Catholic Church no longer swears Bible to be all true

[Ghosthunter]

Here I disagree. The words "under god" were never part of original pledge. They were inserted and now there is an outcry when words that were never part of the original are asked to be removed.

This is absurd only so far as people having short memories and no inkling of history. A religious groups' efforts in getting a change made has turned into suggestions that ATHEISTS now are forcing things down the throats of christians :)

Funny how that works.


You are right it was not part of the original words.

I guess for myself I look at it this way, if I dont believe in God, when i say the pledge I just wont say those words. as long as I am not forced to say it.

if I am forced then I guess then yeah that is wrong.

[Shamrock]

These other channels espouse atheism? They advocate it?

No?

Ok then.

actually, your answer is: Yep....ESPECIALLY Playboy, Spice, ABC/Disney, and MTV family of networks. They promote gays.

And whenever some celebrity or athlete wants to thank God for some skill or talent they have, they jerk the mic away or ask the same question in a different manner. 2 instances...remember Evander Holyfield winning the titles from Mike Tyson? All Evander could do was thank God and stuff. The reporter asked a different question that would require the same answer. Evander did the same thing....then the reporter pulled the mic away, and Evander grabbed his hand, and finished what he had to say.

Other instance: Dave Reutiman wins a Craftsman Truck Series race, and does the same thing, thanking God...what does the reporter do? he pulls the mic away and asks how the truck handled :rolleyes:

Is it because they dont want to hear it? hmm...it sure isnt against any FCC law

[Shamrock]

show me how people are not tolerant to Christian beliefs? Are you able to go to Church when you want to? Is anyone stopping you from praying and worshipping how you please?

As a matter of fact, YES! Christians cannot pray in public anymore. People are being put in jail for gathering around flagpoles. Children are getting suspended from school, for praying around flagpoles before classes and at lunch, not disturbing classes or anything, but BEFORE CLASS & AT LUNCH time! Christians cannot leave class to go pray, but Muslims can...5 times a day!

Even in NASCAR, they used to pray before the race. They still do it, but while the preacher prays, the jets fly over and you can hear NOTHING what he says! That isnt the timing of the jets, its the timing of the producers saying when the jets should go over.

Even here in "Smallville" KY, kids cant pray around the flag anymore, because they get suspended.

Also, the schoolbooks now teach Evolution and even Islamic and Buhdist beliefs, but you cant teach Christianity. Recently Texas started putting in their textbooks, that Evolution was a "THEORY" of creation, not a belief, and the Feds made them stop it.

So you tell me...IS anyone stopping us on how and where we can pray? You betcha

[Sazar]

actually, your answer is: Yep....ESPECIALLY Playboy, Spice, ABC/Disney, and MTV family of networks. They promote gays.

Are you saying there are no gay christians?

There are plenty of personalities on those channels (I don't get spice or playboy so I can't vouch for them) that are overtly religious in their mannerisms and their speech.

On the flip side, I don't see anyone saying atheism is the only way to be. So to reply once again, you are wrong.

You are entitled to your belief but there is nothing to backup what you are saying.

And whenever some celebrity or athlete wants to thank God for some skill or talent they have, they jerk the mic away or ask the same question in a different manner. 2 instances...remember Evander Holyfield winning the titles from Mike Tyson? All Evander could do was thank God and stuff. The reporter asked a different question that would require the same answer. Evander did the same thing....then the reporter pulled the mic away, and Evander grabbed his hand, and finished what he had to say.

This is somehow a systematic slapdown of christianity? I see far more overt religious symbols and actions from celebrities than anything else, other than self-promotion. And I don't see any overt actions saying there is no god and therefore ahteism is the only thing for everyone.

Other instance: Dave Reutiman wins a Craftsman Truck Series race, and does the same thing, thanking God...what does the reporter do? he pulls the mic away and asks how the truck handled :rolleyes:

I don't watch truck racing so I can't comment.

Is it because they dont want to hear it? hmm...it sure isnt against any FCC law

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that its a sports activity and they are asking sports related questions and they all have a certain amount of time? I dunno, thats just my thinking.

I have not seen a single instance of someone knocking down on a celebrity because of their religious declarations during an interview on any channel I watch, and I watch a lot of sports shows.

[Shamrock]

We are secular nation, btw you mention Thomas Jefferson he was the one who started the phrase and also was a deist, not a Christian. he might have went to Church but he definitely did not accept the bible.


