Catholic Church no longer swears Bible to be all true

[Sazar]

Seeing as how the Noah story is an amalgamation of other stories, primarily the Gilgamesh flood story, it should be the other way round, the Gilgamesh story would have come first since the Noah story is obviously made up of elements from it and other local stories.

[CybrSage]

Seeing as how the Noah story is an amalgamation of other stories, primarily the Gilgamesh flood story, it should be the other way round, the Gilgamesh story would have come first since the Noah story is obviously made up of elements from it and other local stories.


In your opinion. AFAIK, there is no proof to support your claim. I could be wrong, archiology is not my forte.

[Zelda_fan]

Speaking of basic english skills, if you weren't too stubborn to understand basic sentence composition, you would realize that "fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail" is a summation of the events that occured, not a new account of flooding. That much is very clear from the context. Really, nice try though.

And while we're on the subject of basic english, it is generally not wise to criticize someone's use of language when you use improper capitalization and punctuation. Kettle to pot, over. ;)

first it says that the water covered the mountains. Then it says that the water scaled upward 15 cubits above that. People like you prove DD's signature 100% correct.

[netviper13]

first it says that the water covered the mountains. Then it says that the water scaled upward 15 cubits above that. People like you prove DD's signature 100% correct.

See that's interesting, because according to the scripture you quoted above, the word mountain is not mentioned until after the figure of fifteen cubits is given. The fool may say in his heart "no God", but at least he knows how to RTFM.

[Zelda_fan]

See that's interesting, because according to the scripture you quoted above, the word mountain is not mentioned until after the figure of fifteen cubits is given. The fool may say in his heart "no God", but at least he knows how to RTFM.

You ever heard of useing your brain and reading between the lines?

[netviper13]

You ever heard of useing your brain and reading between the lines?

There is no indication that it should be required. It is quite clear the author is explicitly spelling out the stages of flooding, as it increased from a mere nuissance to much more disastrous proportions. You have far too little wit and patience to play this game, particularly when there is so much anthropological evidence on the other side. And for an added bit to chew on, reading between the lines often means reading something into the text that was never there to begin with.

[Zelda_fan]

There is no indication that it should be required. It is quite clear the author is explicitly spelling out the stages of flooding, as it increased from a mere nuissance to much more disastrous proportions. You have far too little wit and patience to play this game, particularly when there is so much anthropological evidence on the other side. And for an added bit to chew on, reading between the lines often means reading something into the text that was never there to begin with.

You honestly think that the person who wrote Genesis meant "it covered all the mountains in the world, but it only rained for 26 feet." You HONESTLY think that an educated person would write that statement and nod his head and be like "yeah, that's how it happened"

[Sazar]

In your opinion. AFAIK, there is no proof to support your claim. I could be wrong, archiology is not my forte.

I am going simply on the basis that a lot of stories of the time are combined into the Noah story, by consequence I hypothesize it came about after the various stories which share a common thread combined into the Noah story. This is a very common occurence in ancient history.

For something like this, I would not base it on opinion alone.

[Sazar]

You honestly think that the person who wrote Genesis meant "it covered all the mountains in the world, but it only rained for 26 feet." You HONESTLY think that an educated person would write that statement and nod his head and be like "yeah, that's how it happened"

There is a big difference between an educated person from then and one from now. As such a big grain of salt should be taken.

[CybrSage]

I am going simply on the basis that a lot of stories of the time are combined into the Noah story, by consequence I hypothesize it came about after the various stories which share a common thread combined into the Noah story. This is a very common occurence in ancient history.

For something like this, I would not base it on opinion alone.

I look at it more along the lines of the other stories are all the parts of the Noah story, with embellishment, that were remembered as the people spit apart again.

[zakelwe]

Like I said before, the mere fact that there are salt water fish that cannot live in fresh water and fresh water fish that cannot live in salt water means that one of those two group of species should be extinct by now if the flood happened because the flood has to be either fresh water or salt water.

