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jAkUp
11-14-05, 06:12 PM
Remember when I went to E3 and I spoke with Tim Sweeney?

Here was the last question:

Jacob Freeman (jAkUp): Okay, one more question: R520 or G70?

Tim Sweeney: [laughs] Oh, G70 for sure.
[Video Link] (http://www.nvnews.net/articles/e3_2005/sweeneyinterview.html)

Since technically the G70 includes the 7800GTX 512MB, I suppose Sweeney was right, and all those people at "other" forums said it was all just PR... hah! :D

keith33
11-14-05, 06:16 PM
Don't you have his autograph on your UT box? :)

With the GTX 512, GTX 256, GT, and 6800 GS, why the hell would anyone buy an ATi card at this particular moment in time?

SH64
11-14-05, 06:19 PM
Yeah Sweeny knows ...

agentkay
11-14-05, 06:19 PM
With the GTX 512, GTX 256, GT, and 6800 GS, why the hell would anyone buy an ATi card at this particular moment in time?

For Crossfire of course! :D

fatal1ty
11-14-05, 06:23 PM
With the GTX 512, GTX 256, GT, and 6800 GS, why the hell would anyone buy an ATi card at this particular moment in time?

One word... shimmering.

Vagrant Zero
11-14-05, 06:23 PM
Don't you have his autograph on your UT box? :)

With the GTX 512, GTX 256, GT, and 6800 GS, why the hell would anyone buy an ATi card at this particular moment in time?

Becuase Nvidia hates AGP. Would love to get a GT, but all of a sudden it stops being a steal when you have to throw in a new mobo and cpu. And I'm quite happy with my CPU [64 3200 ClawHammer at 2.53ghz] and will be keeping it until they move onto newer sockets and mobos with DDR2 support.

One word... shimmering.

Oh get the bloody hell of it. Everytime Nvidia bitch-slaps ATI the fanatics crawl back to their IQ quality crapshoot. Ya shimmering sucks, but not having AA on becuase your card can't handle it sucks more.

At the end of the day Power = IQ more than IQ = IQ.

evilchris
11-14-05, 06:27 PM
One word... shimmering.

One word... fud.

NightFire
11-14-05, 06:43 PM
"Well, the shimmering may be true, but anyone who doesn't buy a GTX is gay." - Paraphrased from Family Guy (The quote may be a little off. It's funnier if you've actually seen the episode this takes place in.)

phide
11-14-05, 06:52 PM
I don't know about you gentlemen, but I've only experienced shimmering in Doom 3, and that fix is as easy as sliced cheese.

Fud.

Riptide
11-14-05, 07:19 PM
I've seen this GTX shimmer in FarCry 1.33.

evilchris
11-14-05, 07:27 PM
I think shimmering issues come down to specific game issues, not cards. X1800's shimmer in WoW. I don't blame ATI for that, it's a game issue.

Riptide
11-14-05, 07:30 PM
Well the thing is my X850 didn't shimmer in the exact same spot in FarCry. So in that case I'm inclined to put the blame elsewhere (than the game).

aAv7
11-14-05, 07:38 PM
I get shimmering in hl2, quake 4, doom 3....just about everything I play, just gotta put the image quality up to high quality and most of it goes away.

$649, I might have to sell this 256 gtx and go for one of these. =)

Why will I not buy ATI? Well that's pretty simple actually. I'd like to buy a 512MB card next week, not next year. And nvidia gets me where it counts, availability.

CaptNKILL
11-14-05, 08:02 PM
"Well, the shimmering may be true, but anyone who doesn't buy a GTX is gay." - Paraphrased from Family Guy (The quote may be a little off. It's funnier if you've actually seen the episode this takes place in.)
"I bought a GTX card..."
"I bought a GTX card as well!"
"I WAS THE FIRST ONE THAT BOUGHT A GTX CARD!"

:D

Apollo 13
11-14-05, 10:34 PM
what is shimmering?

bkswaney
11-14-05, 11:20 PM
No matter how you slice it Nvidia has been king since the 6800u
was released.
Then here come the 7800GTX. Still king.
Then ati paper released the 1800XT and by the time
ati's new high end hit the street Nvidia hits with a super
high clocked 512meg 7800GTX. "lol"
Man since the FX-5800u flop Nvidia is TopDawg for sure.

ATI is just out of luck. Nvidia has there number no matter
what they do. :rofl:
I wonder if they will try the XTPE again with 700+ core and 1800+ memory.
It will not matter though. It will be 6 months getting to market. "lol":angel:

Treason
11-14-05, 11:35 PM
I wonder if nVidia corporation considers ATi as competition anymore. Maybe the battle has switched to the mobile market because the discrete market battle has been won convincingly.

phide
11-14-05, 11:37 PM
ATI is just out of luck. Nvidia has there number no matter what they do.

