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Dr.No.pt
11-14-05, 04:41 PM
Is it true that to match ATI's x1800 Image quality the Nvidia needs to be on HQ mode ?

What about the 'famous' shimmering ?

Is it still present ? Or is it BS ?

Thank you in advanced.
:dance:

DJB
11-14-05, 05:09 PM
If you are not going to run this card in HQ mode, please don't buy it. It would be a sad waste of the most powerfull graphics hardware available, and I would cry myself to sleep at night thinking out you setting it on performance mode and being CPU bound in any case. :)

DJB

fatal1ty
11-14-05, 06:30 PM
Thats fine, but there is still shimmering in HQ mode in some games...

hemmy
11-14-05, 08:10 PM
play the game

DirkGently
11-14-05, 09:05 PM
Is it true that to match ATI's x1800 Image quality the Nvidia needs to be on HQ mode ?

What about the 'famous' shimmering ?

Is it still present ? Or is it BS ?

Thank you in advanced.
:dance:

True unfortunately. I think we've seen the last of the driver improvements to help this problem for the existing gpu's. There was mention of it in an article i was reading earlier. 'The next gen gpu's will be designed with texture improvements to improve image quality.'

evilchris
11-14-05, 09:11 PM
True unfortunately. I think we've seen the last of the driver improvements to help this problem for the existing gpu's. There was mention of it in an article i was reading earlier. 'The next gen gpu's will be designed with texture improvements to improve image quality.'
What a load of crap.

To the original post, their image quality is basically equal. NV has better AA, ATI has better AF. You do not need to set the NV to HQ to match the ATI.

Unbornchild
11-14-05, 09:24 PM
What a load of crap.

To the original post, their image quality is basically equal. NV has better AA, ATI has better AF. You do not need to set the NV to HQ to match the ATI.
Isn't evilchris attitude towards newer members a tad intimidating.
Umm: Chris, might be time to reread the forums rules we newbees (some of us equipped with a ATI card) recently agreed to when we signed in yesterday thank you.:rolleyes:

fatal1ty
11-14-05, 10:06 PM
What a load of crap.

To the original post, their image quality is basically equal. NV has better AA, ATI has better AF. You do not need to set the NV to HQ to match the ATI.

Well first of all Quality mode and the shimmering hasn't even been addressed and to anyone with two good eyes the shimmering in Quality makes it just unusable. So yes, HQ is needed just to eliminate 75% of the shimmering. Even in HQ there is still some. My X1800XT has no shimmering, much better IQ and no tearing.

Nv40
11-14-05, 10:18 PM
Well first of all Quality mode and the shimmering hasn't even been addressed and to anyone with two good eyes the shimmering in Quality makes it just unusable. So yes, HQ is needed just to eliminate 75% of the shimmering. Even in HQ there is still some. My X1800XT has no shimmering, much better IQ and no tearing.


so are you saying all X800 users that have the problem are blind? The same was told the "there are no problems in ATI land ,that everything is ok there" but when it was pointed that the problems existed in a rage3d article shimereing in ATI ,everyone was... :p Upps! ..it was as worse there. it shows that die hard Fans see what they want to see.. not what is there.

there have been many articles like this..

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1812/

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/09/08/cat58_shimmering/

that shows ATI IQ is not any better than NVidia IQ. i always knew the issue was there in all cards ,in just that people where to busy looking in the greener side . So after all ATI have been always the standar in IQ . :)
IMO .."the better IQ" of ATI is a myth.. using equal AA/AF setting are comparable in each card in real world gameplay in all reviews . ATI 6x is good but 8xS do alot more work IQ wise. And ATI angle independant AF have never been an IQ advantage for ATI fans when Nvidia supported the technique in geforce4 days . THat why i believe the "better IQ" is all in your imagination.. otherwise REviews will be showing again and again.. how superior is ATi IQ..etc..so many people cant be wrong.. dont you think? THe IQ advantage was over since the introduction of Nv40. because the FX Antialiasing wasnt on par with ATI ,now it is. :) .I bet that your"sensitive eyes" will not be able to choose in a side by side screenshot " which looks better" unless someone told you which hardware was taken. there are many setting in ATI and Nv hardware to tweak and improve your graphics .. So its not a showstopper for most people.. unless you stopped playing games like WOW,BF2 or FEAR because it shimmers alot in ATI hardware.. and it looks worse for some people there. that in NV GTX's or previous ATI hardware.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1720840&enterthread=y

if you want to talk about better gaming experience ,which hardware could give you that , noshimmering,great graphics ..etc. ) ,the hardware that will give you more for your money .. thats always the question behind every question. then we will need to talk about noise too ,certainly a hair dryer at all times next to you ,might make you enjoyless your games..the X1800's are very noiser and the new GTX very quiet and cooler, (well ..at least thats what people say ) so those are othes things that if you are perfectionist ,you should be aware too.

fatal1ty
11-14-05, 10:20 PM
so are you saying all X800 users that have the problem are blind? The same was told the "there are no problems in ATI land ,that everything is ok there" but when it was pointed that the problems existed in a rage3d article shimereing in ATI ,everyone was... :p Upps! ..it was as worse there. it shows that die hard Fans see what they want to see.. not what is there.

Well considering WoW is the only app with shimmering on the ATI card, you aren't well versed in the ATI shimmering apparently.

