Catholic Church no longer swears Bible to be all true

[sytaylor]

Jazzy, I don't know if you were off sick the day they taught this but...

http://www.moonpeople.com/html/kids/kids.html

How old is the Moon?
The Moon was created over four billion years ago. That is 4,000,000,000 years old.

On Earth, the mighty T. Rex, the scariest dinosaur, lived only 135 million years ago, (135,000,000 years).

The first humans appeared 5 million years ago (that is 5,000,000 years). So you see the Moon is very very old.

Older than the Great Wall of China, older than some of the worlds most ancient civilisations found dating back at least 15,000 years. Heck older than my grandmother! Thats OLD!

[Sazar]

The 6000 year figure is an approximation. If you start at creation and go the time of Abraham it was about 2000 years, from Abraham to Jesus Christ was about 2000 years and from Jesus until now was about 2000 years. It's not an exact figure, but it doesn't have to be because there isn't a million or a billion at the end of it.

Which reminds me of a little-known fact. Back in the late 60's when they landed on the moon for the first time, the scientists who studied the moon knew that comsic dust bombards the moon at a constant rate. So they figured that if the moon had been up there for millions of years, there could be upwards of 10 to 50 feet of this stuff on the surface. So when they designed the lunar lander they put big pods on it so it would just rest on the surface and not sink in. Funny thing is that when they got up there, there was only a 1/4 of an inch of dust on the surface. So they took a 1/4 of an inch and plugged it into their formula and they calculated that the moon is only 6000 years old!!!! I wonder why that didn't make it into any scientific journals. Wow, maybe the Bible isn't just a fairy-tale after all!!!!!!!!

If yer joking, okie dokie.

If you're serious? Well.

[DaveW]

Which reminds me of a little-known fact. Back in the late 60's when they landed on the moon for the first time, the scientists who studied the moon knew that comsic dust bombards the moon at a constant rate. So they figured that if the moon had been up there for millions of years, there could be upwards of 10 to 50 feet of this stuff on the surface. So when they designed the lunar lander they put big pods on it so it would just rest on the surface and not sink in. Funny thing is that when they got up there, there was only a 1/4 of an inch of dust on the surface. So they took a 1/4 of an inch and plugged it into their formula and they calculated that the moon is only 6000 years old!!!! I wonder why that didn't make it into any scientific journals. Wow, maybe the Bible isn't just a fairy-tale after all!!!!!!!!

Actually there was much disagreement as to how much dust there would be on the moon. Having the lander sink into dust was a real concern but they simply didn't know how much there would be so they designed the lander for the worst estimate. The depth of dust was NOT used to estimate the age of the moon, you just made that bit up. Cosmic dust does not hit the moon at a constant rate (its considerably less now than it was in the early solar system). And you are taking ONE scientists worst case estimate as proof that the WHOLE scientific community was wrong.

You earlier argument about the world would be vaporized if it were more than a few thousand years old is flawed too. No doubt derived from the fact that the Earth is slowely moving away from the sun. The argument is based on incorrect knowledge of how the solar system evolved - the Sun and Earth were not created at the same time. Besides, the fact that the world is moving away from the Sun is a good argument against an intelligent designer. If God designed it all, he would have given the Earth a perfect stable orbit, not a half-assed unstable one. Or did he just foobar the math somewhere?

These are all typical creationist arguments. What book are you parroting them from? Your next argument will be about NASA scientists discovering the "missing" day mentioned in the Bible. I'm not even to bother with that, you can just read Snopes.

[Sazar]

I like discussions with people who bring reasonable thoughts to the table because it helps me understand better the way one thinks, especially if they see things differently.

Posts like the earth only being 6000 years old and that being a fact just paints everyone in a bad light.

[Electronic Punk]

Jesus was a pimp.

[Sazar]

Jesus was a pimp.

:eek:

You druid you !!!

[Jazzy jeff]

Actually there was much disagreement as to how much dust there would be on the moon. Having the lander sink into dust was a real concern but they simply didn't know how much there would be so they designed the lander for the worst estimate. The depth of dust was NOT used to estimate the age of the moon, you just made that bit up. Cosmic dust does not hit the moon at a constant rate (its considerably less now than it was in the early solar system). And you are taking ONE scientists worst case estimate as proof that the WHOLE scientific community was wrong.

