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Ninjaman09
10-06-05, 08:46 PM
Well I've had a bit of time to play around with my new G5 and here are my thoughts, itemized for your convenience:

-New material is really comfortable. There's sort of a rough-ish surface covering the mouse that feels really "neat" and it kinda helps reduce hand sweat. Sorta.

-Tracking truly is an improvement over the MX518. Very noticably so, in fact. I was really impressed by this. There is absolutely no need for "mouse smoothing" anymore in games, this is as smooth as it gets!

-The weights are really cool! I prefer a heavier mouse (MX700) but if I ever change my mind I just pop the weight canister out and viola!

-Button arrangement is efficient and superior, in my opinion. I never had any use for a second side button, and the stupid "application switch" button is now gone. The sensitivity adjustment buttons are much easier to use on-the-fly and I actually found myself using them in CS:S when zoomed long-range with the AWP.

-One glaring flaw - the mouse simply does not track on rough or black mousing surfaces! I have a func 1030 pad that I LOVE and it just plain doesn't work on it! On my bare desk, however, it tracks beautifully. Funny enough, it glides better too. :rolleyes:

-The mouse feet are not actually coated in teflon, it's some derivative substance that's supposedly sturdier. It is impressive, the mouse glides better on my bare desk surface than it does on my mousepad!

To sum up, aside from the mouse pad issue, this mouse is FANTASTIC and I would recommend it to anyone looking to buy a new mouse. I haven't used the Razer mouse but frankly I'm not interested - I like Logitech's ergonomics a lot better than Razer's and I don't need a whole load of buttons on my mouse. The $55 price tag vs. the $90 one kind of nudged me in this direction as well. :D

jAkUp
10-06-05, 08:49 PM
Well, my Razer should be here soon. First Razer mouse I have ever owned... so we'll see :D

One sad thing about the G5 is it doesn't work on alot of surfaces :( It will not work on my Icemat Rev2 either! I couldn't live with that :D

Clay
10-06-05, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the G5. :cool:

I'm reviewing the Razer Copperhead right now...something worth noting between it and the G5 is that they are essentially the exact same mouse from a technical standpoint. They both use Agilent Technologies' latest and greatest ADNS-6010 laser sensor (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3122EN.pdf) (PDF).

So, the ergonomics (right hand only for the G5 and symmetry of the Copperhead) are key as you pointed out. Razer will be offering an add-on kit that will include weights for the Copperhead in the near future (supposedly to be around $10).

The price difference you pointed out is also a very key point.

UPDATE: So far, the Razer Copperhead has worked just fine on both light and dark surfaces for me. I've used it on a white artdesk surface as well as on blue and black construction paper. No problems either way.

jAkUp...I would suggest at least upgrading to the latest drivers. There is an additional firmware update as well as some have reported lag issues with the 6.13 firmware that comes with the latest drivers.

jAkUp
10-06-05, 09:26 PM
Yes, there are some Beta Firmware on Razers site. Also there is a fix if you use the Saitek Gamers keyboard...

I have also read that you can adjust the sensitivity without drivers on this mouse! :D

top3koms
10-06-05, 09:33 PM
I have also gotten the G5 and have been very happy with it's function and features thus far.I also have the func 1030 mousepad in black but I have not noticed any tracking problems when using it ,it tracks just as well on it as it does on my desktop.

Clay
10-06-05, 09:35 PM
Yes, there are some Beta Firmware on Razers site. Also there is a fix if you use the Saitek Gamers keyboard...

I have also read that you can adjust the sensitivity without drivers on this mouse! :DI must have missed the fix for use with the Saitek Gamers keyboard (which I have). Is that mentioned in the driver notes? I'll have to check out adjusting the sensitivity without the drivers.

Ninjaman09
10-06-05, 09:52 PM
Clay, I didn't know the sensor was the same in both mice - thanks for that bit of info. I wanted to add something to my comments about the surface functionality, as well. It seems as though the surface's texture is the primary factor when determining how well the mouse will track, not the color. I used a black page in a magazine as a pad and the mouse worked perfectly fine. I used both rough and smooth surfaces on the func pad and it seemed to track much better on the smooth surface, but still ran into tracking problems when making fast movements on lower sensitivities. Oddly enough my desk surface (stained wood) is not all that smooth but it tracks perfectly. Maybe the func pad is more reflective or something? I dunno. Anyway I'll probably grab some cheapo 3M pad soon or something. :D

Clay
10-06-05, 10:16 PM
No problem. It is an important fact that a lot of people seem to be unaware of. Logitech had an exclusive license on Agilent Technologies' laser sensors but that has since expired so other vendors (like Razer in this case) can now utilize it.

jAkUp
10-06-05, 10:19 PM
The Copperhead is here! I'm using it right now. Holy crap is this thing sensitive!! lol Gonna take some getting used to.

From what I hear the Razer has a 2000Hz polling rate.. and Logitech is lower I believe.

Clay, here are the files!

[QUOTE=jAkUp]Make sure you use this latest Firmware for your mouse, (released today)
http://www.razerzone.com/copperhead/

And, if you are using a Saitek Eclipse keyboard, here is a fix for a fix for a compatibility problem:
ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/support/GamersK.zip

Clay
10-06-05, 10:35 PM
The Copperhead is here! I'm using it right now. Holy crap is this thing sensitive!! lol Gonna take some getting used to.

From what I hear the Razer has a 2000Hz polling rate.. and Logitech is lower I believe.

Clay, here are the files!

Thanks for the links jAkUp! :thumbsup: I do have that keyboard although I've not noticed any problems with it and my Copperhead so far.