Let me ask how many times is God in the constitution?


Here is the problem with religion in general in school.

If you want to teach religion in school which religion? If you are Christian would you want your children learning the Muslim religion?

Who gets to pick what religion? If you say well majority of country is Christian, well what happens when one day majority is something other then Christian?


Personally I rather keep all religion out of school, because to me religion is a personal issue and should not be dealt with in public life. You are free to practice any religion you want, just dont force it on the rest of us.


The word God? none, but how about this one, Article VII

Article. VII.
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names

We are secular nation, btw you mention Thomas Jefferson he was the one who started the phrase and also was a deist, not a Christian. he might have went to Church but he definitely did not accept the bible.
What about your first President, George Washington? He was a bigtime Christian...just something to think about. Also, isnt God's name written clearly on our currency? Seperation from church & state isnt in the Constitution. , either.

Read James Madison's view on the First Amendment (he wrote it)
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/cs/blcs_txt_MadisonMR.htm (it was a response to Patrick Henry's bill to collect taxes from Churches)

the song "taps" bugled from the military is a prayer put to music.
Here is a line of the song "Star Spangled Banner" our OFFICIAL theme song
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!

[Shamrock]

Are you saying there are no gay christians?

There are plenty of personalities on those channels (I don't get spice or playboy so I can't vouch for them) that are overtly religious in their mannerisms and their speech.

On the flip side, I don't see anyone saying atheism is the only way to be. So to reply once again, you are wrong.

You are entitled to your belief but there is nothing to backup what you are saying.



This is somehow a systematic slapdown of christianity? I see far more overt religious symbols and actions from celebrities than anything else, other than self-promotion. And I don't see any overt actions saying there is no god and therefore ahteism is the only thing for everyone.



I don't watch truck racing so I can't comment.



Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that its a sports activity and they are asking sports related questions and they all have a certain amount of time? I dunno, thats just my thinking.

I have not seen a single instance of someone knocking down on a celebrity because of their religious declarations during an interview on any channel I watch, and I watch a lot of sports shows.


"TRUE" Christians? Yes I am saying that. If they truly believed in God, they wouldnt be gay, since it's an abomination.

They might not knock them down about their beliefs, but they wont let them speak about it either.

[Sazar]

"TRUE" Christians? Yes I am saying that. If they truly believed in God, they wouldnt be gay, since it's an abomination.

They might not knock them down about their beliefs, but they wont let them speak about it either.

Ok, so you say they are not true christians. Now showing programming that depicts homosexuality, in your view, denotes that atheism is being spread?

On a separate note, the lack of tolerance for different types of people within a religion, and this is not just christianity, islam is the same way, is one of the key things that disappoints me about organized religion.

[UDawg]

[QUOTE]We are secular nation, btw you mention Thomas Jefferson he was the one who started the phrase and also was a deist, not a Christian. he might have went to Church but he definitely did not accept the bible.

First off we are not a secular country. We are very much a Christian country just as Mexico is a Catholic country or Iraq is a Muslim country. What we have is a secular government.

When Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists he was talking about a wall of seperation between the government and and the church. He did not want government controling the church as was done with the Church of England. This is very clear in his writting.

The fact that Jefferson was not a practicing Christian has nothing to do with the fact that he wrote about and saw the inherant value of Christianity in the United States. This is backed up by him funding Catholic priest for converting indians and his holding church services in the capital building.

Let me ask how many times is God in the constitution?

This has nothing to do with it. It says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;. Again they did not want government controling the churches. There was a huge debate about this because they were affraid of a Church of England type of set up in the States. So the fact that God is not mentioned in the constitution was done so with a specific intent. Anyway nice try at trying to trip me up with this question, I know the difference between the Deleration and the Constitution. Now WRT to the decleration it shows another piece of writting on our founders thoughts wrt to God and where our values and rights come from.

Here is the problem with religion in general in school.

If you want to teach religion in school which religion? If you are Christian would you want your children learning the Muslim religion?
You can teach all the religions. My point is why tell people they can't pray in school?
Who gets to pick what religion? If you say well majority of country is Christian, well what happens when one day majority is something other then Christian?
You can teach all the religions. My point is why tell people they can't pray in school?