You earlier argument about the world would be vaporized if it were more than a few thousand years old is flawed too. No doubt derived from the fact that the Earth is slowely moving away from the sun. The argument is based on incorrect knowledge of how the solar system evolved - the Sun and Earth were not created at the same time. Besides, the fact that the world is moving away from the Sun is a good argument against an intelligent designer. If God designed it all, he would have given the Earth a perfect stable orbit, not a half-assed unstable one. Or did he just foobar the math somewhere?

These are all typical creationist arguments. What book are you parroting them from? Your next argument will be about NASA scientists discovering the "missing" day mentioned in the Bible. I'm not even to bother with that, you can just read Snopes.

Yes, they are typical creationist arguments. And I've heard all the typical evolutionist arguements as well, and I know that evolutionists will strictly follow their beliefs better than most Christians. But if you boil Evolution down to its core, it is Atheism. Evolution denies the existence of God and asserts that life happened by a random chain of events. Come on - one of the laws of phisics states that matter left to itself over time will break down into it's simpler elements. But the evolutionist says, no a single-celled organism over time will become more complex and gradually get better and better. That never happens - ever. The human immune system is so complex that it could never evolve and without it you would die. Explain to me how the immune system could evolve when life wouldn't even continue without it.

[UDawg]

I stand on the shoulders of Giants, it just so happens I pick great shoes when I do so. As apposed to an ugly boy in nowhere's'vill who needs stilts to see over the crowd and who has to shriek to get Gibby's attention :eek:

I Double goose yee!
LOL as if Halifax is the cosmopolitan center of Europe. BAHAHAAHAA!!!!1
Would you like some more tea and strumpets with your blue collar? :D

[sytaylor]

LOL as if Halifax is the cosmopolitan center of Europe. BAHAHAAHAA!!!!1
Would you like some more tea and strumpets with your blue collar? :D

I work in LEEDS the fastest growing city in europe. Halifax is a town 15 miles outside leeds... Weekly meetings in London anyone? YEEES I'll have some of those strumpet thingies with that. I assume they're nice right? :angel:

[Son Goku]

The 6000 year figure is an approximation. If you start at creation and go the time of Abraham it was about 2000 years, from Abraham to Jesus Christ was about 2000 years and from Jesus until now was about 2000 years. It's not an exact figure, but it doesn't have to be because there isn't a million or a billion at the end of it.

Do you have any idea the corner you back yourself into with an argument such as this and such as you have been providing? The question on whether the Earth is about 6,000 years old, and the question of how the universe (which is a lot more then just this planet itself) are 2 entirely seperate questions. And yet by treating them as one, someone just has to address your claim on the age of the Earth (as that's what's being put forth) to throw the argument out. It isn't just atheists either. My father is both a Christian, and worked most of his life as a chemist. He was also church treasure and served at some other posts in the church. If I showed him what is being said here, he would probably get a chuckle...

If the main argument that you're trying to put forth is that it didn't all just happen but was created; insistance on a 6,000 year creation that was made to appear older "to test our faith" in a manner that would require us to

- set aside our own mental faculties and reasoning ability (God given or otherwise) to

- accept without question a view that some (albeit not all Christians) advance, while assuming

- that this God puts forth false information in the name of "testing our faith", while not assuming (ostensibly on "faith" alone) that some are simply throwing that out there as a convenient dodge to all the geologic evidence that has been amassed.

only tends to detract from such an argument one might try to put forth. If one were to assume an omnipotent God who could do anything, it would be just as easy for that God to create a 13 billion year old universe and a 4.5 billion year old Earth, as it would be to create a 6,000 year old one...) Just a friendly suggestion, take it or leave it as you will...

[UDawg]

I work in LEEDS the fastest growing city in europe. Halifax is a town 15 miles outside leeds... Weekly meetings in London anyone? YEEES I'll have some of those strumpet thingies with that. I assume they're nice right? :angel:

I'm not sure nice is the correct term. :D
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strumpet

[sytaylor]

Ahh... yeah so, you need to see whats here for yourself. I was talking to a hottie tonight, damn...

