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Kruno
01-04-03, 06:18 AM
http://www.maximumpc.com/features/feature_2003-01-03.html

These scores are not impressive. Though I will judge the final card when it comes out.
Even if the GFFX is 200 times faster, I still consider it as a failure as it will not offer me anything that I want.

At the resolutions I use, my Geforce 3 was MORE than enough. (1024x768, 800x600, 1152x864)

Though my Ati card has some features that I wanted and no other card has, hence my upgrade from my Geforce 3 :)

RipItup
01-04-03, 06:26 AM
No, not impressive. The AA is supposed to not effect performance at all so I'd have expected more.

We will have to wait and see I guess.

StealthHawk
01-04-03, 06:37 AM
take this into accountOf course, the GeForceFX card that came inside our Alienware prototype system was just as “beta” as the rest of the system. With early drivers and freshly fabbed silicon, the card we tested isn’t quite what you’ll find in stores when the card ships in February or March.

also...looking at those benchmarks it appears that 2x FSAA may be close to free.

anyway, i think these scores are impressive since the gfFX has a lot less bandwidth to work with. the 3dmark game4 score was very unimpressive compared to the r9700, but UT2003 and Q3 were much faster of the gfFX.

Kruno
01-04-03, 06:58 AM
SH: Take this into account: Though I will judge the final card when it comes out. :)

They may be nearly free but so are the R300's. :)
It won't matter as you will never be able to take full advantage of either card fully. :/

CPU limitations.

RM. Andersson
01-04-03, 08:00 AM
I dont think the benchmarks are bad.
It wouldn´t be reasonable to expect more IMO.

And the drivers will get better. In a few months it might be 10-20% faster because of better drivers.

Regards!

Kruno
01-04-03, 08:14 AM
Why is this thread so slow? LMFAO!!!
I thought it would have hit 2 pages by now. :) :condom:

netape
01-04-03, 08:33 AM
Because nobody's intrested in beta tests, we want final tests :D .

Kruno
01-04-03, 08:50 AM
I want no tests. :p

I want all the R300's 2d IQ, videoshader and DVD features on the Nv30 before it becomes a good card IMO. We shall see if similar features are implemented. :)

Anything less than that doesn't even warrant a look from me. :)
I'm not really intrested in game performance as both video cards will be cpu limited.

Not to mention the time I spend on my desktop and watching DVD's on my pc. :)

Riptide
01-04-03, 10:01 AM
No kidding on the 2D. Noticed a difference going from a visiontek ti4600 to this 9700. I won't be going back to any nvidia products until I am comfortable that their 2D IQ is on par with the competition and right now it SUX.

Kruno
01-04-03, 10:11 AM
I mainly upgraded for those features. :)
I am certainly not going to upgrade/downgrade to get rid of them. LMFAO!!! :D

Kruno
01-04-03, 10:18 AM
Maybe not in that scenario. :)
I would hope that the Nv30's colour compression is more efficient than the R300's.

RM. Andersson
01-04-03, 10:19 AM
But the 2d IQ on Nvidia cards depends on the gfx-card manufacturer. Some have terrible IQ and some are rather good.
It´s mostley the HF-filter that can make the 2d IQ really suck.
A poor HF-filter with cheap components can make the picture blurry and with pale colors. At least at anything more than 1024*768.

Regards!

Uttar
01-04-03, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by netdude
1600x1200 res.

What scenario is better to really show off the 256 bit bus? :)

Either way, the GFFX is the new king when it comes out, even on a 128 bit bus. :)

It would have been really ugly for ATI if the GFFX was on 256 bit bus.

The 9700POS's 15 minutes is over.

I personally don't consider myself nVidia biased. But most of the time, I still got good faith in nVidia ( mostly for future products )

And you're making several big mistakes there. Yes, there is a better scenario: 4X AA - After all, considering those super huge frames rates in Q3, it would be insane not to activate 4X AA, no?

Yes, it would have been ugly for ATI if the GFFX was on a 256 bit memory bus. And it would also have been ugly for nVidia financials, barely making any money on each card! :) ( At $499 for the Ultra and $399 for the Regular, I guess they're still doing a fair amount of money per card )

And anyway, 256 bit memory bus is to come on the NV35, to compete with the R400 :)

"15 minutes"? Err, I'm not sure what you mean by that.
If what you meant is that it's short, congrats on seeing about 6 months as short. You're very patient ;)


Uttar

Kruno
01-04-03, 10:32 AM
Every video card has it's 15 seconds of fame. :)
Then it has it's 15 seconds of shame. ;) :D

Though weather the card is a winner or not is dependent on ones preference.
Like I said, if it doesn't support the features I bought my R300 for, then to me it's not a good product.

