen power take a look att MGS4 thats Power ..total next gen but this is not IMO

I am no PS3 fan boy or so..could cal me PC fanboy thats for sure hehe..
annyway I think PS3 gonna eat 360 for breakfast couse what I have seen from 360 can all be done on a high en Pc today so just hope that PS3 can deliver so it can stand up a little better..but hey if you want real next gen take a look att cry engine 2 ..just wait for Wista/ DX10 Games thats where the future is :D

Lol baby jesus will save us all :rolleyes:

russ_3d
09-19-05, 08:31 AM
damn i want a direct feed of this game. texture work and atmosphere seems to be top notch.

and im glad the animations seem to be improving, with the over the shoulder blind firing and such.

if only they made it warhammer 40K... the graphics are practically there anyways - that would be sweetest.

Ninjaman09
09-19-05, 08:38 AM
It looked awesome, great video. However it wasn't running at a full 60fps the entire time. In some of the more intense scenes you could clearly see it drop down to around 30fps or so. I really liked the motion blur effect when turning the camera very fast though, and the animations looked great. Not to mention it was pretty awesome seeing an Unreal Engine 3 game running in such a complete state. :D

russ_3d
09-19-05, 09:28 AM
tbh its the only thing that puts me off the xbox2 - the frame-rate problems. i would prefer it if they sacrificed some detail for consistent frames.

i am always put off consoles if they have frame rate problems (i never bought an xbox) - at least with a pc you can upgrade and iron them out. if GOW drops like that a lot ill be sad - it ruins everything for me because you cant focus on it and i only see the tear.

but im not bashing - as i said the atmosphere and textures looks far better than MGS4 as far as im concerned.

i didnt even want to say this before because i would probably get bashed to death by someone saying im a PS fanboi or such - but that is one of the reasons i never bought an XBOX.

slick
09-19-05, 02:02 PM
Naah not that super great I say..if you want real next gen power take a look att MGS4 thats Power ..total next gen but this is not IMO

I am no PS3 fan boy or so..could cal me PC fanboy thats for sure hehe..
annyway I think PS3 gonna eat 360 for breakfast couse what I have seen from 360 can all be done on a high en Pc today so just hope that PS3 can deliver so it can stand up a little better..but hey if you want real next gen take a look att cry engine 2 ..just wait for Wista/ DX10 Games thats where the future is :D

MGS4 does not hold a candle at this point. The texture work and environments look better by a mile and a half in GoW. Pre-renendered animation footage is worthless anyways.

And the 360 has DirectX10+ (WGS2.2+) by the way, but no developer has had time to incorporate it yet. Fear not, you will be seeing much more.

I think the most important thing to remember here is that they are BARELY tapping the 360's full potential. That videa is running the current build of GoW, which is only running off of one of the three Xenon cores, and I doubt they are fully utilizing Xenos. And that looks drop dead better then anything on a PC so don't even begin to compare it there.

On the PS3 vs 360 subject, both have advantages in their respective areas. Personally I see the 360 as a machine more geared for gaming, but the PS3 is a badass nonetheless, but specs won't put a beautiful game on the screen. This generation is ALL the developers. Blaming hardware is no excuse. They have super-computers under the hood this go around, and you will really be able to tell the talented developers from the mediocre ones this time around.

|MaguS|
09-19-05, 02:23 PM
X360 is not DirectX10 based... at all. You speak like you known everything about the developers yet your posts are full of nonsense and crap.

I have seen GOW running on the PC and it actually ran smoother on a 6800U SLi rig then Its currently running on the x360, and it looked just as good.

ENU291
09-19-05, 02:23 PM
MGS4 preview was all rendered in real-time on PS3 dev hardware.

slick
09-19-05, 02:54 PM
X360 is not DirectX10 based... at all. You speak like you known everything about the developers yet your posts are full of nonsense and crap.

I have seen GOW running on the PC and it actually ran smoother on a 6800U SLi rig then Its currently running on the x360, and it looked just as good.

Magus seriously. You claim to be in the gaming business, what the hell do you do? Work QA for EA? Wouldn't surprise me with your inane lack of knowledge on this stuff.

While Xbox 360 does not directly have the package that will come to be known "DirectX 10", it has nearly all of the features, and many more, and there are some that is doesn't support. The largest thing that the 360 doesn't have is the ability natively create geometry. While Xenos itself cannot create geometry, one of the Xenon cores can be slaved to Xenos through MEMEXPORT, and the Xenon cores can produce geometry, so it indirectly does have the ability to create geometry, but only if a developer so chooses. Then again it supports things like native water/hair/clothing/obscenely specific physics, which DirectX 10 does not. And yes, the 360 has SM4.0

So yes, you are correct, the 360 won't have DirectX 10, but it will have what is known as WGF2.2+. DirectX 10 was going to be called WGF2.0, but was changed back to DirectX at this years GDC-Europe to avoid engine confusion. The 360 retained the WGF2.2+ name though. I guess you missed the memo at the conference since you're game developer and all.




