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aAv7
11-19-05, 08:54 PM
Ok, ok....so it's been a while since I ranted about something, so to the ones here that hate me, pardon my thread. To those that can tolerate me, come with me for a ride through my issues and sarcasm. :D

Xbox 360

It's the hot issue these days. Pc gamer's think (some) that it's a threat to pc gaming.

While i've defended and will continue to defend pc gaming, there are issues as a pc gamer I have that are starting to almost make me want to sell my rig and run with a xbox 360 hooked up to my 19" monitor (i found out it's possible and nearly plotz myself with shock)

What ticks me off as a strictly Pc Gamer? Here's my list...

1.) Half-Assed support.

I don't care if your system doesn't stutter. MINE does. So do many other people's machines, on this board and around the internet, Steams most looked at thread on it's own damn forum is the " Half life 2 stuttering issue" Thread. A problem is obvious, if you don;t have it, don;t be so ignorant as to say the engine is fine, it "ain't".

What does Valve do? They address the issue the night of the release and then never make mention of it again. Oh yeah, wait, the one time they released an update " fixing the stuttering issue " which fixed it for some, broke it for others, and left some gamer's such as myself, still as screwed up as the day I installed it. So they mentioned it twice over a year's time.

This is one of the most important, one of the biggest and well-known PC Gaming Developer's in the community today and look at how sloppy they represent our medium.

Not only is it just sad they have to over-look the issue and pretend it's not there by hiding behind their " game of the year " awards. But what that shows our community and what that does to gamers....that kills what we love. It leaves the industry stuck in this little piece of the market with no room to grow. Imagine you bring a friend over....show him Half-Life 2 @ 1600x1200 4xTSAA 16xAF, 21" inch lcd.

His jaw drops. He's sucked into a world a t.v was always unable to bring him to. The sharp quality, the graphics, the use of a mouse and keyboard....everything clicks. And then...stutter....stutter....stutter....he asks " why's it keep skipping? " And your reply...." ah that's the game...they never fixed it." Do you think that makes him want to jump into this market? Hell no. Invest $1800 in a high-end pc and get stuttering?

Ok, so we skip that ONE game, cause I know you need more. You can't base it on just one issue, but to sum up the first issue, I'm sick of seeing not just valve, but plenty of other companies screwing us over with bad coding, un-finshed products, constant delays, etc.

Horrible Ports.

NFL MADDEN 06, NBA LIVE 06, King Kong, Call of Duty 2.....why are all of these on the pc, but not matching the quality of the console, xbox 360's visual quality? Why did we get the madden 06 and nba live 06 ps2/xbox1/GC port version instead of the xbox360 version? You're telling me a 7800GTX, the same card that will be in the PS3, can't keep up with an xbox 360 port (again if coded right)?

King Kong has a graphical update....but doesnt that cost more? We got a ps2 port to begin with and now we gotta pay even more for the patch to upgrade it to look like the xbox 360 version, then we gotta watch it as a slide show cause the developers didnt bother to take time to code it with care, optimize for our cards (whether it be ati/nvidia) and check for bugs, etc.

"Nah, just throw them a bone, they'll bite. No one else is even bothering so we'll look great just by a half assed attempt."

Micosoft


Microsoft's OS's are hogs. XP is another good reason as to why ports run like poop vs. consoles. ( Tho developers could still put fourth much better effort) Billy and the crew promised in several conferences and expos that they were dedicating themselves to PC gaming once again. That they were going to focus on pc gaming equally as much as they will focus on xbox 360. I have yet to see one PC game commerical, I lost count on how many xbox 1 and xbox 360 commercials i've seen this week.

I see plenty of xbox and xbox 360 advertising in magazines, but nothing for pc games.

The video game stores I shop at have HUGE sections for consoles and stuck in that dirty, dusty corner, in the back next to the door where the crew walks in and out. (and p*sses you off everytime they gotta walk through and bump into you giving you that look of pity for even being back in that section)

Where's the money to move that section up next to that xbox and xbox 360 section that hits me in the face as soon as I walk in. How come there are no big promo posters for pc games? All I see are console ones. Why doesn't anyone working at these places know nothing about pc games.

Come on Microsoft where's the support at? Where's vista? Where's the support for pc games like you said?

