7800 Ultra is coming?!!!

[[EOCF] Tim]

Nvidia has told partners at a recent conference in Amsterdam that it won't be dropping its prices on 7800 series boards before Christmas.

It also told them to expect a 7800 'Ultra' with 512MB, very soon.

The Inquirer reports that the man in charge of GPU sales at Nvidia, Roy Taylor, gave a presentation in which he mentioned he doesn't consider ATI to be competition. Yet.

Source : Bit-tech (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/10/14/nvidia_prices/)

But....and now it gets really weird :

The 512MB version of the GTX will be available, sources told us, in December.

Looks like two different cards, 512Mb GTX, and Ultra very soon, as we all know, the 1st of November date has been floating around lately....

So this is not really a rumour...but nVidia saying to expect an Ultra soon....very interesting

[Ninjaman09]

Judging from the wording in the article it seems that the 7800 GTX 512MB and the 7800 "Ultra" they mentioned are one and the same.

[anzak]

All nvidia needs to do is load up the GTX with 512mb of super fast memory to take back the performance crown. No real need to touch the core clock IMO.

Judging from the wording in the article it seems that the 7800 GTX 512MB and the 7800 "Ultra" they mentioned are one and the same.
That makes sense. Ultra being a 512mb version of the GTX.

[Ninjaman09]

I've made it my personal mission to dispel any and all claims that a "7800 Ultra" SKU has ever or will ever exist. :D

[[EOCF] Tim]

Judging from the wording in the article it seems that the 7800 GTX 512MB and the 7800 "Ultra" they mentioned are one and the same.

To the contrary, it says just that....both an Ultra, very soon, and a 512mg GTX in Decemeber (which isn't "soon") ,...well that's what I read... :)

I've made it my personal mission to dispel any and all claims that a "7800 Ultra" SKU has ever or will ever exist. :D

i sure hope that you are wrong :D

[GlowStick]

No, i agree they are one and the same. I woudl say the 1st of november is when partners are going to get ref desgins, thent hey have to start production fast to get them out around december.

When the pr rep said 'ultra' he was just useing it to describe the gtx...

[SH64]

With the recent news of ATi improvement in OpenGL , i'm now 90% sure about that :D

i still think the 7800U might end up with 512MB , enhanced core/mem speeds & perhaps 90nm process tech slated for december release date (i.e. month or less after the X1800XT release ;))

[Ninjaman09]

Tim']To the contrary, it says just that....both an Ultra, very soon, and a 512mg GTX in Decemeber (which isn't "soon") ,...well that's what I read... :)
It certainly never says "both" anywhere, nor is any language used at all to imply that there are two different products being discussed. In the context of the sentences, it seems clear from a grammatical standpoint that they are discussing a single card.
Tim']
i sure hope that you are wrong :D
Why?
i still think the 7800U might end up with 512MB , enhanced core/mem speeds & perhaps 90nm process tech slated for december release date
While there is no doubt that a refresh part will eventually come through the channel, there will never be anything dubbed "7800 Ultra". Ever. Yes, I am 100% sure of that. Read the nVidia GeForce 7 series FAQ if you're wondering how.

[Redeemed]

Why??? The GTX is roughly equivalent to the X1800XT. I see no reason for nVidia to release an Ultra- yet. They shouldn't be worrying about the R520, that is being taken care of by the GTX just fine. It is the R580 that they should be worrying about.

But, I guess if we get a beefier version of the GTX now, dubbed an Ultra, then the R580 competitor will probably be a real beast! Gives me more reason for waiting till my next upgrade! :D :D :D

[Ninjaman09]

Again, they are releasing a 512MB 7800 GTX SKU, nothing more (for now).

[Redeemed]

Yeah, that I can understand. But just all this crap about a "7800 Ultra" is annoying. I mean there is no logical reasoning FOR a 7800 Ultra, no need of any sort. The next high end part wont be till the R580, if we ever even SEE the R580. Why can't people just accept this?

Okay, I'm done. I'll be quite now. :D :D :D

[SH64]

While there is no doubt that a refresh part will eventually come through the channel, there will never be anything dubbed "7800 Ultra". Ever. Yes, I am 100% sure of that. Read the nVidia GeForce 7 series FAQ if you're wondering how.

Allright .. a 7900U/GTX , a 7850U/GTX , a 7950U/GTX or whatever the name .. i sense a refresh with the specs i mentioned is coming soon.