Since I own both cards I think I would know alot better than you! :rolleyes:

evilchris
11-14-05, 10:25 PM
Isn't evilchris attitude towards newer members a tad intimidating.
Umm: Chris, might be time to reread the forums rules we newbees (some of us equipped with a ATI card) recently agreed to when we signed in yesterday thank you.:rolleyes:

"What a load of crap" is well within the bounds of what I can post. If someone is intimidated on an Internet forum then they have better things to worry about than me. Thanks.

BTW what the heck does which card you have matter?

I call a troll when I see one. What he posted was indeed a load of crap, and a troll.

Nv40
11-14-05, 11:38 PM
Well considering WoW is the only app with shimmering on the ATI card, you aren't well versed in the ATI shimmering apparently.

Since I own both cards I think I would know alot better than you! :rolleyes:


well im not so lucky to compare both side by side.. but i know of people that also have both and that disagree with your views.. :)


I played last night BF2 and Fear (both the demos) using the X1800XL

I had AL OFF, AA4 AA8, High Quality everything, Adaptative AA.

There is some shimmering on those games also.

On BF2 you can see it on vegetation (trees), some walls and surfaces that are wavy like potato chips.

On Fear, you can see it on some windows, some walls and brick walls. The potato chip surface too.

Now I am leaving for work, when I come back I will swap the GTX in and look at those games.

At this moment, I think shimmering is not a purchasing parameter anymore. It is there, for both cards. We will have to pick one based on other factors.


i updated my last post. BTW. ;)

fatal1ty
11-15-05, 12:34 AM
haha, I dont see any shimmering in BF2 with the X1800XT. I do with the GTX so whatever you want to believe is fine.

from your own quoted article...
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/09/08/cat58_shimmering/

"After the problems that NVIDIA have had with shimmering, we weren't expecting ATI to have the same problems and even more so, we certainly weren't expecting them to not highlight it as a bug. In light of these problems, we'll be sticking with Catalyst 5.7 until it is fixed. "

At least there is a resolution - use the 5.7's. Thus it's a bug that cropped up, not something that has existed for a 2 generations like the NV shimmer.



regarding this -
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1720840&enterthread=y

Like I said WoW has been confirmed to have shimmering on both NV and ATI - so it's a game issue.

evilchris
11-15-05, 01:23 AM
Shimmer for two generations? Funny, I've had my 6800 Ultra since like August of 2004, never had any shimmering in any game. When my BFG 512's get here I'm sure I won't have any problems either. Keep telling yourself 7800's shimmer and no driver fixes the problem, if only to make you feel better about your ATI purchase.

evilchris
11-15-05, 01:23 AM
Shimmer for two generations? Funny, I've had my 6800 Ultra since like August of 2004, never had any shimmering in any game. When my BFG 512's get here I'm sure I won't have any problems either. Keep telling yourself 7800's shimmer and no driver fixes the problem, if only to make you feel better about your ATI purchase.

fatal1ty
11-15-05, 02:20 AM
Shimmer for two generations? Funny, I've had my 6800 Ultra since like August of 2004, never had any shimmering in any game. When my BFG 512's get here I'm sure I won't have any problems either. Keep telling yourself 7800's shimmer and no driver fixes the problem, if only to make you feel better about your ATI purchase.


Ok :p

KickAssCop
11-15-05, 02:48 AM
I have shimmering with my 6800GT on some games.

havox
11-15-05, 07:18 AM
Hi, I have experianced whitelines tears in geforce 3, TI 4600, & My recent BFG 6800 ultra & shimmering only in open gl!

fatal1ty
11-15-05, 08:54 AM
Apparently we are blind, it's not really there. THERE IS NO SHIMMERING WHILE USING AN NVIDIA CARD - WE ARE JUST IMAGINING THINGS. ;)

Ninjaman09
11-15-05, 08:59 AM
I haven't seen shimmering since 78.03, and I'm VERY picky about it.

fatal1ty
11-15-05, 09:04 AM
If you are using an LCD and anything less than 1600, it's still there.

Ninjaman09
11-15-05, 09:15 AM
I have a Samsung 915N and I run at 1280x1024 because I have to and I see no shimmering.

|JuiceZ|
11-15-05, 09:17 AM
I notice little to no texture shimming on the 7800GTX that I own now or with the 6800gt that I owned previously. This is running @ 1680x1050 HQ on an 2005FPW.

Dazz
11-15-05, 10:11 AM
Pft LCD's are the future i wouldn't expect shimmering. Having said that i had shimmering with my MSI 6800 but it was only in Doom 3 and it wasn't too bad luckly.

kazna
11-15-05, 10:25 AM
Well considering WoW is the only app with shimmering on the ATI card, you aren't well versed in the ATI shimmering apparently.

Since I own both cards I think I would know alot better than you! :rolleyes:

Yeah, there is very minor texture shimmering on ATI cards. I guess you could call it shimmering, its texture ailasing which is impossible to get rid of without SSAA. Texture aliasing is also very noticeable in the later levels of CoR:EFBB on both ATI and nvidia cards.

WoW is also special for another reason, its the only game where nvidia's High Quality mode causes a huge performance hit. In most other games its 2-5%, but it in places such as the barrens or desolace which normally has a very high framerate, I would get about a 30% drop in performance on a 6800GT. It would go from 90fps Quality to 60fps in HQ. Thankfully these places have high framerates as it is. Areas such as The Plaugelands and Ashenvale don't take the hit the others do (thankfully).

I don't mind nVidia cards in Quality mode in most games. WoW is the only game I can think that I needed HQ.