I heard porting an xbox 360 title to pc is really easy, and microsoft made it that way.....so why is it only one developer chose to go that route (king kong) with a patch nonetheless.

How can this industry of ours thrive when the people that are running it are running it into the ground?

We are so much more passionate about our games. We build our own rigs, we support our developers, and in return, they take a big dump on us.

I think the general theme is we're getting shafted. We spend 4 times the price 5 times sooner than console upgrades, and get a 6th of the support.

Yet when they look at the big picture, they ask themselves " why isn't the pc market in the same shape it was 10 years ago"?

I wonder....

So here's to Epic. One developer that does it's best to support and help the pc gaming community thrive. Thank you guys. If only the others would go ahead based on your example.

I love my pc and I love pc gaming. But damn are they making it hard to not want to just run to a console and it's great developer support.

Arachnid
11-19-05, 09:14 PM
Ohh man this is just so true, I absolutely agree. PC gamers have been on the receiving end of the raw deal since a long time now. Look at King-Kong for example, "hey you want the uber edition..sorry only way to get it is to download 6GB and oh yes better have 2GB RAM, a 7800GTX, FX 57...blah blah blah to run it at 20 fps OR get the half assed "standard edition for you non 1337 PC...sorry we were too busy coding the game for the XBox360 and can't optimise it for you"...arrrarghhhh!!!!

Earlier we used to get ****ty ported games from the PS2 and XBox, now we get the remenants /left overs of the uber next gen console ports....

I love my two Personal Computers (PCs) and I love PC gaming....all hail PC gaming. [/mini rant]

There happy? ...."unnecessay".... what the hell is that?

superklye
11-19-05, 09:25 PM
Why do people continue to use unnecessay apostrophes? :(

TheGoose
11-19-05, 10:35 PM
As I've said elsewhere, DON'T overspend until the games reach a higher standard, hopefully within the next 12-18months.

CaptNKILL
11-19-05, 10:35 PM
Why do people continue to use unnecessay apostrophes? :(
JUST to piss you off kyle, thats why :p

And I agree on some of the original poster's points...

stncttr908
11-19-05, 10:42 PM
Why do people continue to use unnecessay apostrophes? :(
Hahaha, that's funny.

Consoles are where the money is, plain and simple.

jAkUp
11-19-05, 11:12 PM
There will be Dell machines in some Gamestops, showing off the latest PC Games, they are gonna make shelf space for the boxes themselves, and focus a great deal of attention on PC Gaming when Vista launches.

I guess they realized there is more money to be made in selling new computers with Vista Ultimate rather than an XB360 :)

If you guys want to see PC Gaming grow, there needs to be more games bought, not less. Why do you think they are starting to ignore us? Sales have been dropping on PC Games. Sales go up, developers switch to PC, put more resources into a pcgame, etc. and we all win.

Check this out:

DALLAS -- The last few years have not been all fun and games for computer game fans, but that might be changing.

As attention has shifted to sophisticated video-game consoles such as the Xbox and PlayStation 2, PC gamers have watched their preferred platform wither.

Retailers have been squeezing shelf space for PC games to accommodate more console and hand-held titles, and many PC game creators have migrated to the console market.

PC game sales in the United States peaked at $2 billion in 1999 and then fell every year after that, landing at $1.1 billion last year.

Console game sales, on the other hand, were already twice the size of PC game sales in 1999 and have increased every year since, reaching $6.2 billion in 2004.

But several major companies--including Microsoft Corp. and heavyweights such as GameStop Corp. and Dell Inc.--are trying to revitalize PC gaming.

"The shelf space has been shrinking," said Chris Donahue, director for the Windows gaming and graphics team at Microsoft. "We underinvested in making sure that hasn't happened, and that's one of the things we're going to fix."

The big boys are getting help from scores of smaller game developers and sellers who want to bypass retail shelves altogether and turn online game sales and downloads into a thriving industry.

Microsoft--which makes the Xbox game console and its coming successor, the Xbox 360--is one of the companies responsible for the ascendancy of console gaming.

In 2001, the Xbox console was launched with a multimillion-dollar advertising blitz.