It has "up to" a 1,000Hz polling rate. The 2,000 value you're referring to is the cpi. You can customize both it and the polling rate.

Absolution
10-06-05, 10:40 PM
im staying away from all razor mouse's because what ive heard is they are really inacurate from a lot of people

even tomshardware says so... but then again do we trust toms hardware?.... (lately seems to me that the only thing that is good and can be trusted are the networkign reviews...)

Clay
10-06-05, 10:50 PM
im staying away from all razor mouse's because what ive heard is they are really inacurate from a lot of people

even tomshardware says so... but then again do we trust toms hardware?.... (lately seems to me that the only thing that is good and can be trusted are the networkign reviews...)Mice are such subjective things (probably THE most subjective piece of hardware we junkies own). I always try to actually use a mouse that I'm thinking about buying (or at least get the feel of one on display somewhere).

I never had any accuracy problems with my Diamondback and so far so good with this Diamondback as well. Again, most mice use the exact same Agilent sensors anyway so it doesn't really make sense to say that mouse "A" is more/less accurate than mouse "B". The only real differences are just superficial. Drivers come into play here as well of course but I usually used my Diamondback without the drivers installed.

jAkUp
10-06-05, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the links jAkUp! :thumbsup: I do have that keyboard although I've not noticed any problems with it and my Copperhead so far.

It has "up to" a 1,000Hz polling rate. The 2,000 value you're referring to is the cpi. You can customize both it and the polling rate.

I do not believe the Logitech has a 1000 polling rate though... I just installed the drivers though, why is it set to 500 by default?

Ninjaman09
10-06-05, 10:59 PM
I thought it was 500 for both of 'em. Whatever, I'm not concerned about it. I really don't think it could any smoother than it is. :D

Clay
10-06-05, 11:08 PM
I do not believe the Logitech has a 1000 polling rate though... I just installed the drivers though, why is it set to 500 by default?
Did you have this sheet in your Copperhead box?

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/clay/note.jpg

Clay
10-06-05, 11:10 PM
I thought it was 500 for both of 'em. Whatever, I'm not concerned about it. I really don't think it could any smoother than it is. :DI do think there is a point past 500 for the polling rate that most people won't be able to detect any difference. Check out that note I just posted above as well. When you get to 1,000Hz you can also increase CPU cycles according to a few different sources that I've read in the past. I can't really confirm that specifically though.

jAkUp
10-06-05, 11:24 PM
What settings are you using Clay?

I have my mouse up and running... 2000DPI and 500Hz. This mouse is wayyy smoother than my mx518. I also had to turn down the senstivity in games because it was way to sensitive also..lol

Anyways, my first game of FEAR was kinda weird for the first 2 minutes, then after that I was totall pwning. Like I never have before! Serious. Dunno if it was the mouse or what. Came in half way through the match and got second place. wowz :D

Ninjaman09
10-06-05, 11:31 PM
I do think there is a point past 500 for the polling rate that most people won't be able to detect any difference. Check out that note I just posted above as well. When you get to 1,000Hz you can also increase CPU cycles according to a few different sources that I've read in the past. I can't really confirm that specifically though.
Yeah I'm pretty satisfied with how it is, I don't think I'm gonna mess with it. :)
I have my mouse up and running... 2000DPI and 500Hz. This mouse is wayyy smoother than my mx518. I also had to turn down the senstivity in games because it was way to sensitive also..lol
I really am shocked at how much smoother this mouse is than the MX518! It's like transitioning from a ball mouse to optical. I bought this thing just for the sake of it but now I'm very pleased with my purchase! :D

Clay
10-06-05, 11:45 PM
What settings are you using Clay?

I have my mouse up and running... 2000DPI and 500Hz. This mouse is wayyy smoother than my mx518. I also had to turn down the senstivity in games because it was way to sensitive also..lol

Anyways, my first game of FEAR was kinda weird for the first 2 minutes, then after that I was totall pwning. Like I never have before! Serious. Dunno if it was the mouse or what. Came in half way through the match and got second place. wowz :D
I've been using 2000dpi and 500Hz as well. By using the mouse rate checker I never saw it go much higher than 420Hz or so. That tells me that I would need to overclock my USB bus with one of those utils floating around...I'm not to keen on doing that as I can't imagine it being any smoother as it is. :)

Yes, I know what you mean. Back when I got my Diamondback the difference was amazing in games. The difference now with my Copperhead isn't as drastic over the Diamondback but I can tell an improvement. Laser vs. infrared is nice. :D

jAkUp
10-07-05, 12:22 AM
Wow! I was totally pwning!

Clay
10-07-05, 12:25 AM
Wow! I was totally pwning!
Nice!

PaiN
10-07-05, 06:57 AM
All this talk...made me have to have the lastest & greatest :D
I ordered a G5 last night, I'll be using it on an X-trac HS Pro (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817114171) surface
I'll pipe up next week after I play with it a while.

Ninjaman09
10-07-05, 08:14 AM
PaiN, let me know how the mouse tracks on that pad, I was thinking of getting it to replace my fUnc.

Riptide
10-07-05, 09:23 AM
I've used a ratpadz before and while it was excellent - the surface always seemed to wear out quickly. I had to replace it within a few months pretty much constantly.

Is there anything out there that won't do this?

Ninjaman09
10-07-05, 09:34 AM
I've used a ratpadz before and while it was excellent - the surface always seemed to wear out quickly. I had to replace it within a few months pretty much constantly.

Is there anything out there that won't do this?
My fUnc pad never wore out. I'm a little pissed - it was the best mouse pad I ever done seen. If you aren't planning on getting a laser mouse then I'd pick up a fUnc 1030.