Personally I rather keep all religion out of school, because to me religion is a personal issue and should not be dealt with in public life. You are free to practice any religion you want, just dont force it on the rest of us.
Nobody if forcing anything on you. I hate it when you guys say this. Since it is your side that is trying to force religion out via the courts.

[AlphaWolf_HK]

PAX isnt a Christian channel, they are a "family oriented" channel. And it's the secular list...I just looked on my DSS description, and they show things like "game shows, off network favorites, movies and specials for the whole family" But in the end, it's far from Christian station, such as CBN

Have you ever WATCHED that channel? Seriously, they have regular televangelists on there. Guthy-Renker, James Robison, Zola Levitt...Not to mention a program about "international fellowship of christians and jews"

I swear to you that it has to be the most boring network ever, aside from TBN which is not only boring but stupid.

[Shamrock]

Yes, I've watched it...ABC Family also has evangelists and such, but is owned by ABC...a secular and gay promotion network. I also can say it's pretty boring. Today they had college football on PAX...the players cussing up a storm cause they were losing.

[sytaylor]

LOL I reject your notion that the promotion of my faith is a bad thing. Seconly, roll modeling is much more effecitve a way of promoting a idea. You can even do it with out actually thinking about promoting it. Actions speek louder than words. So it is a promotion.

Neither belief system is favoured over the other. By and large the majority of people in the USA describe themselves as christian. The TV channels are simply not picking one faith because as an entity they are "faithless", much like businesses are "apolotical". Sometimes that clearly isn't the case, but the majority of the time within a given organisation there will be many faiths represented. Why your faith gets to be so special I'm not quite sure.

[sytaylor]

actually, your answer is: Yep....ESPECIALLY Playboy, Spice, ABC/Disney, and MTV family of networks. They promote gays.

And whenever some celebrity or athlete wants to thank God for some skill or talent they have, they jerk the mic away or ask the same question in a different manner. 2 instances...remember Evander Holyfield winning the titles from Mike Tyson? All Evander could do was thank God and stuff. The reporter asked a different question that would require the same answer. Evander did the same thing....then the reporter pulled the mic away, and Evander grabbed his hand, and finished what he had to say.

Other instance: Dave Reutiman wins a Craftsman Truck Series race, and does the same thing, thanking God...what does the reporter do? he pulls the mic away and asks how the truck handled :rolleyes:

Is it because they dont want to hear it? hmm...it sure isnt against any FCC law

First thing any American actor does when they win an award at an award show? They thank God, even the rappers do it. It's the stock first, second, or thrid thankyou in a thankyou speech. So don't gimmie that crap. If anything in the USA there is an assumption[b/] of christianity, and now that varied cultures are beginning to bring that into question its strange to see people object to it. Take here for example, thanking God is quite rare, nobody thinks badly of it, but it will raise eyebrows because faith is much more personal here. I'm not saying thats a good thing, but it is possible to not have to pomote something above [b]everything else for it to continue.

[sytaylor]

a secular and gay promotion network.

Thats the craziest thing ever... and quite amusing. So what does that make the BBC, since it is run (via charter) by the british government?

[Ghosthunter]

As a matter of fact, YES! Christians cannot pray in public anymore. People are being put in jail for gathering around flagpoles. Children are getting suspended from school, for praying around flagpoles before classes and at lunch, not disturbing classes or anything, but BEFORE CLASS & AT LUNCH time! Christians cannot leave class to go pray, but Muslims can...5 times a day!

Even in NASCAR, they used to pray before the race. They still do it, but while the preacher prays, the jets fly over and you can hear NOTHING what he says! That isnt the timing of the jets, its the timing of the producers saying when the jets should go over.

Even here in "Smallville" KY, kids cant pray around the flag anymore, because they get suspended.

Also, the schoolbooks now teach Evolution and even Islamic and Buhdist beliefs, but you cant teach Christianity. Recently Texas started putting in their textbooks, that Evolution was a "THEORY" of creation, not a belief, and the Feds made them stop it.

So you tell me...IS anyone stopping us on how and where we can pray? You betcha


I never even heard of half the things you mentioned.


If people want to pray in school just say it silently? You dont have to say it out loud do it in your head.

[Ghosthunter]

The word God? none, but how about this one, Article VII



What about your first President, George Washington? He was a bigtime Christian...just something to think about. Also, isnt God's name written clearly on our currency? Seperation from church & state isnt in the Constitution. , either.

