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jAkUp
10-26-05, 04:44 PM
I'm sure you guys know this already, but here it is:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27249

Also, they had this to say:

The Inq has gotten its hands on an Xbox360, yes, there is a Wal-Mart near us, and was completely underwhelmed by the quality of the games. Graphics quality was poor, and pixels were showing up blocky, ruining the wow-factor of the new console.

It could change in the future I guess.

Rakeesh
10-26-05, 05:01 PM
I think this is mostly due to many of these games being ports of PC games that are single threaded to begin with. None of em were written from the ground up with multi-threading in mind.

Vagrant Zero
10-26-05, 05:35 PM
They have Wal-Marts in the UK?

Wal-Marts without mexicans...I'm not too sure how I feel about that. Kinda ruins the Wal-Mart feel ya know?

Mr. Hunt
10-26-05, 05:41 PM
They have Wal-Marts in the UK?

Wal-Marts without mexicans...I'm not too sure how I feel about that. Kinda ruins the Wal-Mart feel ya know?

As wrong as some may think that is.. I had to laugh... but then again I can't imagine a Wal-Mart up north without the hillbillies running around with ONLY overalls on...

Raje
10-26-05, 05:47 PM
Graphics quality was poor, and pixels were showing up blocky, ruining the wow-factor of the new console.

I think this is mostly due to many of these games being ports of PC games that are single threaded to begin with. None of em were written from the ground up with multi-threading in mind.

In reference to the graphics and assuming TheInquirer used a decent display: If these are ports of PC games, how come it's blocky? This aspect of the games shouldn't have anything to do with these games not being multithreaded yet.

If Xenos is at least on par with today's GPUs shouldn't it tear through the ~1280x720 resolution with AA cranked especially with a certain amount of "free" AA built into their EDRAM?

What am I missing?

Bad_Boy
10-26-05, 05:48 PM
smells like a rushed release.
/bb puts on flamesuit and runs from the fans. ;)

Raje
10-26-05, 05:53 PM
smells like a rushed release.
/bb puts on flamesuit and runs from the fans. ;)
(popcorn)

jAkUp
10-26-05, 05:53 PM
Well, remember Clay said there was no AA applied on the Walmart demos.

Edge
10-26-05, 06:06 PM
Yes, from what I've seen of the CoD2 prerelease demo, there wasn't any AA being used. Not sure if the same is true of the other demos on the disc, but it seems a little strange since most games were supposed to take advantage of the DRAM in order to add AA.

But honestly, CoD2 doesn't look very impressive to begin with, so I wouldn't use it as much of a graphic benchmark for the system (especially when it has the words "PRERELEASE DEMONSTATION VERSION" plastered in the corner of it, which makes me wonder if it's not an earlier build of the game from before they added the DRAM onto the development units). If the final version of games like Perfect Dark Zero and Gears of War are released without AA, then I'd be disappointed.

Though I'm not sure why The Inquirer is surprised that first-gen Xbox 360 games are only using a single core...that news was revealed almost half a year ago around E3.

Mr_LoL
10-26-05, 06:09 PM
I am hoping for at least 4xAA applied to all games. Or is that asking for too much?

Raje
10-26-05, 06:10 PM
Well, remember Clay said there was no AA applied on the Walmart demos.

Ah. That probably explains it.

Why no AA though? :eek2:

From a PR POV why put out demos that make your product look bad?

How many people have had the "wow-factor" ruined already?

Probably not many in the grand scheme of things.

GamerGuyX
10-26-05, 06:12 PM
Well, remember Clay said there was no AA applied on the Walmart demos.

There are confirmations that some of the Walmart 360 kiosk's weren't even running in 720p progressive scan like it was meant to. Hell, there are also confirmations that some were only hooked up with composite cables.

Oh and for the record. When asked if there was any jaggies presented on the 360 kiosk in a local EB a poster had this to say:

I saw no aliasing. It would appear that something like x4 AA was in effect.

Taken from the AVS forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=594711

Now here's the thing, either

a.) Clay has no idea what "jaggies" are (which I highly doubt).

b.) The EB 360 kiosks have more recent demos running with AA applied.

c.) The Walmart 360 kiosks were setup so bad that natural artifacts created a jagged like effect that looks like jaggies.

d.) Some other possibility...

Raje
10-26-05, 06:26 PM
d.) Some other possibility...

:thinker:

SONY's uber 1337 PS3 Ninjas of Chang3 infiltrated Wal-Mart's ranks and managed to setup the Xbox360s in the worst ways possible. :kar:

:D

jolle
10-26-05, 07:51 PM
That Oblivion DVD rip of late, anyone recall if there was any AA in that?
must have been from the Xbox360, looking at how the viewport was moved..

