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View Full Version : Carmack designates XBOX360 as his "primary dev platform"


Ruined
09-19-05, 05:49 PM
In what I think is the first time ever Carmack has ever targetted a console rather than a PC setup, he now states that XBOX360 is his target primary development platform.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22654

ENU291
09-19-05, 05:54 PM
Is Johnny C already picking sides?? :eek:

jAkUp
09-19-05, 05:55 PM
Well, I guess he sold out :(

LiquidX
09-19-05, 06:07 PM
I guess the month it took Doom3 to sell nearly 1mil copies showed him the light.

CaptNKILL
09-19-05, 06:09 PM
Well, I guess he sold out :(
:(

Oh well.. Doom 3 wasnt that great in my opinion. Doesnt really mean much to me either way...

SH64
09-19-05, 06:10 PM
Oh well .. i guess i'll put all my bets on Cevat Yerli & Tim Sweeny then.
its not like the end of the world if JC is sold out for the consoles :thumbdwn:

jAkUp
09-19-05, 06:13 PM
:(

Oh well.. Doom 3 wasnt that great in my opinion. Doesnt really mean much to me either way...

Well, what about the engine? He is not a game designer. He is an engine designer.

I don't like the idea of console ports for engines... so...

Go Sweeney!!!

OWA
09-19-05, 08:52 PM
Yeah, the news is disappointing. I hope other traditionally PC-centric guys don't follow suit.

Edge
09-19-05, 11:49 PM
Well, what about the engine? He is not a game designer. He is an engine designer.

I don't like the idea of console ports for engines... so...
Actually it really makes sense at this point: right now the Xenos exceeds current PC hardware, so building an engine around the highest-end features availible and then scaling it down to older PC hardware (while adding new features that will be availible to new PC hardware once it's finalized) is probably the best route to go for someone so centered on graphics quality. Considering how the Starbreeze engine scaled to the PCs from a 4-year-old, outdated console, from a no-name developer no less, I'm not too worried about an engine being created for a next-gen console by someone like John Carmack to transition to PCs well.


Go Sweeney!!!
Who's next gen engine is going to be used in a console game before a PC game...go figure :D

toxikneedle
09-20-05, 12:01 AM
BOOOO! death to consoles!

Fighting Spirit
09-20-05, 07:14 AM
Mr C starts to loosing it big time..he cant compete with the big boys annymore so i say Fuc. him and let the basta.. get to console land when everywon else goes next gen Pc with Wista/DX 10 and all ..Im not loosing any sleep over it hehe

Sazar
09-20-05, 09:38 AM
Well, I guess he sold out :(

There are many benefits to working with a console. Standardized equipment makes your job easier and its not like these next gen consoles (on paper) are lacking in features :)

Vagrant Zero
09-21-05, 02:08 AM
I don't play FPSes on consoles. Looks like Doom4 will be the first Doom I pass on.

oldsk00l
09-21-05, 10:11 AM
Actually it really makes sense at this point: right now the Xenos exceeds current PC hardware, so building an engine around the highest-end features availible and then scaling it down to older PC hardware (while adding new features that will be availible to new PC hardware once it's finalized) is probably the best route to go for someone so centered on graphics quality. Considering how the Starbreeze engine scaled to the PCs from a 4-year-old, outdated console, from a no-name developer no less, I'm not too worried about an engine being created for a next-gen console by someone like John Carmack to transition to PCs well.



Who's next gen engine is going to be used in a console game before a PC game...go figure :D

Actually that makes little to no sense based on that logic. As overall platform power dare I say that with current CPU's and RAM amounts we've already exceeded the 360. The GPU(s) will catch up this fall or spring, and by terms of market penetration it makes a hell of a lot more sense to target the PC platform for scalability reasons, and port to console..not the other way around. To target a console is really hamstringing yourself.

Devs won't start hitting the 360 hard for at least two years, as in, ship dates. Given id's cycle right now, a good outlay target gives the PC platform probably double the rendering power of the 360 for when their next game "might" ship. This, and GoW will undoubtedly look better on a PC when it ships too given the hardware that will be available.