Maybe for you it's a winner. :)
We will have to wait and see the final product to make a real judgement.

BTW, I made these decisions long before I bought my R300. :)
There is no way I can be accused of being a fanboy. :)

I have had not 1 problem with Ati's drivers, but I had 1 problem with Nvidia's. Through my experiences I can argue that Ati's drivers are better than Nvidia's.
Through your experiences Nvidia's could be better than Ati's.

Might I add: I am not buying another Ati or Nvidia card until some great features are introduced. :)

Chalnoth
01-04-03, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by RipItup
No, not impressive. The AA is supposed to not effect performance at all so I'd have expected more.

Um, AA not affecting performance at all is an impossibility.

In the GeForce FX's case, it still takes up more memory. So no matter how good the compression is, the compression still takes up precious video memory.

Uttar
01-04-03, 10:48 AM
Of course the GFFX will own the Radeon 9700 Pro in most situations.
But it costs $499, while the Radeon 9700 Pro MSRP is $399 ( and can easily be found at $299 and below ) and was there for *months*

And the NV30 will be a short lived part. Barely a few months after it, we'll get the R400/NV35. I'm sure that'll be a very interesting fight, however.


Uttar

Kruno
01-04-03, 10:52 AM
...a few months after it, we'll get the R400/NV35

Few months to me means 67 months.
Care to expand? :)

Uttar
01-04-03, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Few months to me means 67 months.
Care to expand? :)

R400: late august in stores ( ATI is a 12 month cycle, as you all know )
NV35: probably 1-2 months in stores after the R400.


Uttar

vitocorleone
01-04-03, 10:57 AM
* stands next to MuFu and joins in the laughter *

Kruno
01-04-03, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Uttar
R400: late august in stores ( ATI is a 12 month cycle, as you all know )
NV35: probably 1-2 months in stores after the R400.


Uttar

How about if Ati has delays is what I mean Uther. :)
How about if Nvidia have delays, or brings out the Nv35 sooner? :)

How about if the plant that the chips are coming out of blows up?
What would happen if God destroys the Ati and Nvidia chips of the face of the earth? ;)

MuFu
01-04-03, 11:13 AM
I doubt NV35 will be that late to the market. It is just a fixed/optimised NV30 core with Low-K, after all. If there's a delay it'll be be fab-orientated.

MuFu.

Uttar
01-04-03, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by MuFu
I doubt NV35 will be that late to the market. It is just a fixed/optimised NV30 core with Low-K, after all. If there's a delay it'll be be fab-orientated.

MuFu.

Low-K *and* probably a 256 bit memory bus *drools*
Let me say this quite simply... GIMME!
How far do you think Low K could go? 700Mhz? 800Mhz?
This is gonna be... tasty :super:

Uttar

ReDeeMeR
01-04-03, 11:25 AM
Yeah expect Geforce FX 2 GTS or something with improved memory etc, FX1 isnt worth the time.

MuFu
01-04-03, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Uttar
Low-K *and* probably a 256 bit memory bus *drools*
Let me say this quite simply... GIMME!
How far do you think Low K could go? 700Mhz? 800Mhz?
This is gonna be... tasty :super:

Uttar

You sound suprised! ;)

-NV35 is obviously based on the "NV3x" architecture, as are all the ASICs in this generation.
-NV30 has been troublesome R&D-wise, but has nevertheless been rushed to market so there will be a few bugs in the silicon (no doubt "patched" in software).
-nVidia decided not to use TSMC's low-K process for NV35, but obviously it was quite a tough decision to make. It'll be an easier call in the forthcoming months.

So NV35 - speculatively, a bug-fixed, mildly optimised, NV30-based, 0.13u (low-K) ASIC, *probably* with a 256-bit memory controller. As for the speed... 625Mhz-650MHz default? Who knows? :)

MuFu.

PreservedSwine
01-04-03, 12:13 PM
Gee, if this was in a PC magazine, it must be over a month or two old...the editors over there a glacial in thire printing and editing dept.....

But anyway, with no or 2x fsaa, the NV30 will be FAST.....until it runs out of memory bandwidth....

Up the FSAA torture chamber 4x or 6x ...and the R9700 will not be much slower, maybe even faster.....
just my .02:)

Still, very impressive with such early early drivers....

And I totally agree w/ the Inq. for once about the Nature Benchie...it seems no cards that are just released do well in that bech...but within a few driver revisions, the cards seem to really improve:)