Read James Madison's view on the First Amendment (he wrote it)
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/cs/blcs_txt_MadisonMR.htm (it was a response to Patrick Henry's bill to collect taxes from Churches)

the song "taps" bugled from the military is a prayer put to music.
Here is a line of the song "Star Spangled Banner" our OFFICIAL theme song



Just because our President was Christian does not mean we are a Christian nation.



Our forefathers also had slaves, does that make it right? Everything they did was not 100% perfect.

[Ghosthunter]

Ok, so you say they are not true christians. Now showing programming that depicts homosexuality, in your view, denotes that atheism is being spread?

On a separate note, the lack of tolerance for different types of people within a religion, and this is not just christianity, islam is the same way, is one of the key things that disappoints me about organized religion.


I totally agree and one big reason why I believe organized religions were just created to control men.


I am also against legislating morality like prohibiton in the 20's

I hope we never end up like Kuwait and other Middle east countries where you are not allowed to drink and view pornogrpahy

[Sazar]

Yes, I've watched it...ABC Family also has evangelists and such, but is owned by ABC...a secular and gay promotion network. I also can say it's pretty boring. Today they had college football on PAX...the players cussing up a storm cause they were losing.

I assume the 700 club is thought of as a terrorist organisation, much like Al-Jazeera, then?

No need to answer, I am just making stretch insinuations.

[Ghosthunter]

I assume the 700 club is thought of as a terrorist organisation, much like Al-Jazeera, then?

No need to answer, I am just making stretch insinuations.



LOL...



I never understood if people are not happy with what TV's are showing then simple turn the channel or turn off the TV

[DonB]

This is an interesting thread. A few thoughts on the original post.

The Catholic church reads and teaches the entire Bible in a three year structured cycle. Some portions are repeated yearly due to their importance in the Christian faith of an individual. The Catholic church teaches that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Some parts of it are taken quite literally; "This is my body" is an example that quickly comes to mind. Most parts though are seen in a broader context; the revelation of God to people and the best way to live one's life for the betterment of all. This is the main point of the Bible and supporting teachings of the Catholic church. This is how people are being guided so they can grow into all that they are capable of.

The Catholic church teaches that faith is not static. Like a seed that becomes a tree, change must occur or there is no growth. The Christian faith has been growing and changing for about 2000 years now and the Catholic church has a unique long term perspective. There are bright and dark spots throughout the histories of all religions. They are, after all, made up of humans who don't always get things right. But the Spirit of God is alive; both then and now and things are for the most part getting better.

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I assume the 700 club is thought of as a terrorist organisation

Only if creating WMB's is considered terrorism (weapons of mass boredom.)

[Sazar]

Only if creating WMB's is considered terrorism (weapons of mass boredom.)

I was talking more about the rhetoric of Robertson and others.

[Shamrock]

First thing any American actor does when they win an award at an award show? They thank God, even the rappers do it. It's the stock first, second, or thrid thankyou in a thankyou speech. So don't gimmie that crap. If anything in the USA there is an assumption[b/] of christianity, and now that varied cultures are beginning to bring that into question its strange to see people object to it. Take here for example, thanking God is quite rare, nobody thinks badly of it, but it will raise eyebrows because faith is much more personal here. I'm not saying thats a good thing, but it is possible to not have to pomote something above [b]everything else for it to continue.

Most of American actors are either Kabalists or Scientologists, so that was moot. :p

[Shamrock]

I never even heard of half the things you mentioned.


If people want to pray in school just say it silently? You dont have to say it out loud do it in your head.

Why silently? Muslims dont, why should we. That's giving in to tolerance.

[Shamrock]

I assume the 700 club is thought of as a terrorist organisation, much like Al-Jazeera, then?

No need to answer, I am just making stretch insinuations.

No, I dont mind answering...

Could be, cause I dont like Pat Robertson :rofl

[Ghosthunter]

Why silently? Muslims dont, why should we. That's giving in to tolerance.



It been a long time since I been to high school and junior high, I dont recall ever seeing any kids who want to pray muslim or not.

Do kids really want to pray in school?


So you are saying right now muslim kids are allowed to pray but Christians are not? If this is true well then that is wrong of course.



Personally I think they should make it if you really insist on praying then go to a separate room and do it, or pray silently no matter what religion you are, i dont think other people need to know you are praying.



Either that or go to a private school.