Toss3
10-27-05, 01:16 PM
That Oblivion DVD rip of late, anyone recall if there was any AA in that?
must have been from the Xbox360, looking at how the viewport was moved..
But why not use AA when they have Edram, it comes nearly free of any performance drop(if I've understood it correctly)? :confused: And didn't MS say that the Xbox360 would use 4xAA in all titles?? Something just isn't right... :eek2:

Rakeesh
10-27-05, 01:22 PM
In reference to the graphics and assuming TheInquirer used a decent display: If these are ports of PC games, how come it's blocky? This aspect of the games shouldn't have anything to do with these games not being multithreaded yet.

Probably a rushed game (demo?) They probably didn't spend any time optimizing the code to be run on anything other than an x86. Thus they had to trim the graphics quality in order to get conscionable framerates.

I'd have a look at it myself as theres a wal-mart down the street, but I don't particularly care for consoles that much :P

JamesDax
10-27-05, 01:33 PM
1st.. CoD2 for the XBox 360 is NOT a PC port. 2nd.. CoD2 for the XBox 360 does use all 3 cores so it is not single threaded. Lastly.. CoD2 for the XBox 360 is superior to the PC version. This according to the games developers.

msxyz
10-27-05, 01:47 PM
AFAIK, Oblivion is multithreaded, both on PC and Xbox360. Confirmation came directly from the developers.

JamesDax
10-27-05, 01:50 PM
Also, Gears of War will be Multithreaded according to Cliffy B.

msxyz
10-27-05, 04:42 PM
But GoW cannot be considered a first generation title.

The M$ guy didn't know what he was talking about. It's probably some sort of PR damage control over the "missing AA" that many people noticed playing at the kiosks. Something in the line of "wait and see, first generation titles don't use the machine to its full potential".

The funny thing is that had he said this exact phrase instead of making up some farfetched excuse it would have been much better.

JamesDax
10-27-05, 05:30 PM
But GoW cannot be considered a first generation title.
.

Really? Why not. It's coming out in the Spring. Just when does the first Gen period end?

BTW, I just got back from my local EB Games and played CoD2 for about 15mins. The game is awesome. It looks great. Much better then the demo did on my PC. Also played Kameo for a short bit. What a beautiful game. Anyway, now that I've had some hands on I've decided that instead of upgrading my PC this winter I'm just going to go ahead and get the 360 and a HDTV.

Alstrong
10-28-05, 02:37 AM
In order to render with "free" AA, the engine has to be able to support tiling because a 720p framebuffer with AA will not fit inside the 10MB of eDRAM. Tiling is not a trivial thing to tack onto an engine during the later stages of development, so because of the rather late arrival of the beta kits, it appears that developers for launch games were not able to add support for tiling.

msxyz
10-28-05, 08:25 AM
There is general consensus among IT journalists that GoW will mark the beginning of the second generation titles developed for the Xbox 360. It's ma sort of landmark.

Look at other titles using the Unreal 3 engine, like eNchant aRM and Frame City Killer. They look nowhere near as god as Gears of War. The engine used in GoW is an evolutional step of the Unreal 3 engine, better tailored to the Xbox360.

Ruined
10-28-05, 10:55 AM
I played the Kiosk, the one I was at was definitely in 720p...

Kameo Demo looked and played awesome (read: system seller), appeared to have 2x AA at a minimum from the small amount of jags I saw. Note I mean ATI's 2xAA, which is a lot better looking than Nvidia's 2xAA - though it may have been 4xAA. Kameo might end up being the new platformer king of the hill - MS has a true gem here. As I commented in the other thread, playing the demo reminded me of the way I felt when I played Super Mario World for the SNES... No console game to date has given me that feel in all this time except Kameo!

Call of Duty 2 Demo was very good but not a system seller. COD felt a bit like a PC port in terms of controls, had some minor slowdown and looked like AA was off (or 2xAA - it was a lesser amount than Kameo had). It had some impressive stuff going on onscreen though, but it felt like a game designed for a mouse originally rather than an FPS designed ground-up for a controller.

King Kong Demo should not have been put in the kiosk. It appeared to have no AA (worst aliasing of the 3) and massive slowdown. Controls seemed clunky. The gameplay itself also seemed mediocre. This felt like an unfinished game. That being said, it DID have some amazing graphical effects, it just felt too sloppy for a kiosk game.

I am guessing the star launch titles for X360 will be Kameo, Perfect Dark:Zero, Dead or Alive 4, Project Gotham Racing 3, NBA 2K6, Ridge Racer 6, and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

Re: Inquirer, A single-threaded Kameo on XBOX 360 graphically murders any other platformer you've ever played before on any console. :)