Catholic Church no longer swears Bible to be all true

[sytaylor]

Didn't you know, when Michael Foot went, so did nuclear war? ;)

[UDawg]

Why are my beliefs important to you? What do you care so much? this thread is suppose to be about Catholic Church and the bible...nothing to do with my beliefs.

I am not going to go through all your posts becuase I really don't care.
You leveled a charge against me now back it up or keep quiet. The fact is you can't and I called you on it. Now stop posting rubbish. You throw out flippant remarks then point your croocked little finger at Christians when they respond to them. You make claims you cannot back upt and now you want to get back on topic just as soon as you were nail. LOL! Ok.

BTW I don't care about your beliefs, I care about your claims you can't back up. Further more you won't say what you believe. I am willing to bet money you are a liberal atheist. You run from this label just like every other coward liberal.

[Ghosthunter]

You leveled a charge against me now back it up or keep quiet. The fact is you can't and I called you on it. Now stop posting rubbish. Now you want to get back on topic just as soon as you were nail. LOL! Ok.

LOL..sure ok!


I leave you with a favorite quote of mine:

"Many are those who trade in tricks and simulated miracles, duping the foolish multitude; and if nobody unmasked their subterfuges, they would impose them on everyone." – Leonardo da Vinci

[UDawg]

LOL..sure ok!


I leave you with a favorite quote of mine:

"Many are those who trade in tricks and simulated miracles, duping the foolish multitude; and if nobody unmasked their subterfuges, they would impose them on everyone." – Leonardo da Vinci
Too bad Leonardo was a Catholic eh. ;)

Any way you ran away from the argument like a good liberal. So shooo! :udawg:

[Darth Rancid]

About the acid rain and swedish lakes with fish in them that zaweke mentioned... the main thing that happened was better car engines, higher quality petrol, better filtering and control of industries.. the rain isn't as acid anymore... the collapse of the filthy eastern europe industries surely helped too.

This had nothing to do with the Bible or the Chatolics.. so I'll keep it short.

[Ghosthunter]

Too bad Leonardo was a Catholic eh. ;)



I can see you know very little about him or that quote oh well...I won't bother

[UDawg]

I can see you know very little about him or that quote oh well...I won't bother
You was a joke you goof. You college kids and your percieved intellectual importance is the most annoying trait I know of. Of course I know he could not envision him self in heaven that is why he put him self in hell in the chapel painting. It was irony. He was raised in a devout catholic period but avoided those issues.

Funny how you talk about me assuming to much. Pot calling the kettle black. Either way you still ran from the discussion we were having.

Here is a quote for you. "Some ideas are so obsurd that only a intellectual could belive in them." In your case a self percieved intellectual.

[Ghosthunter]

You was a joke you goof. You college kids and your percieved intellectual importance is the most annoying trait I know of. Of course I know he could not envision him self in heaven that is why he put him self in hell in the chapel painting. It was irony. He was raised in a devout catholic period but avoided those issues.

Funny how you talk about me assuming to much. Pot calling the kettle black. Either way you still ran from the discussion we were having.

Here is a quote for you. "Some ideas are so obsurd that only a intellectual could belive in them." In your case a self percieved intellectual.

Well I will give you a brief history lesson..better yet I will link this page since no matter what I say you will want me to back it up anyway..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/da_vinci_leonardo.shtml

[Ninjaman09]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I put that guy on my ignore list...:D

[UDawg]

Well I will give you a brief history lesson..better yet I will link this page since no matter what I say you will want me to back it up anyway..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/da_vinci_leonardo.shtml
I don't give a rats arss about Leonardo. Never cared and still don't. You cannot back up any of your claims so you run to something you studied in college. woohoo! :D Ok now that you feel secure get back on the issue you said you wanted to get back on. Also there isn't anything you could teach me. LOL! The last time I had a college professor try to teach me something I had the whole class laughing at him.