On the PS3 side of things, RSX supports DirectX 9.0c and OpenGL ES (embedded system - basically 2.0+), the problem with it is that PS3 runs off of linux, which does not natively support DirectX 9, so if a developer wants to use it and/or any of it's features then they have to run it with a emulator, which would take a significant performance hit.



Please go educate yourself.

|MaguS|
09-19-05, 02:56 PM
lol

slick
09-19-05, 03:03 PM
Yeah, nice response.

Oh and don't you remember Carmack raving about the new D3D engine? Yeah, I seem to remember him being an avid OpenGL supporter, and was originally up in arms that the 360 didn't have it, but I think, I could be wrong, but I think he was raving about the new D3D engine quite a bit, and how much it's improved since DirectX 9. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Toss3
09-19-05, 03:24 PM
Magus seriously. You claim to be in the gaming business, what the hell do you do? Work QA for EA? Wouldn't surprise me with your inane lack of knowledge on this stuff.

While Xbox 360 does not directly have the package that will come to be known "DirectX 10", it has nearly all of the features, and many more, and there are some that is doesn't support. The largest thing that the 360 doesn't have is the ability natively create geometry. While Xenos itself cannot create geometry, one of the Xenon cores can be slaved to Xenos through MEMEXPORT, and the Xenon cores can produce geometry, so it indirectly does have the ability to create geometry, but only if a developer so chooses. Then again it supports things like native water/hair/clothing/obscenely specific physics, which DirectX 10 does not. And yes, the 360 has SM4.0

So yes, you are correct, the 360 won't have DirectX 10, but it will have what is known as WGF2.2+. DirectX 10 was going to be called WGF2.0, but was changed back to DirectX at this years GDC-Europe to avoid engine confusion. The 360 retained the WGF2.2+ name though. I guess you missed the memo at the conference since you're game developer and all.




On the PS3 side of things, RSX supports DirectX 9.0c and OpenGL ES (embedded system - basically 2.0+), the problem with it is that PS3 runs off of linux, which does not natively support DirectX 9, so if a developer wants to use it and/or any of it's features then they have to run it with a emulator, which would take a significant performance hit.



Please go educate yourself.

Huh?You're kidding, right? :wtf:

slick
09-19-05, 03:51 PM
Huh?You're kidding, right? :wtf:

No sir I am not.

On a side note, now that I think about it, the fact that it has to slave a core isn't necessarily a bad thing. I compeltely forgot about this, but because Xenos can slave a core to do the geometry for it, it enables a technique called "Procedural Synthesis" to become possible. This is a patented technology created by microsoft (look it up if you don't believe me) that basically simplifies the rendering process by a mile and half. Rather then the processor saying "Hey, I need you to render this tree" the slaved core says "Hey, I need you to render this tree. Here's exactly where every vertex on every polygon of the tree is, this is exactly how they are arranged, and this is the how the wind (or whatever) is affecting it."

In short, all the GPU has to do is re-create what the processor tells it to, instead of being told there is a tree, having to create it itself and then render it. It should be able to make some very impressive visuals.

slick
09-19-05, 06:00 PM
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20040263519&OS=20040263519&RS=20040263519 (patent for procedural synthesis)
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20050099417&OS=20050099417&RS=20050099417 (patent for real-time skinning via procedural synthesis)

Found the patent(s) for you.

Yeah, I was a bit rushed in the last post and just gave you an example. What PS (procedural synthesis) really is, is a kind of compression. I'll continue with the tree example. The way that PS is being used in the 360 is for mass unique rendering. Like I said, Xenos cannot natively create geometry, so it can only render what it is told to render. It only knows what pre-made tree's there are on the game. By slaving a CPU to the GPU, it can do some incredible stuff. Rather then there just being that one kind of tree that the GPU (or VPU, as the case may be) can render, there are an INFINITE amount of trees that it can render. Because the Xenon cores can natively create geometry, they can create trees on the fly. Rather then that pre-set tree being sent to the VPU for rendering, a list of parameters are sent to the CPU. With that list of parameters, the CPU can generate a tree on fly. Depending on the type of tree, it will have different possible heights, widths, colors, leaves, etc, but what this enables is a mass amount of inifintely unique trees to be created. Rather then rendering the same tree, the parameters are sent to the CPU, which then creates a unique tree without those bounds, and the VPU then renders that. The VPU doesn't know any different, it's just told what to render, so it takes no performance hit at all. With this technique you will be able to create vast environments and forests that are damn near realistic, with each and every tree having it's own unique personality.

