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jAkUp
10-29-05, 02:43 AM
http://www.havok.com/content/view/186/53/

3) Havok announces plans to support GPU-accelerated physics through Havok FX™. This new product from Havok will utilize the native power of Shader Model 3 class graphics cards, like the NVIDIA GeForce 7800, to deliver physics effects that integrate seamlessly with Havok’s industry-leading game-play physics technology found in Havok Complete™. Havok FX will be cross-platform and will take advantage of current and next-generation GPU technology to deliver eye-popping effects that visually enhance the gaming experience. Havok FX will allow developers to leverage the growing installed base of cutting edge graphics cards and their powerful, standardized APIs - to offload floating-point operations that are necessary for simulating a broad-range of dynamic visual effects.
Read more...

Nice!

Superfly
10-29-05, 03:13 AM
could very well be the end of Ageia, Physics on the GPU rather than an add-in card has always been the way to go.

goodbye Physics PPU.

Edge
10-29-05, 03:21 AM
Interesting, I wonder what kind of a performance boost that offers (and what kind of a performance hit it would incur on the GPU).

jolle
10-29-05, 04:39 AM
hmm.. well my 6800GT is sortof straining already in later games such as FEAR, why would I want to move strain from CPU to GPU to further that?

SlamDunk
10-29-05, 04:52 AM
Got interesting replys @ Beyond3D forums: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25005

emailthatguy
10-29-05, 08:01 AM
didnt sweeney love the ageia in jakup's interview w/ him at e3?

Veger
10-29-05, 10:20 AM
Thank God, one less piece of crap to buy - :) This hardware is getting way to expensive for a few good games that utilize this hardware anyway. And I have to say alot of these games are so bug ridden because of greedy publishes to get them out.
This is another story. Now on with the thread.

jolle
10-29-05, 10:46 AM
Perhaps with some loadbalancing to check what is being stressed the most, CPU or GPU, and then shift the Physics calculations based on that between them..
that might make sense, but simply moving it over to GPU sounds a bit.. out there..

superklye
10-29-05, 12:15 PM
Maybe I'm just missing something, but what does SM3.0 have to do with physics?

Rakeesh
10-29-05, 12:29 PM
Maybe I'm just missing something, but what does SM3.0 have to do with physics?

A lot of the vector functions used in shaders are also applicable to physics. Thus the silicon used to make fast shader calculations can be used to make fast physics calculations.

I personally don't think this is worth going after though. It will mean degraded video card performance and risk the possibility of breaking older games if not done just right.

superklye
10-29-05, 12:46 PM
A lot of the vector functions used in shaders are also applicable to physics. Thus the silicon used to make fast shader calculations can be used to make fast physics calculations.
Ah, okay. Thanks. :)

I personally don't think this is worth going after though. It will mean degraded video card performance and risk the possibility of breaking older games if not done just right.
Couldn't they just make it only work in SLI profiles or something, or not even SLI profiles, but profiles in general? Like, it could just be another option like AA and AF or whatever. You turn it on for a game if you want it, and if not, you don't.

Or would it not work like that?

Vagrant Zero
10-29-05, 12:47 PM
Meh.

lumpyhed
10-29-05, 01:04 PM
On the plus side this enhancement is instantly availible, no need for us to go out and buy something extra.

jAkUp
10-29-05, 01:22 PM
Yea well, I still don't think Ageia is going anywhere. They still have plenty of developers backing them.

Superfly
10-29-05, 02:05 PM
Yea well, I still don't think Ageia is going anywhere. They still have plenty of developers backing them.

See I dont EVER see add-in PPU's going anywere other than the bargain bin.

I can see a use for them over a very SHORT period of time, soon enough CPU's & GPU's will make them pointless.

jAkUp
10-29-05, 02:57 PM
I think that they may start slapping Ageia cards on video cards... or something in that matter. Ageia is still better suited for physics than any graphics, or cpu.