Rather than that argument though I like the thought that 1 inch of rain means roughly 5 inches of snow and therefore because we know more than the ancient writer of Noah we can amuse ourselves with how much snow fell in artic regions during the flood. Assuming the rain covered mt Everest which is 29 000 feet we would have to have 29 000 feet x 5 in the artic ... this is 150 000 feet of snow depth or 30 miles !

The amusing thing about this of course is that once God made the waters lower Noah can land on Mt Ararat only to find that he'd have to get straight back into his boat when 150 000 foot depth of snow starts to melt.

Imagine the look on his face .. " oh for heavens sake, not again ! "

Luckily for the Bible writer you didn't have to factor in snow levels because er, the artic didn't exist 4-6000 years ago of course, it was warm all over. Polar bears were hairless for instance .. oh yes.

Regards

Andy

[DaveW]

Like I said before, the mere fact that there are salt water fish that cannot live in fresh water and fresh water fish that cannot live in salt water means that one of those two group of species should be extinct by now if the flood happened because the flood has to be either fresh water or salt water.

Well if God can turn water into wine, he could probably turn water into salt water as it entered each salt water fishes gills. I don't think its that tough for God to do.

The numbers problem on the other hand just doesn't make sense, even for God.

[zakelwe]

Well if God can turn water into wine, he could probably turn water into salt water as it entered each salt water fishes gills. I don't think its that tough for God to do.



Yes but he could more easily just kill everyone apart from Noah's family. After all the rest of the Bible is full of God just killing people , ie the first born of the Egyptians in Exodus.


Regards

Andy

[DaveW]

Yes but he could more easily just kill everyone apart from Noah's family. After all the rest of the Bible is full of God just killing people , ie the first born of the Egyptians in Exodus.


Regards

Andy

Yeah true... the whole "great flood" thing was just showing off.

[DaveW]

dupe post

[Jazzy jeff]

Like I said before, the mere fact that there are salt water fish that cannot live in fresh water and fresh water fish that cannot live in salt water means that one of those two group of species should be extinct by now if the flood happened because the flood has to be either fresh water or salt water.

Rather than that argument though I like the thought that 1 inch of rain means roughly 5 inches of snow and therefore because we know more than the ancient writer of Noah we can amuse ourselves with how much snow fell in artic regions during the flood. Assuming the rain covered mt Everest which is 29 000 feet we would have to have 29 000 feet x 5 in the artic ... this is 150 000 feet of snow depth or 30 miles !

The amusing thing about this of course is that once God made the waters lower Noah can land on Mt Ararat only to find that he'd have to get straight back into his boat when 150 000 foot depth of snow starts to melt.

Imagine the look on his face .. " oh for heavens sake, not again ! "

Luckily for the Bible writer you didn't have to factor in snow levels because er, the artic didn't exist 4-6000 years ago of course, it was warm all over. Polar bears were hairless for instance .. oh yes.

Regards

Andy

People who study the Bible just to pick it apart are pathetic. We dont know what the world was like before the flood, or whether Mt. Everest even existed back then. The flood caused a great upheavel of nature, who knows what the highest mountain was back then. I could be like the brain-washed masses and say 'oh yes, the world is 4.5 billion years old - at least thats what my sciece teacher taught me, and a pagen evolutionist could never be wrong'.

[DaveW]

People who study the Bible just to pick it apart are pathetic.

Kind of like people who study evolution just to pick it apart huh?

[UDawg]

Kind of like people who study evolution just to pick it apart huh?
Wait a minute, we can't study evolution to find out if it is true? I invite you to study the bible to pick it apart. The problem is your lack of knowledge leads you to uninformed conclusions. That's ok bucause you just need to study it more. ;)

[DaveW]

Wait a minute, we can't study evolution to find out if it is true? I invite you to study the bible to pick it apart. The problem is your lack of knowledge leads you to uninformed conclusions. That's ok bucause you just need to study it more. ;)

Actually I go to a bi-weekly Bible study with my wife. :)

Theres a difference between learning about a subject with an open mind even if you still disagree, than there is going into it with your mind already made up, just to look for holes.