This isn't only applied to environments either. Microsoft showed of a tech demo on how this can applied to real-time damage to cars. Rather then the VPU just knowing how to make the car look when it gets hit in the front, it will realistically react with the shape of the object that it hits. The slaved CPU can generate geometry on the fly based on speed, direction, and what it hits, and the VPU will, again, be able to render that with no performance hit. If it hits a flat surface, the car flattens at the front, if it hits a corner, it crumples around the corner, etc.

Procedural Synthesis can also be applied in texturing. Again, rather then having pre-made textures, the CPU can create textures on the fly and the VPU can render them to memory and apply them to a polygonal surface, and it will still be affected by all of the normal lighting and texture effects.

Anyways, like I said, PS is a type of compression, and it was specifically designed to compress geometry instructions. The CPU creates instructions and compresses them, sends them to the VPU which decompresses and renders all in real-time. The end result is that even though these are 100% unique and created on the fly instructions, they take up no more memory then a regular instruction would, allowing for developers to be infinitely creative with the worlds they make.

Fascinating stuff.

Anywho, my example was very brief and to the point, but if you REALLY want to get into the flesh of how this works and many more things that it is capable of click here. (http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars)

slick
09-19-05, 06:31 PM
Another DirectX 10 feature that it (Xenos) has... PARALLAX MAPPING.

Yes yes, I know, this has been around for quite some time, but it is highly ineffecient as no graphics card can natively use it. Xenos is the first GPU on the planet that can create it in one texture pass.

What is parallax mapping?

http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/compare.jpg

I don't know much about this topic in-depth, but in short, parallax mapping is an extention of bump mapping, where geometry is altered so that the textures always look realistic based on your characters POV. It uses no more geometry then normal or bump mapping. It can react realistically with light sources, and has self shadowing.



Picture this in your head. A forest, created using procedural synthesis, mapped using a combination of parallax mapping and procedural synthesis mapping, all running real-time before your eyes. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

slick
09-19-05, 06:39 PM
Nothing like the resonate sound of stunned silence.

lIqUID
09-19-05, 09:08 PM
who cares?

slick
09-19-05, 09:11 PM
Apparently not you, Mr. PS3 fanboy.

lIqUID
09-19-05, 09:20 PM
where in any of my posts have I stated ANYTHING about which is better? I dont even think Ive made ANY posts in the console section.

I just find fanboys of any sort amusing whether its videocards,consoles or whatever. Do you people make commission off of units sold? No...then why do you give 2 sh!ts about what I buy?

|MaguS|
09-19-05, 09:33 PM
Parallax Mapping is not new or even an exclusive thing to Dx10. DOOM 3 has been doing it for awhile now.

Heck if you would have read the information on the page you stole the image from you would have known that its nothing more then a PS3.0 shader trick. The PS3 can do this aswell, main reason the UE3.0 works so well with it.

Bad_Boy
09-19-05, 09:48 PM
wow slick, your slick.

slick
09-19-05, 10:19 PM
Parallax Mapping is not new or even an exclusive thing to Dx10. DOOM 3 has been doing it for awhile now.

Heck if you would have read the information on the page you stole the image from you would have known that its nothing more then a PS3.0 shader trick. The PS3 can do this aswell, main reason the UE3.0 works so well with it.

How about you read the second sentence of my post? You are so quick to refute my points that you make yourself looks like a dickface in the process, and no, it is NOT a PS3.0 trick, you mindless twit, the only thing they used PS3.0 for was self shadowing, and that was optional. PS2.0 was used to do steep parallax. PS does not have to be used to do parallax mapping, the guys that created steep parallax mapping used PS to make it. You apparently read that article very well.

And yes, I stole that picture, but just to give people a visual. Sorry about that.

Oh, and there is no way you are in the gaming business, and if you are, you are not anything more then QA, because you are cluueeeeeeless.

|MaguS|
09-19-05, 10:21 PM
Your funny, I love how you come off superior but half of what you say is just stupid fanboy rantings from a clueless troll.

slick
09-19-05, 10:27 PM
Your funny, I love how you come off superior but half of what you say is just stupid fanboy rantings from a clueless troll.

Fan-boy rantings? How does me correcting you on what parallax mapping is have anything to do with being a fan-boy? Oh right, it doesn't. You just have no clue what the hell you are talking about and claim to work in the gaming industry, and I find that hard to believe when you don't even know what parallax mapping is.

Seriously, you tactlessly disregard every point I make here. How about you get up off your back and try to make an argument for yourself rather then sitting on your ass where I put you?