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View Full Version : hardware advantage - xbox360 or ps3?


j0j081
09-19-05, 08:28 PM
I'm not trying to start a debate over which console is better...only time will tell! BUT I am wondering about hardware. Up to this point I was under the impression the ps3 has more potential, but then someone I game with started on about how much more powerful the xbox360 is will be. He went into all this detail about it, what is the truth? He has a crappy website where he talks about it, I'll post a link in a few when I find it again.

j0j081
09-19-05, 08:54 PM
here is is gay site...
http://wars.locopuyo.com/explanation.php

Ninja Prime
09-19-05, 09:14 PM
Meh they are roughly similar, PS3 probably has a raw FLOPS power advantage(which probably won't be utilized due to its complicated design), but Xbox 360 clearly has the arcitechture and ease of programming advantage. Basically it comes down to which one has more exclusive games that you want. Expect more high quality games on X-box3lamename and more games overall on PS3, albiet a lot of crap to wade through to get to the good games.

In the end, IMO, X-box3renameit is the better choice if you're only getting one. I think Sony messed up with using some complicated design again, now that Microsoft has done pretty well and made a name for itself, all the small developers that make some of the unique and interesting games will just make X-box3addsomenumbersthatwouldbeawesome games, as they won't be able to afford to make them for PS3.

Of course, only time will tell for sure. I'm really rooting for the big N. Classic games are sweet, and that newfangeled controller seems to have some promise, if they can pull it off.

Nutty
09-19-05, 09:28 PM
xbox360 is definitly easier to code for. MS have the clear advantage with easy debugging via Visual Studio .net, and better tools all round really.

PS3 probably has more raw power in its Cell processor, but because they're not general purpose processors you may have difficulty finding tasks suited for them. Whereas xbox360's 3 general purpose cores, you can put any old code through them and it'll work. Getting parallel processing running on xbox360 is probably alot easier than on PS3.

|MaguS|
09-19-05, 09:37 PM
^

He basically layed it out.

Amuro
09-19-05, 10:18 PM
Advantage or not, your eyes won't notice.

slick
09-19-05, 11:29 PM
PS3 definately has more raw power, but like with everything, raw power is usually harder to control. The Cell is fantastic, but definately not suited for games, that being said, it doesn't mean that it won't work well for games, but it it doesn't have much practical use for it. Yes, it has huge floating point precision scores, but all that means is that it can perform complex arithmatic with large numbers very quickly. As long as devs can delineate all arithmatic to the SPE's and keep the ALU's open on the GPC, then it should be able to do some nice stuff. The largest problem is that the SPE's are slaved directly the the GPC, and cannot function independent from it, so SPE's can only do what the GPC tells it it can do, and all that piling up takes cycles away from the GPC. Granted, if you handle the code effectively, the Cell can be a very powerful asset, but that takes a lot of work, and a lot of time in the debugger.

The 360 definately went with effeciency over raw power. Xenon doesn't put up as huge numbers, but it can get what needs to be done, done. From a developer standpoint, it is a much nicer system to work with, both on paper and in real application. Though there are three cores, you don't see that as a developer, only the 6 threads that are available. Depending on the threads you use the, 360 will the cores accordingly, this is great because it allows you to get very close to the hardware without directly having to manage it. I also like the memory architecture better. The 360 has a unified memory architecture, where the CPU and GPU share the same 512 megs of GDDR3 memory. This is nice because it keeps consistant timings and bandwith, and you can appropriate resources as you see fit without being limited to 256 meg on either side.

I think that if you could get the Cell running in perfect harmony for your engine, it would be more powerful than the 360, but realistically speaking, that would take years of development to do. The 360 is definately more developer friendly, and is by no means a pushover performance wise. Three 3.2ghz cores can do a LOT for a game when used appropriately, but that doesn't happen in a short amount of time either..


