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View Full Version : Ageia layeth the smackdown


Zelda_fan
11-01-05, 03:06 PM
http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/havoc/001.htm

SlamDunk
11-01-05, 03:17 PM
Yeah. Begun the physics war has (duel)

I hope AGEIA will release the comparison videos soon. I've been dying for new media since these (http://www.airtightgames.com/currentproject.html) videos hit the net.

slick
11-01-05, 03:34 PM
Yeah. Begun the physics war has (duel)

I hope AGEIA will release the comparison videos soon. I've been dying for new media since these (http://www.airtightgames.com/currentproject.html) videos hit the net.

That fluid simulation video...... :drooling:

WLanMan
11-01-05, 08:26 PM
Hmmm... I've been watching Ageia closely... and some of these answers are pretty unspecific and lacking a definitive pwns quality from Ageia's CEO:

If that were true, it would be the case that GPUs are currently underutilized!

Telling me that 300 million transistor beasties don't have extra cycles for some physics is not a strong answer. Some specs on what Ageia does much faster or how much processing power physics takes would be nice. Any sort of specifics would be great.

Clearly, there is great deal of performance required for physics and the necessary power needed will require dedicated hardware.

And GFX hardware isn't a vector processing piece of dedicated hardware? Why will NV/ATI not eat your lunch here with consumers needing to buy only a single piece of hardware? Specifics on how the Ageia API's/HW are more physics useful than GFX vector processing flows? :argue:

impactful games will need to use hardware physics.

This was just funny. On the Impactful scale, I give FEAR 9 Impacts! :p

Manju: We fully intend to ship the PhysX processor to consumers when the content is “ripe”.

I see the "wine" analogy. Otoh... I'm not sure I want my content ripe. I've already played too many ripe games (looking at you Battlefield:Vietnam). Was GDHardware playing a Wayne's World angle here? "It certainly does suck".

Oh well... here's to stuff crashing into each other, breaking into pieces and having all the pieces ricochetting in "correct" directions.

retsam
11-01-05, 09:49 PM
Telling me that 300 million transistor beasties don't have extra cycles for some physics is not a strong answer. Some specs on what Ageia does much faster or how much processing power physics takes would be nice. Any sort of specifics would be great.
i think you miss understood him...what he is saying is ...there is always a trade off. you are gonna either have super high res gaming with or medium res gamsing with physics on card...the gpu can only do so much work..what would happen if i turned on cpu renderer in any modern game... frame rates would hit the floor and the game would look like ass ...i think we are seeing the same thing with physics..

Rakeesh
11-02-05, 12:55 AM
i think you miss understood him...what he is saying is ...there is always a trade off. you are gonna either have super high res gaming with or medium res gamsing with physics on card...the gpu can only do so much work..what would happen if i turned on cpu renderer in any modern game... frame rates would hit the floor and the game would look like ass ...i think we are seeing the same thing with physics..

Definitely. Take fluid dynamics for example. You could make the fluids behave more realistically, but then the graphics quality of the fluids being rendered will turn to sh*t meanwhile.

If you want both high quality graphics and realistic fluid dynamics at the same time, you are going to need two separate devices; no if's and's or but's about it.

This was just funny. On the Impactful scale, I give FEAR 9 Impacts! :p

It doesn't come anywhere near what it could be if it had a dedicated PPU.

BrianG
11-02-05, 08:10 AM
Sorry, but I have the the feeling that developers would prefer using the second core on a dual core system for physics than a seperate piece of hardware. It would be easier to scale physics effects, one CPU vs Two as opposed to one CPU w/wo the physics processor. The guy did change his chest-beating tone when the interviewer asked about dual cores.

WLanMan
11-02-05, 01:56 PM
i think you miss understood him...what he is saying is ...there is always a trade off.

I understood him. I guess I'm just eager for a qualification in demo or chart form. What are the differences between CPU + GPU, CPU + GPU (GPU doing physics & gfx), and CPU + GPU + PPU. The last two being the most interesting since you get a new level of physics.

Remember that NV/ATI are huge and can get sellable priced wafers and volumes through Taiwanese fabs at low < .13 um and hence can put 300 million transistors on a die. Ageia as a startup won't be at the same process level or even ballpark transistor count as these behemoths. So the question is: how similiar is the physics specific processing between a PPU and what these GPU's can do and how inefficient are the GPU's at physics? If we're only talking about borrowing 4 pipes (x2) off two SLI'ed 7800GTX's to do the same physics as an Ageia PPU, then I might sacrifice the what... 10 fps that those pipes give to a recent game to get a whole new level of physics. Now if it's an entire 7800GTX required and you have to disable SLI to get Ageia level physics, then at least cost/perf-wise, they've got something.

Sorry, but I have the the feeling that developers would prefer using the second core on a dual core system for physics than a seperate piece of hardware.

I think developers write to physics API's and are happiest when said API can scale itself across whatever hardware is there without the developers having to change their API calls. Ageia is making money licensing their API and then has to support it running with specific libraries on top of AMD CPU's, Intel CPU's, Cell processors (PS3), and their own hardware. Having a hardware option that gives gamers the best physics level is just another means to lock developers into your library API sales. For XBox 360 you might even see Ageia using the ATI gfx hardware for their physics processing... if it helps...

When will Ageia have an AI library too? Then my CPU can concentrate on adding up all my killz. :)

I guess all this is to say - I want to see the 3dMark06 (?) with Ageia licensed physics running on different hardware configuration. Having snagged Unreal Engine 3 is probably a huge bonus for Ageia and upcoming games... though Havoc may show you bigger physics in a HL2 level before Unreal Engine 3 is out.