I don't think it will be terribly difficult to refresh the XT within a reasonable time span. Most cores seem to clock to 700 with the standard cooler, and with a newer, more refined cooler, it's a pretty easy trick to turn. R520 supports just about any memory you can stick on the PCB, including GDDR4, so Canada Red can feasibly bolt on extremely low latency GDDR4 and release an X1800XT Super Mega Edition within a couple months. It's also worth noting that the notorious 32 pixel pipe R580 has been taped for a little while now and eluded the gate problem that plagued R520's release. No matter how you slice it, R580 is a monster to end all monsters (except for G80...and so on).

Hell, they could tweak the core a bit like nVidia did and still release something fairly soon-ish.

And for reference, ATi was still the performance/IQ king up to the FX5900. And I think we can call R420/NV40 a tie (for ****s and giggles).

Posts like yours are where fanATics get their fuel. I'm sure that SSXeon kid prowls around the NVNews forums just searching for comments like yours to add to his kiddy-book of "Things That Are True But I Don't Believe Them Anyway".

evilchris
11-14-05, 11:40 PM
ATI has nothing. HQ AF which is better than NV's is not even close to a compelling enough reason to get worse performance, less quality AA, less compatability, crappy drivers, no linux support worth mentioning, OpenGL performance thats only good with game specific optimizations, etc.

HQ AF looks great in screenshots, though.

evilchris
11-14-05, 11:42 PM
And for reference, ATi was still the performance/IQ king up to the FX5900. And I think we can call R420/NV40 a tie (for ****s and giggles).




How were they the performance/IQ king "up to" the FX5900?

Please list the ATI cards that were blowing away the:

RIVA128
TNT
TNT2
GeForce DDR
GeForce2 GTS
GeForce2 Ultra
GeForce3
GeForce4 Ti4600

when those cards were released. ATI got the crown for the first time when 9700 Pro was released, and held it through the 9800 series. That's all.

phide
11-14-05, 11:49 PM
That's essentially what I meant.

Nv40
11-15-05, 12:48 AM
what is shimmering?


http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/09/08/cat58_shimmering/

Acid Rain
11-15-05, 05:31 AM
Oh get the bloody hell off it. Everytime Nvidia bitch-slaps ATI the fanatics crawl back to their IQ quality crapshoot. Ya shimmering sucks, but not having AA on becuase your card can't handle it sucks more. I remember when fans berated the GF4 Ti series because it didn't have pixel shader 1.4 support (only up to 1.3 vs the 8500's 1.4) and now they turn around and say SM 3.0 is just a marketing ploy and 2.0b is just as good. Short memories.:rolleyes:

When NV trumps ATi in the IQ department (I'd say they're about equal now in HQ mode), the fans will suddenly scream about ATi's superior performance (if there was any). Back and forth, with no reasoning capacity whatsoever.

The G7 series is yet another blockbuster win, in my opinion, which I have many a solid reason for.
what is shimmering?Set your display control panel image settings to "High Quality" and you'll never know.

Shimmering is pretty much a non-issue if you use "High Quality". If you notice it in any game in this mode, rest assured it's on ATi gear as well. I've seen this firsthand and I'm sure others in here with both (OWA) can attest to this.
Well the thing is my X850 didn't shimmer in the exact same spot in FarCry. So in that case I'm inclined to put the blame elsewhere (than the game).What drivers, what IQ settings? I have no problems whatsoever with this game on high quality, but I certainly do on the quality setting. Easy fix.

Riptide
11-15-05, 08:15 AM
What drivers, what IQ settings? I have no problems whatsoever with this game on high quality, but I certainly do on the quality setting. Easy fix.
78.03. But I wasn't using the highest quality setting and haven't gone back to test it since then. So to be fair it may actually be gone with that setting in place. I might give it a try when I have the chance this evening.

I will say this for ATI. I like how you can report a problem with the reference driver directly to them. NVidia has shielded themselves from having to support us directly. I can put a trouble ticket in with ATI even if I have a Sapphire board. I wish Nvidia would allow that sort of thing.

And as for the drivers I really don't find the NVidia drivers to be any better than the Catalyst. The 81.85 drivers were so godawful unstable for me I actually had to go back to 78.03 just to keep the system from blowing up left and right while in games. Oh and btw, it's nothing I was doing wrong. It's the driver. The problem just doesn't show up for everyone and on every system. And let me tell you when it happens to you it sure does suck to be that 5% or whatever that get cursed with these little problems.

Dazz
11-15-05, 08:28 AM
I am pretty sure if Ati used the same cooler that NV used they could sky rocket in clock speeds. Ati's current cooler is crap but i love NV's dual slot cooler a 92mm fan is whats needed now for video cards. Not some pathetic 60mm wine fan.