On the GPU side of things, I think that they Xbox 360 has the PS3 beat by a mile and half. The RSX is based off of the conventional graphics card design, and will most likely end up having 24 pp and 12 ps, but Sony won't come out and say it because they don't want to have any part of their hardware look inferior. The RSX will be using DirectX9.0c and OpenGL ES. Not to say that this won't be powerful, I believe that devs will be pushing some great stuff with it at first, but the Xenos is definately more versatile in design and more future proof. Xenos will really allow developers to squeeze performance out with the unified pipes because they will never ever be wasting one no matter what (if they are good developers :p).

The 360's Xenos is a completely new architecture design, using 48 unified pipes that can by dynamically changed at any time to do whatever it needs. It has a whole SLEW of firmware that is awesome, namely WGF2.2+ (which is basically DirectX10), SM4, on-board physics, etc etc, and I've gone into detail about it many a time and am not gonna do it again. :p The feature I am most excited about is the technology called procedural synthesis, which will kick absolute ass, and you can read my synopsis on it here. (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=698918&postcount=15)

I think both machines will be great and will produce awesome visuals, but the 360 fan-boy aside, I really do believe that later in the console's life cycle's the 360 will be able to do more impressive stuff visually, and that will show.

oldsk00l
09-19-05, 11:34 PM
blah blah blah

another idiotic pointless thread that will go no where

thanks

Amuro
09-20-05, 01:11 AM
blah blah blah

another idiotic pointless thread that will go no where

thanks
QFE & QFT

Ninjaman09
09-20-05, 07:21 AM
QFE & QFT
Second!

brady
09-20-05, 11:08 AM
Second! :werd:

slick
09-20-05, 02:49 PM
It's a legit question guys, no need to hate, as long as it continues in a civil manner.

brady
09-20-05, 03:55 PM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=332629

slick
09-20-05, 04:15 PM
This is not going "OMGZORS! Waz b3tter!?1! P$3 or teh 360???????????////"

The poster is specifically asking which console has the hardware advantage, which is a legit question.

Subtestube
09-20-05, 05:59 PM
The poster is specifically asking which console has the hardware advantage, which is a legit question.

Y'see - the argument against this thread is like the "logical consequence of communism" one. Communism, at it's core, has some really nice ideas and principles. Unfortunately, whenever anyone's tried to actualise it, it's ended in massive corruption and generally bad things. Usually it ends up in many ways worse than what it was trying to replace, and losing the good ideals at the root of the idea. Some have argued that the problem isn't with the way its been done at all, but simply that in trying to bring about a communist society, the logical consequence is that you'll get something like Soviet Russia. In other words, Communism ends badly.

The same is true with tech discussions over next gen consoles. The impetus and ideals of a good conversation are there, but no matter what happens, it always ends in a shouting match between people with agendas regarding their console of choice.

Just kidding, but there's some truth in it. My personal opinion is that CPU wise, the PS3 has the edge (although not by much), but that's just because I like some of the design decisions that went into the cell. I think the SPEs are a damn fine idea, and that assuming they're utilised well, they'll allow for some really neat stuff. In terms of GPU, I'd give the edge to XBOX 360, but only because the GPU is more feature complete. There's no guarantee it'll actually be faster - 48 unified pipes may only perform as well as half that number of special purpose ones. I personally think that the biggest benefits Xenos gives the XBOX 360 are the EDRAM (which should make AA easy), and the tessellation unit, which should allow for nicer curves where models have previously been all jagged.

In saying that, I still ultimately hold to the view that we won't really know which is technically superior until we see them, and even then we won't REALLY know until 2nd gen games start to come out for them. And in saying that I don't think anyone who hasn't actually coded for both and is an expert programmer will really really know.

oldsk00l
09-20-05, 07:16 PM
It's a legit question guys, no need to hate, as long as it continues in a civil manner.

It's retarded because it's a pointless and utterly FRUITLESS discussion that's now a dead horse beat so many times it's able to make the terminator cry.

j0j081
09-21-05, 05:53 AM
Well sorry, I'm behind the times when it comes to console gaming. This might be my first time buying one since SNES, not that I haven't played ps2 and xbox with friends.