Now wrt the bible a area in which I could teach you plenty in, you run a way from after making dumb claims. If you wanted to start a thread about Leonardo and his life I would be interested in learning more about him but this aint that thread.

[DiscipleDOC]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I put that guy on my ignore list...:D
Who?

[UDawg]

Who?
Yeah, I guess you guys are right, although I pride my self on not having anyone on ignore. I guess it's the old liberal part left in me that still clings to that old "open mind" crap. :D

[Ninjaman09]

Open mind is all well and good, nothing wrong with that, but it goes both ways. If you're talking to a brick wall it's time to take a step back and reevaluate what you're doing. ;)

[UDawg]

Open mind is all well and good, nothing wrong with that, but it goes both ways. If you're talking to a brick wall it's time to take a step back and reevaluate what you're doing. ;)
Good point, you sold me on this new-fangled ignore list. :D


Damn it I can't see anyone on the forum now. I guess I put to many people on it. :D:afro:

[Ghosthunter]

I don't give a rats arss about Leonardo. Never cared and still don't. You cannot back up any of your claims so you run to something you studied in college. woohoo! :D Ok now that you feel secure get back on the issue you said you wanted to get back on. Also there isn't anything you could teach me. LOL! The last time I had a college professor try to teach me something I had the whole class laughing at him.

Now wrt the bible a area in which I could teach you plenty in, you run a way from after making dumb claims. If you wanted to start a thread about Leonardo and his life I would be interested in learning more about him but this aint that thread.


So fine lets get back to the original topic..other then the bible proove to me Jesus physically existed and did the things the bible claimed he did? Other then the bible you have no other source, excpet a few controversial few lines in a few ancient texts that cannot be proven and we can go into those if you really wish.

Myself personally I believe Jesus story was taken from other Pagan Gods

[CybrSage]

While no good records exist of the life and death of Jesus outside religious works (The Bible, The Talmud, and The Quoran), there are many references to Christians in the 1st century AD. It stands to reason that you must have a Christ to have a Christian. It also stands to reason that these Christians, all believing the same thing at the same time, had a person they all called The Christ.

They Christians say this person was Jesus.

Pliny the Younger wrote about Christians around 100AD.
Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Christians earlier than that. There is debate on his source of that information, though. Even if he received this information from Christians, he would have received it from either those who lived during the time Jesus died (33AD) or were told the information by those who were alive during that time.

It seems silly to say that those who were the first Christians would not know who The Christ was that they were following.

[UDawg]

While no good records exist of the life and death of Jesus outside religious works (The Bible, The Talmud, and The Quoran), there are many references to Christians in the 1st century AD. It stands to reason that you must have a Christ to have a Christian. It also stands to reason that these Christians, all believing the same thing at the same time, had a person they all called The Christ.

They Christians say this person was Jesus.

Pliny the Younger wrote about Christians around 100AD.
Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Christians earlier than that. There is debate on his source of that information, though. Even if he received this information from Christians, he would have received it from either those who lived during the time Jesus died (33AD) or were told the information by those who were alive during that time.

It seems silly to say that those who were the first Christians would not know who The Christ was that they were following.
Well he wants to eliminate any records of that time and then asks us to prove it. This is like telling some one to prove water exists but they can't use water to prove it. Since the bible is as much a historical record as it is as religious book it is valid in its claims of places, people and events. Now some of them can be debated such as personal events such as Moses and the burning bush. Some people say the 10 commandments never existed because there is not archelogical evidence yet there is lots of cross reference of this artifact existing. Wars were fought over them and such. In short there is far more proof Jesus existed than there is proof he didn't.

[sytaylor]

There are also Roman records etc. What there is no proof of is that He was who He claimed to be.

[UDawg]

There are also Roman records etc. What there is no proof of is that He was who He claimed to be.
Exactly!