It just doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint to develop primarily for a console. However, financially it makes tons of sense, and that's the real motivation in this case.

msxyz
09-21-05, 10:17 AM
You all seem to forgot that Carmack, a while ago, stated that he was considering DirectX for his next engine. Right now, the Xbox is the only development platform coming close to a DirectX10 (or whatever it's called) platform.

Intel17
09-21-05, 10:19 AM
Well, I guess he sold out :(

How so? It's more likely that he finds the development environment of the Xbox360 to be the most flexible for his needs. And from what I've heard, Xenos is more feature-rich than the RSX, so it's in the engine's best interest for him to use the ATi chip. If a super fast nVidia card came out on the PC which was faster than the Xbox360 chip, then certainly he'd switch.

oldsk00l
09-21-05, 11:06 AM
How so? It's more likely that he finds the development environment of the Xbox360 to be the most flexible for his needs. And from what I've heard, Xenos is more feature-rich than the RSX, so it's in the engine's best interest for him to use the ATi chip. If a super fast nVidia card came out on the PC which was faster than the Xbox360 chip, then certainly he'd switch.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it more feature rich. Given that rsx is a unique architecture to PS3, it's entirely possible for the PC to outpace PS3 by launch. In fact, I'm expecting it and there's something wrong if it doesn't.

His motivations are financial, and so far I just haven't seen any compelling reason to goto the 360 for technical reasons.

Tygerwoody
09-21-05, 11:35 AM
bah... Carmack is a loser anyway

I'm ready :firedevil

Vagrant Zero
09-22-05, 02:32 AM
How so? It's more likely that he finds the development environment of the Xbox360 to be the most flexible for his needs. And from what I've heard, Xenos is more feature-rich than the RSX, so it's in the engine's best interest for him to use the ATi chip. If a super fast nVidia card came out on the PC which was faster than the Xbox360 chip, then certainly he'd switch.

You know that's what I've heard as well. And then I remember that the 6800 wtfpwns the ATI cards in features and the 7800s demolishes them. ATI isn't in any position right now to get the benefits of my many doubts. Far as I'm concerned the company has failed to deliver for 2 product cycles now [feature wise], I'll believe the Xenos is more feature rich than the RSX when I see it.

jAkUp
09-22-05, 03:02 AM
How so? It's more likely that he finds the development environment of the Xbox360 to be the most flexible for his needs. And from what I've heard, Xenos is more feature-rich than the RSX, so it's in the engine's best interest for him to use the ATi chip. If a super fast nVidia card came out on the PC which was faster than the Xbox360 chip, then certainly he'd switch.

The Xbox360 chip is not faster than a 7800GTX. We have heard this multiple times.

slick
09-22-05, 06:36 AM
The Xbox360 chip is not faster than a 7800GTX. We have heard this multiple times.

How can someone even say that? Have they benchmarked Xenos vs. 7800GTX? The only PC/next gen comparison we have is Sony saying that RSX is a souped up 7800GTX.

oldsk00l
09-22-05, 09:33 AM
How can someone even say that? Have they benchmarked Xenos vs. 7800GTX? The only PC/next gen comparison we have is Sony saying that RSX is a souped up 7800GTX.

And then nVidia confirming that RSX is a new architecture. Considering it's nVidia that designed the chip, I'd listen to them over Sony. They were straight up about what was going into the xbox, and they have given themselves credence on these matters.

ANYHOW, given that, ATI really hasn't spilled too many beans on Xenos. As vagrant said though, given ATI's stagnant hardware development as of recent I'll believe more feature-rich when I see it. If the Xenos process is so great and hammered out, why is ATI screwing itself on its other process?

Not logical, and neither are the theories proposed as to switching to a 360 for primary development purposes...except one - financial pressure.

In fact, that's the ONLY plausible explanation given that their development "target" puts the 360 as a maturing platform by their launch date and a revenue generator.

Edge
09-22-05, 10:08 AM
You know that's what I've heard as well. And then I remember that the 6800 wtfpwns the ATI cards in features and the 7800s demolishes them. ATI isn't in any position right now to get the benefits of my many doubts. Far as I'm concerned the company has failed to deliver for 2 product cycles now [feature wise], I'll believe the Xenos is more feature rich than the RSX when I see it.
2 product cycles? You thought the 9x00 series was a bust?