[Ninjaman09]

Heh heh :D
Yeah, that I can understand. But just all this crap about a "7800 Ultra" is annoying. I mean there is no logical reasoning FOR a 7800 Ultra, no need of any sort. The next high end part wont be till the R580, if we ever even SEE the R580. Why can't people just accept this?
Preach on, I don't get it either. Everyone thinks they need to "hold off" for the "real" high-end G70. At this rate the G80 will be out, and they'll still need to "hold off" for the real one. :rolleyes:

[[EOCF] Tim]

I don't think you guys completely understand what this article is saying.....nVidia it self said that an 7800 Ultra is coming, in a meeting, in Amsterdam....now..that is straight from the horses mouth..and you guys are still trying to prove it wrong..?

hence I said, I hope you are wrong...

[Ninjaman09]

Again the key is reading comprehension. The syntax used in the statement clearly indicates that nVidia used the term "Ultra" to describe a 7800 GTX with 512MB of memory.

Additionally I would like to retract my comment that there will "undoubtedly" be a refresh part for the 7800 series SKU. Looking back, historically there have only been TWO GeForce lines that actually had product refreshes, and one of them happened after the next line had already launched. In case you're wondering I'm referring to the GeForce 3 Ti line, which was not available until after the GeForce 4 Ti line launced. The 59xx cards were the only refresh cards nVidia released, and that was to address the obvious design flaws in the 5800. The GeForce 256, GeForce 2, GeForce 4 Ti (the 4800 was not a refresh part), and GeForce 6 series had no refreshes. ATi is the company that does product refreshes regularly (9x00 XT, X850, etc). I am willing to bet the 7800 GTX 512MB is the last SKU for high-end G7x cards we'll see.

Additionally, what more do you want from the 7800 series? Card manufacturers are already providing cards clocked much higher than reference speeds for less than MSRP, and they are the fastest performing cards on the market, bar none. Keep in mind all the X1800 reviews showed 7800 GTs and GTXs at reference clocks, when in reality most manufacturers ship their cards clocked higher (since there is so much headroom). People can get their clocks up to 500/1300 on air with the reference cooler without worrying too much about temperature. Seriously, what is this fascination with this make-believe "7800 Ultra" that was born of the Inquirer, the trash journalism kingpins of the hardware world?

[SH64]

There was likely 2 refreshes just in the FX line besides the GF3/4 .. the 5900U which refreshed the 5800U & addresed it flaws & the 5950U which bumped the 5900U.

the GF6 series didnt introduce a refresh because there was SLI tech in the works .. so nVIDIA instead of releasing a refresh to match/compete the XT-PE-PE , they released a tech that gives 2x the power & blow the competetion away.

so what now ?? i think nVIDIA now figured the importance of 512MB so they have to release a more future proof card , but again just a 512MB GTX wont be attractive esp for the already GTX owners (see how the 6800U 512MB never attracted much attention) so they have to do something to make it more like an appealing refresh product. i reckon for that they are going to increase the speeds , improve the manufacturing process to allow for more speed & less or same temps/power & slap a 512MB RAM on it.

as for the R580 refresh .. nVIDIA dont need to worry about it because if it ever came out it will be available in market before 1 or 2 months of the release of the G80 (8800GTX) esp when we consider ATi's history of paper lanuches.

[Ninjaman09]

Personally I feel a refresh of G70 before G80 would be totally unnecessary. Again the performance is already there and there is plenty of headroom to work with the G70 chips. Not to mention, timeframe must be taken into consideration. At the current rate of GPU releases, we will see G80 sometime next summer. According to what we've read so far, a 512MB 7800 can be expected sometime in November-December. This leaves a product life cycle of what, 6 months? Probably less? And what is its competition? I just don't see the point.

[SH64]

And what is its competition? I just don't see the point.

There is a competition in FEAR (the game with most advanced graphics engine out there) , BF2 , COD2 + some other near future titles ... & if the OpenGL fix worked pretty well for ATi then expect an even serious competition in Quake 4 & upcoming opengl titles.

[Treason]

Did I read it wrong? The nVidia sales rep said he didn't consider ATi competitive?

