ATI's new memory controller shows its potential.

[evilchris]

500MHz may be a bit off too. :)

[shabby]

ATI now has a pretty good idea of what nVidia is capable of with the G70 core. And with the Xbox360 out of the way they can better beef up the R580. I'm betting that, just like in the past, ATI will claim the performance lead by a slim margin. Except this time around ATI's cards will not only claim the lead (barely), but they'll also sport the same features/capabilities as nVidia's top card.

According to ati the r580 was "in-house and ready for fall shipments" when the r520 launched in oct, so the only tweaking they can do after seeing the beastly 7800 "ultra" is to up the mhz again.

Then ATI changed their mind about the June launch and moved it to July and took a seat back and let Nvidia do their launch first.

Ati didnt change their mind about anything, they spent 6 months finding the soft ground fault in the r520... yup 6 months.

[TheGoose]

Whilst the potential for ATI is enormous, I'm excited by the X1800XT 256 version, as that's probably the best high end card in existence right now, ie, price/performance.

[Vagrant Zero]

Whilst the potential for ATI is enormous, I'm excited by the X1800XT 256 version, as that's probably the best high end card in existence right now, ie, price/performance.

What bullcrap, best price/performence would be the 7800GT or the 6800GS/6800GT [stock]. Modwise a GTO to XTPE is a steal. Depending on where you rate price vs performence. Either way the performence on a x1800xt isn't enough to warrent an extra $250 over a 7800GT.

[shabby]

Whilst the potential for ATI is enormous, I'm excited by the X1800XT 256 version, as that's probably the best high end card in existence right now, ie, price/performance.

Where exactly are these 256meg xt's? I havent seen any, only the 512meg ones.

[TheGoose]

Where exactly are these 256meg xt's? I havent seen any, only the 512meg ones.

There here in Australia, just wait a few weeks and they'll pop up.

[TheGoose]

What bullcrap, best price/performence would be the 7800GT or the 6800GS/6800GT [stock]. Modwise a GTO to XTPE is a steal. Depending on where you rate price vs performence. Either way the performence on a x1800xt isn't enough to warrent an extra $250 over a 7800GT.

The 7800GT is about $600 here, and the 1800XT 256 is $720, and being that the 1800XT 256 will be faster than the 7800GT in D3 and Q4, that's exciting and as everyone here agrees{to justify the 7800 512} you must pay a price premium for top performance.

[TheGoose]

There here in Australia, just wait a few weeks and they'll pop up.

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=x1800xt+256mb

1 $719.00
GECUBE RADEON X1800XT 256MB
Tiger Direct (QLD) | www.tigerdirect.com.au | updated: 19-11-2005

2 $729.00
GeXcube 256Mb GeCube ATi X1800 XT Dual DVI X-Fire (GC-X1800XTD-VID3)
Newcomputers.com.au (VIC) | www.newcomputers.com.au | updated: 19-11-2005
3 $745.00
Gecube Radeon X1800XT 256Mb 16xPCI-E Video Card + 2xDVI/VIVO
Secret Net (NSW) | www.secret.com.au | updated: 19-11-2005

4 $749.00
RX1800XTD-VI GeCube 256Mb Radeon X1800XTD Dual DVI GDDR3 VIVO PCI-Express
ITeLECTRICAL Computers (NSW) | www.itelectrical.com | updated: 18-11-2005


http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=x1800xl+256mb


$560.00
Gecube X1800XL Memory 1.0GHz Dual DVI GDDR3 256MB VIVO
Maco Technology (NSW) | www.macotechnology.com.au | updated: 18-11-2005
2 $574.00
RX1800XLD-VI GeCube 256Mb Radeon X1800XL Dual DVI GDDR3 VIVO PCI-Express
ITeLECTRICAL Computers (NSW) | www.itelectrical.com | updated: 18-11-2005
3 $599.00
Gecube ATI Radeon X1800XL Dual DVI, GDDR3, 256MB, VIVO, PCIE
I-Tech (NSW) | www.i-tech.com.au | updated: 19-11-2005

4 $610.00
HIS Radeon X1800XL 256Mb 16xPCI-E Video Card + 2xDVI/VIVO
Secret Net (NSW) | www.secret.com.au | updated: 19-11-2005

5 $615.00
POWERCOLOR PCIE X1800XL 256MB 2D VIVO
Maco Technology (NSW) | www.macotechnology.com.au | updated: 18-11-2005
6 $619.95
POWERCOLOR [ R52C-NVD ] PCIE X1800XL 256MB 2D/VIVO
A.i. Tech Computer (VIC) | shop.ai-tech.com.au | updated: 18-11-2005

[Vagrant Zero]

The 7800GT is about $600 here, and the 1800XT 256 is $720, and being that the 1800XT 256 will be faster than the 7800GT in D3 and Q4, that's exciting and as everyone here agrees{to justify the 7800 512} you must pay a price premium for top performance.