Last year, Microsoft pushed video-game hype into a new realm with the release of its Xbox game "Halo 2." Sales of "Halo 2" hit $125 million on the first day of availability, the largest first-day gross of any entertainment product in history, to that point.

Now, the Xbox 360 is set to hit Nov. 22, and Microsoft has proclaimed its goal to attract 1 billion gamers.

Whether or not that lofty pinnacle is reached, it's clear that Microsoft, as well as competitors Sony and Nintendo, have turned console gaming into a mainstream entertainment medium on par with movies and music.

Lost in the shuffle has been the PC, the original king of interactive entertainment.

Dan DeMatteo, chief operating officer and vice chairman at GameStop, a Grapevine, Texas-based video-game retailer, recalls two decades ago when consoles were mere upstarts.

"I remember when, back when I was at Software Etc., the day came when console games became 25 percent of my business, and I said, `Oh, my goodness, this is terrible,'" he said.

Now, GameStop--which recently spent $1.4 billion to acquire its biggest competitor, Electronics Boutique Holdings Corp.--reserves about 85 percent of its store shelves for console games, DeMatteo said.

"I would hate to see it go away," he said of the PC games segment. "I wouldn't be the one to cause it to go away. If the consumer is there and publishers are making good games for the PC, I will be there."

The Dallas area is home to some of the hottest PC gamemakers in the world.

Ensemble Studios, a Microsoft-owned studio based in Dallas, is finishing up "Age of Empires III," an eagerly awaited update to its empire simulation series.

Even bigger is Id Software, in the suburb of Mesquite, creator of the "Doom" and "Quake" franchises.

At a game expo in August, Id Chief Executive Todd Hollenshead said the slide in PC game sales is pushing developers to consoles such as the Xbox 360 and Sony's coming PlayStation 3.

"`Doom 3' did very well on the PC platform, but those macro trends at some point come to bear and start having issues for the market overall," he said.

Another challenge for the PC games industry is that many gamers never see titles that lack the name recognition of "Doom." GameStop is looking to change that.

GameStop has more than 4,000 retail locations--mostly in the U.S., with a growing presence in Europe--making it by far the largest games-only retailer in the country.

Many of its stores have demo kiosks for consoles such as the PlayStation 2 or Nintendo DS so gamers can try before they buy.

Testing a PC game has been impossible. Not anymore. In a trial collaboration announced a few weeks ago, GameStop and Round Rock, Texas-based Dell have rolled out computer game kiosks in 25 GameStop stores.

Customers can test a handful of the best PC games the same way they test-drive the latest PS2 release.

The kiosks will be powered by Dell's revamped and supercharged XPS computers, coupled with 42-inch Dell high-definition plasma monitors.

Todd Bartee, director of sales for Dell's consumer team, said that while it's too early to quantify the results of the GameStop collaboration, anecdotal observation of a GameStop store in Austin, Texas, has him excited.

"It's the hit of the store," he said. "It's in the premier location, and all the kids are lined up playing on it."

While Dell and GameStop focus on the hardware, Microsoft is campaigning to bring enthusiasm back to Windows as a gaming platform, culminating in the release sometime next year of Windows Vista.

When that operating system launches, Microsoft will treat it as if it were launching a new video game console, Donahue said.

Vista is being designed as the most game-friendly Windows operating system ever, and it will include prominent game folders on the main Start menu so users don't have to hunt through a list of all their applications to find their installed games.

In addition, Microsoft is campaigning for game developers to start releasing their games on DVDs instead of just CDs, to eliminate the bulky multiple-CD sleeves needed for the most sophisticated titles.

Donahue said Microsoft is also encouraging companies to enable their games to start playing as soon as they're inserted into the computer, rather than forcing users to install the game on the PC's hard drive.

That would allow PC games to match some of the plug-and-play capabilities that have made consoles so popular.

"If you think about a 5-year-old that wants to play `Reader Rabbit' and they have to sit though an install process, it shouldn't be like that," Donahue said.

While billion-dollar firms such as GameStop, Microsoft and Dell may be leading the charge for PC games, there are other soldiers on the battlefield.

On Oct. 17, for example, Turner Broadcasting launched GameTap, a service that lets PC users download and play a variety of mostly older titles for a monthly subscription fee.