[Jazzy jeff]

Do you have any idea the corner you back yourself into with an argument such as this and such as you have been providing? The question on whether the Earth is about 6,000 years old, and the question of how the universe (which is a lot more then just this planet itself) are 2 entirely seperate questions. And yet by treating them as one, someone just has to address your claim on the age of the Earth (as that's what's being put forth) to throw the argument out. It isn't just atheists either. My father is both a Christian, and worked most of his life as a chemist. He was also church treasure and served at some other posts in the church. If I showed him what is being said here, he would probably get a chuckle...

If the main argument that you're trying to put forth is that it didn't all just happen but was created; insistance on a 6,000 year creation that was made to appear older "to test our faith" in a manner that would require us to

- set aside our own mental faculties and reasoning ability (God given or otherwise) to

- accept without question a view that some (albeit not all Christians) advance, while assuming

- that this God puts forth false information in the name of "testing our faith", while not assuming (ostensibly on "faith" alone) that some are simply throwing that out there as a convenient dodge to all the geologic evidence that has been amassed.

only tends to detract from such an argument one might try to put forth. If one were to assume an omnipotent God who could do anything, it would be just as easy for that God to create a 13 billion year old universe and a 4.5 billion year old Earth, as it would be to create a 6,000 year old one...) Just a friendly suggestion, take it or leave it as you will...

OK, to address the other question - on the age of the universe itself, the verse which says 'in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth'. The word heaven is a generic term, it can mean the sky or space or the place where God lives. The heaven which he created could be just our galaxy and not the entire universe, this is speculation - I admit it, but it just shows there are different ways of looking at it. I am not as concerned with the age of the universe as I am with the age of the earth. I just wish that people could see past the millions and billions, and dont get me started on carbon-14 which is only accurate back to about 4500 years.

[DaveW]

OK, to address the other question - on the age of the universe itself, the verse which says 'in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth'. The word heaven is a generic term, it can mean the sky or space or the place where God lives. The heaven which he created could be just our galaxy and not the entire universe, this is speculation - I admit it, but it just shows there are different ways of looking at it. I am not as concerned with the age of the universe as I am with the age of the earth. I just wish that people could see past the millions and billions, and dont get me started on carbon-14 which is only accurate back to about 4500 years.

and dont get me started on carbon-14 which is only accurate back to about 4500 years.

Radio carbon dating can measure the age of something up to 50,000 years with a certain degree of accuracy. The margin of error increases the further back you go, but that just means you need to run multiple tests and take the average as the approximate age of the object.

Anyway carbon 14 dating is only ONE of the many forms of radio isotope dating. Carbon 14 dating is not used to date dinosaur fossiles, Potassium 40 dating is. Potassium 40 has a halflife of millions of years, compared to carbon 14's 5000 years. Potassium 40 dating is accurate from about 4.3 billion years to 100,000 years ago.

[DaveW]

But if you boil Evolution down to its core, it is Atheism.


No its not, thats the point. I'd guess 75% of christians in the developed world believe in evolution. Its just in America where you find this notion that "its either science or God, pick a side".

If evolution is atheism, then the entire catholic church including the late Pope JPII are atheists.


Evolution denies the existence of God and asserts that life happened by a random chain of events.


It does not assert that life happened by chance. In fact the origins of life our outside of evolutionary theory completely. Biological evolution is the study of how life evolved once it was started, it does not address what started it.


Come on - one of the laws of phisics states that matter left to itself over time will break down into it's simpler elements. But the evolutionist says, no a single-celled organism over time will become more complex and gradually get better and better.


Chaos theory also states that chaos can appear ordered and form patterns. Life does not ultimately defy the laws of thermodynamics. Ultimately we all die and add to the entropy of the universe. Even in our most creative state, human beings add to entropy overall - burning calories, producing waste, consuming resources etc.

That never happens - ever. The human immune system is so complex that it could never evolve and without it you would die. Explain to me how the immune system could evolve when life wouldn't even continue without it.

Because early life didn't have the multitude of bugs to deal with that we have today. Our immune systems and bacteria and viruses evolved in parallel. Plus theres lots of bacteria that we co-exist with all the time that do little or no harm to us.

And if the human immune system was designed, the design SUCKS. It has many flaws in it:

FLAW: Immune system can be rendering incapable by certain viruses (AIDS)

FLAW: Immune system can randomly start attacking hosts own muscle tissue (auto-immune diseases).

FLAW: Immune system can spontaneously mistake common environmental elements - e.g. grass polen, animal dander etc as threats and trigger and immune response (allergies).

FLAW: Cells of the immune system can error and cause lymphomia - childhood leukemia and all that horrid stuff.

This is your evidence of intelligent design? God need to fix his code ASAP. We need a patch! Why didn't he test this before release? I want my money back. This is the last time I buy any software from God Inc.

[Jazzy jeff]

'the entire Catholic church are atheists' - that makes alot of sense, seeing how they worship priests, popes and saints alot more than Jesus Christ and the Bible. And lets not forget Mary, she's a God too, according to the infallibe church. There's only one infallible source, only one true way to know the difference between good and evil - and you rejected it along time ago, you evolutionist pig.

[Zelda_fan]

'the entire Catholic church are atheists' - that makes alot of sense, seeing how they worship priests, popes and saints alot more than Jesus Christ and the Bible. And lets not forget Mary, she's a God too, according to the infallibe church. There's only one infallible source, only one true way to know the difference between good and evil - and you rejected it along time ago, you evolutionist pig.

I don't think you know very much about Catholocism. I have an Uncle who is Catholic and that really isn't how it works.

[saturnotaku]

I don't think you know very much about Catholocism. I have an Uncle who is Catholic and that really isn't how it works.

I'm a Catholic and I know he knows squat about it.

[zakelwe]

Which reminds me of a little-known fact. Back in the late 60's when they landed on the moon for the first time, the scientists who studied the moon knew that comsic dust bombards the moon at a constant rate. So they figured that if the moon had been up there for millions of years, there could be upwards of 10 to 50 feet of this stuff on the surface. So when they designed the lunar lander they put big pods on it so it would just rest on the surface and not sink in. Funny thing is that when they got up there, there was only a 1/4 of an inch of dust on the surface. So they took a 1/4 of an inch and plugged it into their formula and they calculated that the moon is only 6000 years old!!!! I wonder why that didn't make it into any scientific journals. Wow, maybe the Bible isn't just a fairy-tale after all!!!!!!!!


Maybe because that's complete bollocks. :thumbdwn: You didn't even take into account the dust being blown away by the lunar landers rockets never mind some " formula" that never existed apart from in your own mind.

Have another go, try and stop me laughing so much this time ...:D

Regards

Andy

[Zelda_fan]

When are you guys gonna learn that the scientists are going to revise science to try and fit what they believe.


Creationist scientist: "HAHA only a few inches of dust on the moon, that is proof that it is 6000 years old"

Athiest scientist: "The dust was blown away form the lunar landing and since the earth has to be millions of years old, the formula used for the amount of dust must have been incorrect"

This will go back and forth for eternity. I have come to believe that there is really no such thing as truly un-biased science.

[DiscipleDOC]

...This will go back and forth for eternity. I have come to believe that there is really no such thing as truly un-biased science.
QFT.
That's why I love my signature quote so much.

[DonB]

The vatican says to listen to science too.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_sc/vatican_science

[Zelda_fan]

The vatican says to listen to science too.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_sc/vatican_science

read a little further down on that article

But he said science, too, should listen to religion.

[Sazar]

When are you guys gonna learn that the scientists are going to revise science to try and fit what they believe.

Creationist scientist: "HAHA only a few inches of dust on the moon, that is proof that it is 6000 years old"

Athiest scientist: "The dust was blown away form the lunar landing and since the earth has to be millions of years old, the formula used for the amount of dust must have been incorrect"

This will go back and forth for eternity. I have come to believe that there is really no such thing as truly un-biased science.

You are absolutely correct. Not one thing from christian doctrine has EVER been revised or re-interpreted based on facts.

[netviper13]

OK, to address the other question - on the age of the universe itself, the verse which says 'in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth'. The word heaven is a generic term, it can mean the sky or space or the place where God lives. The heaven which he created could be just our galaxy and not the entire universe, this is speculation - I admit it, but it just shows there are different ways of looking at it. I am not as concerned with the age of the universe as I am with the age of the earth. I just wish that people could see past the millions and billions, and dont get me started on carbon-14 which is only accurate back to about 4500 years.

Here's a funny bit of Bible oopsies for you: Genesis 7:20 tells us that the waters of the Great Flood that God used to destroy all humanity rose "fifteen cubits upward...and the mountains were covered". Fifteen cubits is equivalent to approximately 25 feet. You're telling me a 25-foot deep flood covered all the mountains on the Earth?