You'd be crazy to pay $600 for a card that you can get for half that price. Hit up E-bay, buy a GT from a powerseller [ie guy with a few 1000 positive feedback], most of them ship worldwide.

[Fotis]

Please don't turn this into an Nvidia vs ATI thread.This is a thread about ATI's new memory controller efficiency.
Thanks.:)

[deimos47ca]

AthlonXP1800: Although it is possible and feasable thats what happened, and the reason why ATI launched so late (Oct, and Nov for XT), I don't think they would have skipped a 500Mhz XT. Afterall, anything is better than nothing. Even a 500Mhz XT with its SM3 features, and supposedly improved memory controller, not to mention far faster memory, would at least affirm that ATI can do SM3 too. I also dont like ATI's cover story about some soft-ground or other.. 6 months is far longer than it takes to many route and timing analysis. In the end, I think only ATI really knows.. and I'm sure they want to put it behind them.

Re: the memory controller
Ok, I know that 4xAA uses more memory bandwidth, but fail to see how this emperical evidence shows the benefits of the new controller. Afterall, if even the X850XTPE takes similar relative small performance hits for 4xAA, wouldn't you think that ATI designs/drivers are just simply inherantly good at AA. Perhaps other features are not given their due, because of the publicity of the memory controller (I recall that the full-associated cache does wonders for BF2) Afterall, what specifically does the new memory controller allow? Higher bandwidth? Lower latency?

Many people sensationalized that ATI's new memory controller was necessary to be able to use such fast memory DDR1500.. but nVidia seems to be doing just fine with their "old" one in the 512MB GTX.

TheGoose:
X1800's are very nice cards. They have good features and would certainly make any PC gamer (including this 6800 owner) happy. If thats the one you prefer, no-one stopping you from getting it. Likewise, if you like the X800GTO please go ahead and buy it and enjoy all your games to your heart's content... we wont look-down at you if you dont buy nVidia ;)

[walterman]

Perhaps, they've 'smarter' memory controller, but, i think that they have advantage for non bw limited scenarios, cause, FSAA is done in the ROPs, & they've 16 ROPs at 625MHz vs 16 ROPs at 430/550 MHz in the GTX/GTX512.

"The ROPs (raster operators) pictured in the lower portion of the main chip block diagram handle the task of converting fragments into pixels by doing multisample antialiasing (if needed), doing color and Z compression, and writing the completed pixel value out to the frame buffer."

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/geforce-7800gtx/index.x?pg=2

[deimos47ca]

Perhaps, they've 'smarter' memory controller, but, i think that they have advantage for non bw limited scenarios, cause, FSAA is done in the ROPs, & they've 16 ROPs at 625MHz vs 16 ROPs at 430/550 MHz in the GTX/GTX512.

"The ROPs (raster operators) pictured in the lower portion of the main chip block diagram handle the task of converting fragments into pixels by doing multisample antialiasing (if needed), doing color and Z compression, and writing the completed pixel value out to the frame buffer."


http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/geforce-7800gtx/index.x?pg=2

You know, that might just be the simple reasonable explanation I was looking for.:afro:

[Redeemed]

Well, what about the memory controller being 512bit- is that true? I mean, isn't it kind of like 2x256 bit buses instead of 1x512bit bus?

[walterman]

Well, what about the memory controller being 512bit- is that true? I mean, isn't it kind of like 2x256 bit buses instead of 1x512bit bus?

"Communication is handled by means of a pair of 256-bit rings running in counter directions around the periphery of the chip. That makes for 512 bits of internal bandwidth, but external bandwidth to memory remains 256 bits."

"The new memory controller also offers more access granularity by dividing its external memory interface up into eight 32-bit channels rather than four 64-bit channels."

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q4/radeon-x1000/index.x?pg=2

There're 8x32bit memory channels. 2 chans are connected to each 'ring stop', & RS's use the 2x256bit ring bus (read & write paths). Each RS has 2 memory Client Interfaces, & all of them are connected to a main memory controller with read/write paths too. G70 memory controller uses 4x64bit channels.

The difference is that 8 channels should give more granularity (more memory accesses on the fly). But, both cards have the same memory bus width (8x32 = 4x64 = 256bits).

ATI did a very good work to increase granularity, but this design also can raise latencies in some cases, due to all the paths that a memory petition should travel from the memory chips to the fragment shaders. Of course this is minimized due to all the memory petitions on the fly that the controller can handle.