And small independent PC game developers that would never get their products on store shelves may soon find a home at Manifesto Games. The site will start selling downloadable PC games next year.

Perhaps the biggest proponent of downloadable PC games is Valve Corp., which sold its blockbuster "Half-Life 2" both in stores and through its Steam download service.

With the new focus on PC games in retail stores and the ability to buy and download games online, industry professionals insist there is a future for the PC games industry that doesn't include a eulogy.

"With the new consoles coming out--and I said this five years ago when the PS2 and Xbox came out--people all rush to ring the bell for the death knell of PC gaming, and it never seems to happen, and I don't think we're looking at that now, either," Hollenshead said.

jAkUp
11-19-05, 11:31 PM
NFL MADDEN 06, NBA LIVE 06, King Kong, Call of Duty 2.....why are all of these on the pc, but not matching the quality of the console, xbox 360's visual quality? Why did we get the madden 06 and nba live 06 ps2/xbox1/GC port version instead of the xbox360 version? You're telling me a 7800GTX, the same card that will be in the PS3, can't keep up with an xbox 360 port (again if coded right)?

Well, if you read the reviews of these games on XB360, they are half assed also. I would imagine those games would not have been ready for the PC Release. Not only does the PC need more extensive testing, but they were also released earlier on PC. I bet you next year we will see XB360 ports.

walterman
11-19-05, 11:34 PM
If you guys want to see PC Gaming grow, there needs to be more games bought, not less. Why do you think they are starting to ignore us? Sales have been dropping on PC Games. Sales go up, developers switch to PC, put more resources into a pcgame, etc. and we all win.

Totally agree, i buy what i really like !

evilchris
11-20-05, 12:56 AM
I bet half the PC gamers who bitch about this sort of thing don't even buy games. They pirate them and then act like they "support PC gaming".

Scunner
11-20-05, 01:04 AM
I bet half the PC gamers who bitch about this sort of thing don't even buy games. They pirate them and then act like they "support PC gaming".

:clap2:

Well said.

einstein_314
11-20-05, 01:14 AM
I bet half the PC gamers who bitch about this sort of thing don't even buy games. They pirate them and then act like they "support PC gaming".
I bet you your right.

john19055
11-20-05, 01:53 AM
well it is hard to blame the Developer's when it is easier to make a game run on one or two system,instead of haveing to make it compatible to work on a pc which has so many different setups instead of one like the Xbox360,plus the graphics on the XB360 looks as good as PC graphics,but you will be able to upgrade the graphics on a Pc.Plus consoles are getting a lot better each generation,and if you are just wanting a unit to play games and don't like the hassle of messing with setting up a PC, then it is cheaper to go the XB360 route,all you have to do is buy the games.
But if you are a true Gamer then the hassle of setting of a PC is what makes it so fun ,I just don't see it getting any easier for pc gamers when they can make more money makeing games for consoles and they sell a lot more games for consoles then they do for the PC's ,I just see us getting the left overs of what the developer wants to port.

Riptide
11-20-05, 02:27 AM
I bet you your right.
Ditto. Piracy is absolutely rampant with PCs. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect there but I have cleaned up my act quite a bit in the last few years. Even Windows is paid for now. :p

Most of my friends freely copy games to each other. I even have an acquaintance who returns games after he copies them and sometimes even puts a music CD in the box and keeps the original for himself because he knows wal-mart staff won't check it. It makes me a little irritated every time I hear about it but there isn't anything I can do. I just don't let my friends copy my games and I don't let them put an illegal copy on my computer - or if they do I just trash it after they leave lol.

Edge
11-20-05, 03:49 AM
I think the primary reason is simply because of the non-standard nature of PC hardware. As mentioned before, on a console, developers have one set of hardware to develop for and one hardware configuration to plan for. With PCs, developers have to support a wide range of hardware, and that almost always means that they can't plan their game around the highest-end hardware availible. For example, lets say a developer makes an online game that uses pixel shaders for shadow effects...how can they possibly decide to support non-pixel shader hardware when doing so would give people with lower-end hardware an advantage (since other players couldn't hide in shadows)? Bottom line is, they can't, so the options left to them are either to plan all the effects around the lowest-end hardware availible and then simply add a few non-gameplay affecting effects for better hardware, or cut off low-end hardware (which can hurt sales). In almost every case, they choose the former.