[UDawg]

Actually I go to a bi-weekly Bible study with my wife. :)

Theres a difference between learning about a subject with an open mind even if you still disagree, than there is going into it with your mind already made up, just to look for holes.
Exactly. ;) That was his point. He wasn't as eloquent as you were. ;)

[Peoples-Agent]

Actually I go to a bi-weekly Bible study with my wife. :)

Theres a difference between learning about a subject with an open mind even if you still disagree, than there is going into it with your mind already made up, just to look for holes.

There is so much to learn from that great book, like in philosophy, it's the messages you find that count. Infact, it was a brief read of the Bible at school in RE that drove me to get laid for the first time. Can't recall which part it was , but that is the truth. :D
However it guides you, is down to the individual and like anything questionable, it was man made afterall. Does make for interesting reading though.

[zakelwe]

People who study the Bible just to pick it apart are pathetic. We dont know what the world was like before the flood, or whether Mt. Everest even existed back then. The flood caused a great upheavel of nature, who knows what the highest mountain was back then. I could be like the brain-washed masses and say 'oh yes, the world is 4.5 billion years old - at least thats what my sciece teacher taught me, and a pagen evolutionist could never be wrong'.

Well, ok, take Mt Ararat then, assume that was the highest mountain thats still 17 000 feet and still 85 000 feet of snowfall.

I read the Bible becauwse it's a pretty interesting book, it's just the brainwashed masses who don't like to put much thought in and take it all literally I like to pick apart.

The problem with people who take the Bible literally is that they then have to split science into 3 distinct classes

a) Science that contradicts the Bible
b) Science that supports the Bible
c) Science that is not related to the Bible.

Now for me all 3 can either be wrong or right, whether it is connected to the Bible or not or contradicts or supports it is not a definition on whether that science is right or wrong. For instance to me Cold Fusion aka Pons and Fleischman is wrong or bad science, quantum mechanics is good science. However, people who take the Bible literally put all of a) into bad science, all of b) into good science and then they can pick and choose c) as good or bad.

So that's a severe limitation. It really annoys me that you people cherry pick your science like that on the basis of a one non-scientific irrational belief. What a bedrock to select whether science is good or bad !

Regards

Andy

[Jazzy jeff]

Actually I go to a bi-weekly Bible study with my wife. :)

Theres a difference between learning about a subject with an open mind even if you still disagree, than there is going into it with your mind already made up, just to look for holes.

The British are the cause of all our problems, Darwin wasn't even American.

[CybrSage]

There is so much to learn from that great book, like in philosophy, it's the messages you find that count. Infact, it was a brief read of the Bible at school in RE that drove me to get laid for the first time. Can't recall which part it was , but that is the truth. :D

Could have been Song of Solomon. It is a love story.

However it guides you, is down to the individual and like anything questionable, it was man made afterall. Does make for interesting reading though.

Are you saying the Bible is man made? Man scribed, but God spoken, is the correct way of saying it.

[Slybri]

I was educated by nuns and Jesuit priests growing up in catholic schools.
They taught me that what's important about the Bible is the meaning and lessons of Jesus, not the stories that contain them. These stories have been re-written, edited, translated, and changed by many kings and countryies over 2 millenia.
Most of those stories were exaggerated to make them more exciting and easier to understand for the mostly illiterate and simple people ancient times. You want people to come see your movie, you gotta have special effects, right? Same with getting people to join your religion.
For example, the Parting of the Red Sea. The Isrealites crossed the swampy area on foot during low tide. When the Egyptians followed several days later, the tide had risen, Egyptian horses became stuck in the mud, and the area had become flooded and unpassable. Thus the Isrealites escaped thanks to nature and God.
Another example, The Multiplication of Loaves. Some people in the crowd are too poor to have food, some are rich and bring more than they need. Jesus asks one of them to share what food she brought. By his example, those in the crowd who had lots of food stashed away shared it with the poor. Thus there was plenty for everybody.
It's the lesson that matters, not the magic. That stuff's for the lil kids.