[Ninjaman09]

There is a competition in FEAR (the game with most advanced graphics engine out there) , BF2 , COD2 & some others + future titles like Oblivion IMO ... & if the OpenGL fix worked pretty well for ATi then expect an even serious competition in Quake 4 & upcoming opengl titles.
Right but for all intents and purposes, most reviewers agree that the extra texture memory was what sealed the deal for the X1800 in these situations. We've got this 512MB card on the way, no doubt about it. But what more after that? And again, like I said, not only were the X1800's advantages quite marginal, they were against a reference-clocked 7800 GTX, and we all know that the 7800 scales very well as the clocks go up.

[walterman]

I'm seriously thinking in getting the ATI card.

The pros:
G70 -> DooM3 / SLI on nforce4 / Single Slot / 24 pipes design
R520 -> FSAA on render targets / 512MB / 1.5 GHz RAM / 16 ROPs @ 625 MHz

The cons:
G70 -> 16 ROPs @ 430 Mhz / 1.2 GHz RAM / 256MB / NO FSAA on render targets
R520 -> Inferior DooM3 perf / NO SLI on nforce4 / Dual Slot / Price / 16 pipes design

I want FSAA on render targets. There're a lot of games that doesn't support FSAA without a modification to the game rendering engine that may run on ATI hw. & People who can pay >$500 in a card, wants to play in the highest resolution with the highest quality.

If nvidia doesn't release a good answer to new ATI hw, prolly i'll get the ATI product.

[Fotis]

What I'm really interested, after both companys having launched their next gen cards, is their next next gen cards(G80,R600).:D
IMO, both R580 and G72 will have a limited life spand and I don't think they'll bring anything more than a small speed bump.

[superklye]

Again the key is reading comprehension. The syntax used in the statement clearly indicates that nVidia used the term "Ultra" to describe a 7800 GTX with 512MB of memory.

Additionally I would like to retract my comment that there will "undoubtedly" be a refresh part for the 7800 series SKU. Looking back, historically there have only been TWO GeForce lines that actually had product refreshes, and one of them happened after the next line had already launched. In case you're wondering I'm referring to the GeForce 3 Ti line, which was not available until after the GeForce 4 Ti line launced. The 59xx cards were the only refresh cards nVidia released, and that was to address the obvious design flaws in the 5800. The GeForce 256, GeForce 2, GeForce 4 Ti (the 4800 was not a refresh part), and GeForce 6 series had no refreshes. ATi is the company that does product refreshes regularly (9x00 XT, X850, etc). I am willing to bet the 7800 GTX 512MB is the last SKU for high-end G7x cards we'll see.

Additionally, what more do you want from the 7800 series? Card manufacturers are already providing cards clocked much higher than reference speeds for less than MSRP, and they are the fastest performing cards on the market, bar none. Keep in mind all the X1800 reviews showed 7800 GTs and GTXs at reference clocks, when in reality most manufacturers ship their cards clocked higher (since there is so much headroom). People can get their clocks up to 500/1300 on air with the reference cooler without worrying too much about temperature. Seriously, what is this fascination with this make-believe "7800 Ultra" that was born of the Inquirer, the trash journalism kingpins of the hardware world?
I couldn't (and don't) agree with you more, my man...except on the 4800. You sure it wasn't a refresh? It was just a 4400 with 8x AGP.

[FraGTastiK]

they can simply release a 7800GTX 512 Mb with higher clocks on either mem or core and dont call it Ultra and get away with it.nVIDIA said GTX is their top dog and they gonna stick to it.they have good explanation:

performance(hires /aa)- 7800 GTX 512Mb >7800 GTX 256Mb. its still GTX.


although they need new PCBs for using 1.26ns memory chips.current memory soldiering points on 7800 GTX PCBs doesnt fit for the 1.26ns chips.and seeing how they designed 7800 GTX PCB with room for added 1.6ns chips for up to 512Mb total VRAM,I'd say NV would stay with their initial plan and just slap the same 1.6ns chips on and be done with it.at least that's what seems to logical unless there has been some change of plans after 7800 has been launched.

[OWA]

Did I read it wrong? The nVidia sales rep said he didn't consider ATi competitive?
Wasn't there a "yet"?. I took it to mean there wasn't anything to compete against since the cards are out yet.

In the Nov. 2005 Maximum PC they did a round-up of all the cards and they said they had trouble getting ATI and their vendors to send their cards in for the comparison. None of them wanted to be compared against the 7800GT and 7800GTX.

Edit: So, Maximum PC ended up comparing the 7800s against each other.