Or, you can look at it like this. The GPU has the capability of doing physics, much in the same way that a CPU has the capability of doing graphics, but if you want a dedicated card, that is faster, and supports more features, than you buy a PPU.

Zelda_fan
10-29-05, 03:13 PM
no, Ageia will just be forced to support the Havok FX API.

jAkUp
10-29-05, 03:17 PM
Yea, I'm certain Ageia will support Havok now.

When I talked to them at E3 they said they are "looking in to it" When I asked about supporting other physics engines like Havok or meqon

Zelda_fan
10-29-05, 03:44 PM
probably one of the biggest reasons 3dfx went under is becasue they pushed Glide rather than bending into OpenGL and DirectX. Hopefully Ageia dosen't make that same mistake.

emailthatguy
10-29-05, 04:47 PM
Yea well, I still don't think Ageia is going anywhere. They still have plenty of developers backing them.

agreed. having seen gears of war and the ue3 engine running in person i can tell you shaders are going to be hit HARD in the next generation. I just dont see how were going to have the extra processing cycles on our video cards.

jolle
10-29-05, 07:22 PM
agreed. having seen gears of war and the ue3 engine running in person i can tell you shaders are going to be hit HARD in the next generation. I just dont see how were going to have the extra processing cycles on our video cards.
They argue that the hardware is growing faster then the software, IE that the next slew of GPUs should run the UE3.0 etc powered games with some power to spare on the shader units.. if thats the case or not, we will have to see.. possibly the highest end cards or something, get bottlenecked by other factors then PS rawpower..

Superfly
10-30-05, 02:40 AM
yup its CPU/Sound/Storage and the like that need a serious speed/tech bump.

GPU's are fine as they are right now.

Elderblaze
10-30-05, 04:34 AM
CPU's will never match a dedicated PPU. At least not for the forseable future. Even in a dual core system with one entire core dedicated to physics it's not even remotely close. I could see Graphics cards definatly adding physics abilities though, thru a separate chip that comes with the board, or it's own silicon and/or pipeline stage. It may start as a "Minor" addition and not match dedicated cards, but over time get more and more refined. I don't really see CPU/Sound/Storage being the bottle neck at this time either. CPU? any Modern A64 can run Fear over 100 frames at 640x480 given enough graphics power. Fear is totally graphics card limited.. in a big way. Sound? X-fi can do 128 sounds and more effects then you can shake a stick at, at very low CPU utilization as well, it easily best any Console audio processor to date, though XBOX's Soundstorm is nice for DD Live. I wouldent be surprized at all if it was more capable then even the next gen audio processors. And I really don't see how storage matters at all, I know your not talking about hard drive space or performance as it has almost no effect on game performance.. other then load times. Ram is also trivial, the only thing that is really holding us back at this point is 256 MB Graphics cards. I definatly think it's time we move to 512MB cards, we've been ready for that since DOOM3 was launched...

My main concern with Ageia is that it will always be a niche product.. ala X-Ram enabled X-FI's.. good luck getting broad developer support. And yes I know it's supported by UE3 and other developers have claimed support. But if the product does not sell well that support will drop off like a bad TV show.. if the "Ratings"(Sales$$$) are not there. At worst we'll slowly start to see graphics cards encroach on this area. For you people concerned about reduced graphics performance, I really don't think you fully understand what a Visual treat insane physics will be. They are almost one in the same. It's definatly not that far of a reach. I know i'd gladly give up few shaders for a signifigant Phsycis stage. It's not just "Faster" phsycis accleration, this kind of technology will enable things that we just have not seen yet, things that are currently not possible.

Regards,
Mike

Superfly
10-30-05, 04:57 AM
I disagree - CPUs just arn't fast enough for me yet and storage data speeds are simply a joke.

as for a PPU - never gonna catch on.

lumpyhed
10-30-05, 05:14 AM
Storage - them crazy 16000 RPM drives with 1GB cache that MS & Samsung are working on for WinVI. :D