The Gamer's Edition of King Kong is a good example of the real-world effect of this. That version of the game simply couldn't be scaled back for older hardware, so the regular version of it is the only one that's availible in stores. If they hadn't needed to worry about older hardware, then the "Gamer's Edition" would've been the ONLY version out there. Instead, to compensate for lower-end hardware, the only version availible in stores is the low-end one. It doesn't matter that there's hardware out there that COULD run the GE edition, the problem is that it's not mainstream enough for developers to start building their games around it. And if you read the post written by a Croteam member on Serious Sam 2, they mentioned that the reason they didn't release a DVD version was because some people simply didn't have DVD drives. Since the GE of King Kong would almost certainly need to be distributed on DVD, that cuts out even more people that could potentially buy the game (although who would have a $300+ videocard but not a DVD drive is beyond me). How can developers plan on building their games around high-end hardware when they can't even count on people to have a freaking $20 DVD drive?

So, basically, without needing to worry about low-end hardware, consoles can accomplish much more even though their raw specs might not match up. And with the price of PC components getting higher and higher, consoles are becoming an even more attractive option for those who want the latest and greatest technology but don't have a limitless budget. Now it's getting to the point where people are choosing between upgrading a single component on their PC, or buying an entirely new console which gives them access to a whole range of new games (something new hardware almost never does, since it simply improves what you can already play). PC gaming will never die: there will always be projects, big or small, in development for it. But it's not surprising that the focus is staying on consoles. After all, why would stores prominantly display ads for Battlefield 2 or King Kong G.E. when half the copies would end up being returned by people complaining that the game doesn't work on their E-machines?

JamesDax
11-20-05, 07:59 AM
If Dell wants to sell Game PCs they better start using AMD. As for the subject of this thread, like others have said there is just more money in consoles right now.

Arachnid
11-20-05, 08:05 AM
Hmm.. this is turning out to be a nice thread, I have to agree it must be much easier to develop games for the consoles because there is just one standard design, whereas there are a very large number of different types of computers and the game has to be made in such a manner that it scales well on all that type of hardware.
Also consoles are definitely where the money is, hence the focus of game developers is more on developing games for the consoles.

As far as supporting PC Gaming is concerned, well I have certainly cleaned up my act in the last two-three years, I only buy select games, but I buy them honest.

Also it's much easier to buy a console and not have to worry about the game's minimum specs, whether it will work or not?, why there is so much stutter?, why does the game keep crashing to the desktop?, why does my new high end PC which was bought to play the latest games with ease not able to run them as smoothly?. It is difficult and expensive to keep upgrading hardware every six months if you want the best or anywhere near it.

Console games however are very expensive though, sometimes they cost two to three times as much as the computer games. As far as piracy is concerned, I don't think consoles are spared, many people simply buy modded consoles to enable them to run the "pirated" console games which they can get just as easily as the pirated PC games......maybe it is a bit less rampant as compared to piracy in PC gaming.

Nitz Walsh
11-20-05, 11:05 AM
MS's push for PC gaming isn't going to happen until Vista/DX10 - of course you're not going to see ads for PC games now, they're going to hype the 360 to high heaven. You'll have to wait until fall/winter 06 before this PC gaming push takes off.

As mentioned, MS will be basically positioning Vista/DX10 as a new games "platform" unto itself. DX10 will have tight restrictions with regards to how features are implemented to ease compatibility, vendors will basically have to differentiate themselves largely on performance as opposed to how a particular feature looks.

Basically there's just too many variables in PC gaming hardware, that not only increases the hassle for developers for confusion for the consumers - and that's assuming the game even works correctly right out of the box. Vista is supposed to improve on this greatly so...we'll see.

Another problem is that by and large, the majority of the gaming public just doesn't care about the advantages a PC can offer that much. Look at Half Life 2 Xbox, it's getting rave reviews. Compared to my XP2500/6600GT setup (low-end these days), it's well...sad (I rented it to see). Impressive considering the specs of the Xbox, but for me it chugs so much that it's almost unplayable, whereas most don't seem to mind or just have no basis of reference to compare with the PC version. Doesn't help that the general sentiment of reviews seems to be "Well, if you don't have a $3000 PC..." - further cementing in the mind of the clueless that PC gaming is a $3000 and up hobby, when in fact a $800 rig today would give a far, far better experience.

For example, IGN's review:

So if your set-up is burly and God-like in power, you will probably have a better looking version of Half-Life 2 than the one on Xbox. Then again, you will also probably have a better looking version of Half-Life 2 than most people who own PCs. Without getting into number comparisons, Half-Life 2 on Xbox runs better than an average PC computer, with high particle physics on, but without the high resolution graphics dialed all to 10.
Absolute bullcrap. A celeron with a 6200 will run HL2 far better than the Xbox version from what I've played, but the insinutation here that if your PC isn't "god like", then the Xbox version is better, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Having said all that, if you don't have a billion dollar PC set-up and you're itching for this fall's knockout title? Um, yeah: Half-Life 2 is it
:rolleyes:

Edit: I kind of pulled the $800 number out of my ass, so I was curious as to what a name-brand OEM (that sells Athlon 64's of course) could offer. Here's what I got:

HP PC with:
Athlon 64 3200
1 GB ram
160GB 7200 rpm drive
Firewire + USB ports
Speakers + subwoofer
DL 16X DVD-+R burner
mutlimedia keyboard, optical mouse
HP Deskjet printer
Integrated radeon graphics

Total price (after $130 rebate):$568.99. That's a pretty loaded system, even with printer + speakers. It even has an attractive case with stealthed CD bays and a slide-down door hiding the front mounted ports.

And yes, it has a PCI-E16X slot, so you have the option to get a decent GPU - tack on another ~$140 for a 6600GT, bringing the total to under $800 for a frickin' A64 system. I just saw G4's "review" of HL2 on Attack of the Show, and the host mentioned "Well, if you don't have a $3000 PC...". For pete's sake people! Just because you have the option of purchasing SLI 512meg 7800GTX's, doesn't mean that it's required.

Oh, another thing - $%$#% Dell's low-end machines with no PCi-EX16 or AGP slots. Your average consumer doesn't get it that Intel "Extreme" means "Extremely bad" - I can't recall how many times I've seen newbs on message boards wondering how to speed up Doom3 on their $500 Dell that could run it fine if there was only the option of sticking in a decent GPU; they're confused as "I have a 3Ghz processor!? Why doesn't it run well?". Dell saves $10 on the motherboard if there's no graphics slot, so nope - they're screwed, and likely just go out and buy a console.

Shaitan
11-20-05, 11:18 AM
I wanna know wtf devs push so hard for visuals and sound immersion in PC games, only to dumbazz them down with console kiddie indicators. Vietcongs devs dumbed down VC 2. ????? COD 2? Pretty awesome, but again dumbed down. No semi auto fire? Rets that light up? Epic game, but they delivery quaker maps for mp?

Heck, Devs are going so far now to deliver no sp/co op modes at all. 1 gameplay mode. Very few maps. The list goes on. Here we have WAY powerful machines compared to years ago, but years ago they game us more game. ????? Peeps are happy with 5 to 10 hours of sp content now? Very little replay value is ok? A totally scripted lead you around by the nose sp game is just what the doctor ordered?

IMHO PC gaming is de evolving. Soon it won`t fuxoring matter IF consoles take over. Our PC games are being consolized by the very devs who make them. All for easy ports over to the...... consoles. It is happening right before your eyes. And PC gamers are just gonna roll over and take it. Like they are right now.

Nitz Walsh
11-20-05, 11:22 AM
And PC gamers are just gonna roll over and take it. Like they are right now.
So...what do you plan to do about it? Storm Infinity Wards offices?

Not buy the PC version? Bingo - PC sales are flat, so then they'll only develop for consoles. Consoles sell far, far more than PC games for a reason - the features we care about are simply a small niche of the overall market. I'd like very film out of Hollywood to have an interesting plot and good character development, but obviously that's not what sells the most.

fade11
11-20-05, 11:48 AM
Didnt' read your post fully, it just seemed to be mindless complaining.

Look, the pc is not a set platform. It's a bunch of parts cobbled together by Winxows XP. Sorry it's NOT buggy and it's NOT a hog. It's very solid, it's generally pretty damn good considering it's trying to support INFINITY hardware combinations.

You unleash venom at MS and Valve..

a) MS is doing NOTHING to hold back gaming on the XP. XP is not a hog like you say. XP using a little bit of extra memory for it's uncessary processes shouldn't effect games in the slightest. What you have read and mindlessly quoted that XP is a hog.....this is when compared to stripped down *nix variants, and has NOTHING to do with gaming. What operating system for pc runs games any better? Exactly none. Gaming on linux or anything else pc related sucks balls.


b)VALVE? It's valves fault that their games dont work on your PC? NO. Sorry, valve do a fantastic job, and Steam engine games run great on my mediocre PC. Something is wrong with your pc or driver setup, that's not valves fault.

Basically your post is 100% childish complaining because you get stuttering in valve games.

Shoddy console ports?? Who's fault is that? Do you know the PC gaming industry is about 5% the size of console gaming industry? Understand supply and demand? Be grateful companies bother to port their games at ALL. There is no motivation for them to spend money on PC ports when teenagers like you just download the games anyway, gg.

If you just dropped thousands on a **** hot pc to play console ports, tough luck, you made a stupid decision.

The pc games industry is a tiny hardcore community, and your expectations are retarded.

If you are jealous of the XBOX360, and you bought your pc to make your friends jealous, STUPID decision, your pc is about to look like ass compared to your friends $500 console.

And no, xbox360 graphically thrashing your expensive pc is not "bad programming on pc" You are obviously not a developer. You having the latest and greatest graphics card doesn't mean crap. Developers won't exclusively support that card, and will have to program for much older cards, so there CANNOT be an efficiency of programming you get on a console. It's not lazyness, it's engineering.

And let me re-emphasise, your PC stuttering problems are either a) your fault b) your cheap overclocked hardwares fault or c) a bug that will be fixed eventually, welcome to pc gaming.

I'm betting on A though. But then again, if you wanted 100% stability and very few problems, you should have bought and intel platform (cpu AND motherboard) those things are rocks.

fade11
11-20-05, 11:54 AM
Oh, and yes, you will roll over and just take it, just like Betamax owners took it.

Nitz Walsh
11-20-05, 12:08 PM
And let me re-emphasise, your PC stuttering problems are either a) your fault b) your cheap overclocked hardwares fault or c) a bug that will be fixed eventually, welcome to pc gaming.
Uh...no. The HL2 stuttering problem is widespread across a wide range of hardware, people will lesser systems won't get it as opposed to people with high-end systems, there hasn't been a direct correlation to system configuration and specs yet. I get it as well. I don't find it that big of a deal, but then again the effect may be less pronounced on my hardware than others.

Nothing overlocked here either.

I'm betting on A though. But then again, if you wanted 100% stability and very few problems, you should have bought and intel platform (cpu AND motherboard) those things are rocks.
That was a nice blast from the blast. Newsflash: Problems with VIA motherboards are old hat by now. Athlon systems are extremely stable. My cheap $65 (cndn!) ASRock motherboard with XP2500 hardly ever crashes - the last GPF I had was with the NFS:MW demo, I can't recall anything since then. The vast majority AMD chipsets have been very stable for years.

If you have a system that's crashing routinely, it's very likely a faulty driver or hardware component.

Agreed though that the "Bloat! Bloat!" criticism against Windows is very old-hat by now. Compared to...what, exactly? OSX is a huge memory hog, Linux with a decent GUI also requires a good deal of memory. Regardless, XP will swap most of itself out to your HD if a game needs more memory unless you're running a ton of crap in the background.

Nitz Walsh
11-20-05, 12:16 PM
We are so much more passionate about our games. We build our own rigs, we support our developers, and in return, they take a big dump on us.
If PC gamers truly did "support the developers", then PC game sales wouldn't be fraction of console game sales, would they?

Knot3D
11-20-05, 02:57 PM
But the fact remains that Xbox users with their Xbox HL2 will never have to worry about stutter nor about possible Steam hickups.

Unless a person's an fps/mmorpg/rts @ high rez fanatic, the consoles do have a wider variety of game genres on their side.