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AthlonXP1800
11-19-05, 11:15 AM
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=399020&st=0

All XBox 360 games looked much better on HDTVs so people with standard TVs will be left in huge disappointment, all games ran on SDTVs looked really very auwful, it looked far much worsen quality I ever seen just like my old 20 inch TV in early 1990s picture quality was very dull compared to newer 21 inch TV in 2001 offered very sharp clearer picture quality.

This probably will be put people off buy Xbox 360 off until they save up to buy HDTV first.

Bad_Boy
11-19-05, 11:26 AM
lol @ kameo on a sdtv
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2221/kameo37hi.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8020/kameo16uk.jpg

makes it look like a ps2 title.

hdtv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>....>>>>sdtv :p



This probably will be put people off buy Xbox 360 off until they save up to buy HDTV first.yeah, either that or buy a nice big crt/lcd to plug it into

Mr. Hunt
11-19-05, 11:38 AM
This probably will be put people off buy Xbox 360 off until they save up to buy HDTV first.

Sort of is for me... I mean... none of the games interest me right now, but I am definitely waiting until I get a good HD set so I can actually see the games the way they are meant to be seen.

Same goes with the PS3... I need a HD set first :\.

brady
11-19-05, 11:49 AM
Well I hope it puts enough people off so that I can cruise into Wal-Mart monday night and pick one up.

AthlonXP1800
11-19-05, 01:02 PM
Sort of is for me... I mean... none of the games interest me right now, but I am definitely waiting until I get a good HD set so I can actually see the games the way they are meant to be seen.

Same goes with the PS3... I need a HD set first :\.

Yeah, I am glad I picked the right LCDTV 2 years ago that are HDTV ready. :D

But... here a problem, in the next few years here will be multi HD sources and both HDTVs and LCDTVs have only 1 DVI port like mine. I will need 4 HD sources from PS3, PC, Blu-Ray recorder and HD digital decoder from Telewest, people cant just simply plug 4 DVI cables into one DVI port so they will need 4x1 HDTV Switcher (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1990) box, it is HDCP compliant.

Mr_LoL
11-19-05, 01:35 PM
Yep I will definately have to invest in an HDTV first before I get a PS3. I never knew the difference between HDTV and SDTV was so great.

GamerGuyX
11-19-05, 01:38 PM
I never knew the difference between HDTV and SDTV was so great.

:eek2: (omg)

Toss3
11-19-05, 01:47 PM
:eek2: (omg)
well, I bet there are alot of people who are going to be dissapointed this christmas! Not all of us have HDTV's already... But can you connect the xbox360 to your Lcd screen?

EDIT: I just can't understand why they wouldn't look the same, only slightly lower quality on SDTV, when I can play my games on my computer on my TV and they would look almost the same except for some differences..

Mr_LoL
11-19-05, 01:50 PM
:eek2: (omg)
Extremely sorry for my complete lack of intelligence Master GaminglordX. I mean if we were all as knowledgble and as good looking as you the world will be a much better place. In fact I blame it all on Bush. :rolleyes:

GamerGuyX
11-19-05, 02:03 PM
But can you connect the xbox360 to your Lcd screen?

Obviously. Thats what the VGA cable is for:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/default.htm

Extremely sorry for my complete lack of intelligence Master GaminglordX. I mean if we were all as knowledgble and as good looking as you the world will be a much better place.

Well thats good to hear. The first step to the road of recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Rakeesh
11-19-05, 02:06 PM
Hmm...seems the xbox 360 wont support DVI. That is kinda gay, it only supports analog outputs.

hordaktheman
11-19-05, 02:41 PM
What the hell are you on about? It's not like hi-def is gonna be enabling any new effects, it's just a higher resolution. As long as the standard def is running in widescreen w/ RGB cables, the average Joe will be hard pressed to even tell the difference. At a 9 feet distance, a quality signal goes a much longer way than the actual resolution.

The actual change in pixel density is only equivalent to going from 640x480 to 960x720, which is hardly a revolutionary jump.

Ruined
11-19-05, 03:47 PM
lol @ kameo on a sdtv

Not a good comparison, those shots appear to be running on ultra low quality RF or Composite video instead of Svideo/Component that most SDTVs support these days. You can tell by the rainbows in the lettering and severe mosquito noise.

evilchris
11-19-05, 03:49 PM
Yeah, I am glad I picked the right LCDTV 2 years ago that are HDTV ready. :D

But... here a problem, in the next few years here will be multi HD sources and both HDTVs and LCDTVs have only 1 DVI port like mine. I will need 4 HD sources from PS3, PC, Blu-Ray recorder and HD digital decoder from Telewest, people cant just simply plug 4 DVI cables into one DVI port so they will need 4x1 HDTV Switcher (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1990) box, it is HDCP compliant.

Just get a decent receiver and have it do your switching.

evilchris
11-19-05, 03:51 PM
well, I bet there are alot of people who are going to be dissapointed this christmas! Not all of us have HDTV's already... But can you connect the xbox360 to your Lcd screen?