[Peoples-Agent]

I am not religious, but I actually do believe in Jesus.
Finest freedom fighter going, in effect to the Romans he was a "Terrorist", just didn't need bloodshed to give people freedom.
The old Roman transcripts have alot of "Intel" on Jesus themselves, so it wasn't just a case of follow the Gospel at all.

[CybrSage]

Can you all post links to this information? The Roman records I mean?

Thanks!

[Ghosthunter]

Can you all post links to this information? The Roman records I mean?

Thanks!


i was going to post a whole argument on why I have my beliefs but then I realized nobody will believe anything i post.

So I will link you to this site, it has many theories about historical Jesus. It is not bias because it has both sides of the argument, some scholars who believe he really existed, while others disagree

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

You can also find a link there for every single paper that has anything related to Jesus, and commentary on what it is interpreted such as

I am personally a big fan of Earl Doherty and his site, if you really go through his site you can see he even posts a debate he has against another scholar.

Of course it can never be proven either way. If you believe then nothing in the world anyone says is going to change your mind, and the reverse is quite true as well.

For myself I believe there is too much evidence supporting that he never existed and until God tells me otherwise I refuse to believe in Jesus.

[CybrSage]

i was going to post a whole argument on why I have my beliefs but then I realized nobody will believe anything i post.

So I will link you to this site, it has many theories about historical Jesus. It is not bias because it has both sides of the argument, some scholars who believe he really existed, while others disagree

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

You can also find a link there for every single paper that has anything related to Jesus, and commentary on what it is interpreted such as

I am personally a big fan of Earl Doherty and his site, if you really go through his site you can see he even posts a debate he has against another scholar.

Of course it can never be proven either way. If you believe then nothing in the world anyone says is going to change your mind, and the reverse is quite true as well.

For myself I believe there is too much evidence supporting that he never existed and until God tells me otherwise I refuse to believe in Jesus.

Thanks, I will read it when I get home from work.

The main reason I think Jesus lived (remember, I have not read the link yet, so this might be in there) is because of those who died in His name the same year (or there abouts) that Jesus died. Had Jesus never lived, no one could have called him The Messiah or The Christ, therefor no one could have called themself a Christian and then been killed for it. Peter himself was crucified for not denying Jesus.

[UDawg]

Peter himself was crucified for not denying Jesus.
Beyond Roman records Paul who (his Hebrew name was Saul) went to Spain and then back to Rome where he was arrested and executed for a man who never existed?

Another thing to think about is that these 12 men had to all have conspired to make up Jesus. Judas was in on the conspiracy at one point but then betrayed Jesus. He didn't betray the conpiracy. He did not go to the pharasees and say Jesus did not exist. He only went to them to tell them where he would be.

The 11 remaining were from very different back grounds. Paul whom I mentioned earlier was Saul was a pharasee. Was he in on the conspiracy also? He might have been since he changed his name to Paul to fit in with the Greeks. Now why did he do that? He didn't denounce Jesus he hid his onwn name.

Beyond all this were the hundreds of followers who traveled with Jesus who wanted to learn. Were they all also in on this conspiracy? Were the pharasees also as well as the Romans who later wrote about this time period. I think not. The fact that we don't have a Jesus signature dinning room collection artifact does not indicate that he didn't exist. Jesus did not have belongings.

One last thing. You can follow the line from David to Jesus. Now did King David exist? Maybe he didn't, after no all NO ONE found that rock that he slung to kill Goliath.

Now that I think about it, maybe all 12 were made up also.

[DiscipleDOC]

Beyond all this were the hundreds of followers who traveled with Jesus who wanted to learn.
Try thousands of followers(Remember, he fed on one occasion over 5,000 men, women, and children, and 3,000 on another)....

I get so tired of discussing this issue over and over again whenever a n00b poster come to the PR forums (and he/she thinks they have cornered the market on "Jesus didn't exist theory"), and we always end up with 22+ pages of the same rhetoric.:rolleyes: