Catholic Church no longer swears Bible to be all true

[Zelda_fan]

Here's a funny bit of Bible oopsies for you: Genesis 7:20 tells us that the waters of the Great Flood that God used to destroy all humanity rose "fifteen cubits upward...and the mountains were covered". Fifteen cubits is equivalent to approximately 25 feet. You're telling me a 25-foot deep flood covered all the mountains on the Earth?

look, if a being with unlimited power over space and time wanted to do something like that, it is fully within the realm of possibility.

[netviper13]

look, if a being with unlimited power over space and time wanted to do something like that, it is fully within the realm of possibility.

And of course it couldn't be a reference to the large local flooding that nearly all archaeologists agree occurred at that period in history. It makes much more sense to attribute it all to a nonsensical statement referring to a mythical being who does illogical things?

At least the primary creation story is fairly consistent, and aside from a 100% literal reading bodes fairly well with scientific evidence; this one is just too far out there for me.

Here is something that, to me, is much more likely:

Genesis 7:12 says that the rains lasted forty days and Genesis 7:19 says that the flood was on earth for forty days. Then, Genesis 8:6 says that forty days passed and Noah opened the window of the ark so that he could release the birds. Although all three forty-day periods could be one and the same, in context they appear to be sequential periods. Interestingly, three periods of forty days adds up to 120 days, the length of the Egyptian flood season in the solar calendar

[Zelda_fan]

And of course it couldn't be a reference to the large local flooding that nearly all archaeologists agree occurred at that period in history. It makes much more sense to attribute it all to a nonsensical statement referring to a mythical being who does illogical things?

At least the primary creation story is fairly consistent, and aside from a 100% literal reading bodes fairly well with scientific evidence; this one is just too far out there for me.

well if you don't believe in God, then some parts of the Bible are going to be hard to swallow.

[Jazzy jeff]

Here's a funny bit of Bible oopsies for you: Genesis 7:20 tells us that the waters of the Great Flood that God used to destroy all humanity rose "fifteen cubits upward...and the mountains were covered". Fifteen cubits is equivalent to approximately 25 feet. You're telling me a 25-foot deep flood covered all the mountains on the Earth?

If you read some of the newer translations the water covered the mountains by 15 cubits, so the flood was a wee bit bigger than you think, and incidentally, the flood explains the fossil record so much better than those eons of time that we hear so much about.

[zakelwe]

Athiest scientist: "The dust was blown away form the lunar landing and since the earth has to be millions of years old, the formula used for the amount of dust must have been incorrect"
.

I didn't say that at all , I said

a) There was no formula

b) If you were taking measurements of dust depth you certainly would not measure it at the place where a rocket engine has been used above it. You only have to watch the tv pictures of it coming into land to see how much was blown away.

You misquoted me, I was actually being far more dismissive than what you thought I was saying.

Regards

Andy

[zakelwe]

Was the flood fresh water or salt water ? Whichever it was at least salt water or fresh water fishes would die out. This has not happened, therefore no flood.

Regards

Andy

[DaveW]

'the entire Catholic church are atheists' - that makes alot of sense, seeing how they worship priests, popes and saints alot more than Jesus Christ and the Bible. And lets not forget Mary, she's a God too, according to the infallibe church. There's only one infallible source, only one true way to know the difference between good and evil - and you rejected it along time ago, you evolutionist pig.

:lol2:

[DaveW]

look, if a being with unlimited power over space and time wanted to do something like that, it is fully within the realm of possibility.

I don't see how he could cover mountains 29,000 feet about sea level with 25 feet of water. It defies simple mathematics and logic. Transforming water into wine is one thing, but making 2+2 =5? Math isn't something you can just dick around with and interpret how you want. Plus even if he could break the laws of mathematics like that, why would he? Why not just flood the earth with 29,000 feet of water? Instead of going through the extra effort of breaking the fundamental laws of mathematics and then putting them back together again. Maybe God just like to fux with our heads :)

[DiscipleDOC]

well if you don't believe in God, then some parts of the Bible are going to be hard to swallow.
That's why it is pointless to "debate" with non-believers. I like talking about this subject, but some of the newer wannabe atheists here are too hard to deal with.

[Ninjaman09]

:lol2:
OK NOW do you guys see why I flamed him? I mean, COME ON.

[Zelda_fan]

I don't see how he could cover mountains 29,000 feet about sea level with 25 feet of water. It defies simple mathematics and logic. Transforming water into wine is one thing, but making 2+2 =5? Math isn't something you can just dick around with and interpret how you want. Plus even if he could break the laws of mathematics like that, why would he? Why not just flood the earth with 29,000 feet of water? Instead of going through the extra effort of breaking the fundamental laws of mathematics and then putting them back together again. Maybe God just like to fux with our heads :)

no wait I think you are misunderstanding. The water level was said to be 15cubits ABOVE the highest mountain, not 15cubits of water total.

[DaveW]

no wait I think you are misunderstanding. The water level was said to be 15cubits ABOVE the highest mountain, not 15cubits of water total.

Ah okay. I stand corrected.

[Zelda_fan]

Ok I'm going to explain my theory of the flood. You can argue with it if you want, and I don't feel like a long argument over it so I'm just going to state it as is.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

If you read these verses they give evidence to something called a water canopy. Think of it as one very massive large hollow sphere of water that encircled the earth and was suspended in the air (if that is to tough for you just think 1 big cloud). Among other things, it would block out UV rays completely and increase oxygen in the air as well as the atmospheric pressure. This would cause people's lifespan to be much greater pre-flood, and explains why people lived to be 900+ years old before the flood.

When God called the flood, he simply broke the water canopy, and the water came falling down. Since you have literally infinite storage space in the upper atmosphere, that would explain where all the water came from, and it would also explain why there was such a dropoff in lifespan before vs after the flood.

That's what I believe, consider it as you will.

[netviper13]

Ah okay. I stand corrected.

Actually, you don't according to most translations.

The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. (WEB)

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (ASV)

The waters went fifteen cubits higher, till all the mountains were covered. (BBE)

Fifteen cubits upward the waters prevailed; and the mountains were covered. (DBY)

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (KJV)

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail: and the mountains were covered. (WBS)

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (JPS)

fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered; (YLT)

Until I see evidence for 15 cubits above the mountains rather than in total, I'll go with the majority here.

[UDawg]

moans.... This is the most useless thread in a long time.

[Sazar]

That's why it is pointless to "debate" with non-believers. I like talking about this subject, but some of the newer wannabe atheists here are too hard to deal with.

Fwiw, I find these discussions very fascinating.

I am an atheist and there is no hiding that fact but I respect the various religions and I love discussions like these. There will obviously be some retarded comments but on the whole, it does offer a lot of insight into the how and the why, at least on my part.

[Jazzy jeff]

Actually, you don't according to most translations.



Until I see evidence for 15 cubits above the mountains rather than in total, I'll go with the majority here.

19The waters swelled so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; 20the waters swelled above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. NRV

19 And the waters prevailed so mightily upon the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered; 20 the waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. RSV

[Zelda_fan]

Actually, you don't according to most translations.



Until I see evidence for 15 cubits above the mountains rather than in total, I'll go with the majority here.

wow all of a sudden much differently when takeing the verse in context
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

18And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

omg... if you're to stubborn to understand basic english then I'm not even going to attempt to disuade you.

[Sazar]

wow all of a sudden much differently when takeing the verse in context

omg... if you're to stubborn to understand basic english then I'm not even going to attempt to disuade you.

Your quote is the exact same as what net provided. Where is the stubborness?

Jazzy on the other hand provided differents text and they do indeed talk about the hills being covered 15 cubits deep.

[CybrSage]

And of course it couldn't be a reference to the large local flooding that nearly all archaeologists agree occurred at that period in history. It makes much more sense to attribute it all to a nonsensical statement referring to a mythical being who does illogical things?

At least the primary creation story is fairly consistent, and aside from a 100% literal reading bodes fairly well with scientific evidence; this one is just too far out there for me.

Here is something that, to me, is much more likely:

It could also come down to what is meant by "the world". If you asked a Roman about the world, he would have said the world only consisted of Roman lands. The rest of the land was outside the world, and still needed to be conquered and brought into the world.

Dunno if this was prevalent back in the days of Moses though.

[netviper13]

wow all of a sudden much differently when takeing the verse in context


omg... if you're to stubborn to understand basic english then I'm not even going to attempt to disuade you.

Speaking of basic english skills, if you weren't too stubborn to understand basic sentence composition, you would realize that "fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail" is a summation of the events that occured, not a new account of flooding. That much is very clear from the context. Really, nice try though.

And while we're on the subject of basic english, it is generally not wise to criticize someone's use of language when you use improper capitalization and punctuation. Kettle to pot, over. ;)

[netviper13]

It could also come down to what is meant by "the world". If you asked a Roman about the world, he would have said the world only consisted of Roman lands. The rest of the land was outside the world, and still needed to be conquered and brought into the world.

Dunno if this was prevalent back in the days of Moses though.

I can definitely see that. To a people not aware of the existence of land masses other than their own, a large local flood would likely seem to be one that covered the entire world.

[CybrSage]

I can definitely see that. To a people not aware of the existence of land masses other than their own, a large local flood would likely seem to be one that covered the entire world.


And would not be a lie either, depending on the definition of the words used, using the definitions of that age.

[Sazar]

It could also come down to what is meant by "the world". If you asked a Roman about the world, he would have said the world only consisted of Roman lands. The rest of the land was outside the world, and still needed to be conquered and brought into the world.

Dunno if this was prevalent back in the days of Moses though.

The world according the romans was not defined as you put it. They were very open and understanding on un-conquered lands, which is why they were so successful for so long.

Other peoples very well could have perceived it as such and this is the strongest argument in favor of the Noah flood story. However, the fact parallel's between Gilgamesh and Noah's story leads to a very strong correlation and one that ultimately leads, in my mind, to the liklihood that the Noah story evolved from Gilgamesh's.

The world, in this case the sea basin pre-flood, would have been a very good candidate for the "world" since it was not only enclosed but also seemed relatively self-sufficient. Flooding of this basin would undoubtedly have been akin to flooding the "world" for those people.

[CybrSage]

Other peoples very well could have perceived it as such and this is the strongest argument in favor of the Noah flood story. However, the fact parallel's between Gilgamesh and Noah's story leads to a very strong correlation and one that ultimately leads, in my mind, to the liklihood that the Noah story evolved from Gilgamesh's.

If the Judeo-Christian religion is true (which I believe) then the Gilgamesh story would have evolved from Noah's story.

Gilgamesh's story was in written form longer, but the Jewish story would have been in verbal form longer.

There is really no way of knowing which came first, since both are from so darn long ago.