EDIT: I just can't understand why they wouldn't look the same, only slightly lower quality on SDTV, when I can play my games on my computer on my TV and they would look almost the same except for some differences..
NTSC 480: 720x480 = 345,600 pixels
ATSC 720: 1280x720 = 921,600 pixels
ATSC 1080: 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels

Slight?

evilchris
11-19-05, 03:52 PM
What the hell are you on about? It's not like hi-def is gonna be enabling any new effects, it's just a higher resolution. As long as the standard def is running in widescreen w/ RGB cables, the average Joe will be hard pressed to even tell the difference. At a 9 feet distance, a quality signal goes a much longer way than the actual resolution.

The actual change in pixel density is only equivalent to going from 640x480 to 960x720, which is hardly a revolutionary jump.

720p is 1280x720. Even average joe who is blind can see a massive difference between HDTV and SDTV.

Vagrant Zero
11-19-05, 03:57 PM
Obviously. Thats what the VGA cable is for:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/default.htm



Well thats good to hear. The first step to the road of recovery is admitting you have a problem.


BAH screw those crappy ass vga adapters. Get a GOOD Capture card with component inputs [ala Sweetspot card], then run your system through Dscaler.

hordaktheman
11-19-05, 04:33 PM
720p is 1280x720. Even average joe who is blind can see a massive difference between HDTV and SDTV.Yeah, but 1280x720 is 16:9, while 640x480 is 4:3. That's why I mentioned pixel density, as you want to compare apples to apples, which means pixels/square inch. That means you have to compare resolutions at the same aspect ratio.

For such comparision to be meaningful, you have to compare either 640x480 to 960x720 (for 4:3), or 852x480 to 1280x720 (for 16:9). Those are the relative differences between the resolutions in question, and if you want to try a Pepsi challenge, those are the resolutions you'd compare on, for example, a vga monitor. Same goes for the jump from EDTV to HDTV. The difference is noticable, but not revolutionary, and nowhere near enough to spoil the enjoyment of the experience.

The point is that the difference in quality most people attribute to the jump from standard-def to hi-def has much less to do with the actual resolution than the move from a composite cable to an RGB (component) cable.

evilchris
11-19-05, 06:17 PM
I got ya hordak. True RE: 4:3 vs 16:9 and pixel density.

Still, if you take a component fed 480 TV source and compare to a component fed 1080 source, the difference is night and day imo.

Another good comparison is a widescreen DVD ( using a progressive scan player with component outputs ) versus an HBO HD broadcast of the same movie ( using a Scientfic Atlanta 8300HD cable box with component outputs ). The HD version is night and day versus the DVD.

Bad_Boy
11-19-05, 06:37 PM
Not a good comparison, those shots appear to be running on ultra low quality RF or Composite video instead of Svideo/Component that most SDTVs support these days. You can tell by the rainbows in the lettering and severe mosquito noise.
the difference is still huge, and will still look like crap compared to hdtv setups. many reviews have already stated this. i dunno about you, but im glad ill have a hdtv for next gen gaming. like evilchris said, the difference is night and day.

evilchris
11-19-05, 06:51 PM
Bad_Boy and I have agreed on something. Hell hath frozen o'er. :)

Diamond_G
11-20-05, 04:07 AM
Since I have had my HDTV for over a year now I have noticed that if the source isn't high def to begin with, it doesn't look very good. I mean it looks alright, but nothing like a high def source. If you are playing a game using a standard def tv and that is all your used to then getting the new xbox is almost a waste. Especially if the games are coded for the higher rez (and from the looks of the screenshots the scaler doesn't seem to be used as well as it could be).

IMO using the component inputs on SD with even 480p still doesn't look as good as 720p.

Toss3
11-20-05, 05:11 AM
NTSC 480: 720x480 = 345,600 pixels
ATSC 720: 1280x720 = 921,600 pixels
ATSC 1080: 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels

Slight?

I know I know, but it still looks kindah the same.. :rolleyes: What I meant was that the games that I play on my TV do look like the same games I play on my computer! There isn't a very big difference, not at all like those screenshots seems to convey! I could take some pictures to show you but all my games look like crap on my geforce 2 anyway... and it doesn't have a TV/s-video out! :D

Slybri
11-21-05, 11:20 AM
I bought a new HDTV about 6 months ago, just so I could hook up these new consoles. But looking at the XBOX360 release lineup and the prices and the sinister marketing ads I think I'll skip it.
I'm playing Dragon Quest VIII on the good ole PS2 and having a blast. I've got Oblivion pre-ordered for the PC and I've already played Quake 4 and COD2. Those are the only games of the lineup I was interested in. There really isn't any compelling reason to own a 360 for me right now.

If they release a kick ass 360 exclusive RPG...then we'll talk.

ajay()
11-23-05, 02:57 AM
After reading all this I could really do with some advice. I'd like to appreciate the 360 in all it's glory, but I can't afford an HDTV (to be honest I'm currently contemplating upgrading my 6800u to a 7800 instead... but probably won't :) )
Anyway would I be right in saying that the cheapest option would be getting a pc monitor and a vga box?
In addition, would the quality be as good as it would be if played through a £1000 hdtv?
Will all games be compatible (I'm just casting my mind back to Dreamcast days!)
Can anyon recommend both a monitor and a 360 compatible vga box?
(I'm in the uk btw)
Thanks for you help, in advance.