How about a non-flamey AMD vs. P4?

[The Baron]

I'm building pretty soon (just noticed that my temp on my proc just hit 60, so when that happens, I'm pushing it too hard and it's time to upgrade, baby), and I can't decide between Intel and AMD. Plus I don't know the first thing about Intel chipsets.

So.... first things first. Which way do I go? I'm probably going to wait a month or so before starting, but I don't think anything is going to change too drastically in that time period.

If I go AMD, yes, it's nForce 2 all the way. But if I go Intel, do I want Granite Bay?

And finally... for the money, what proc speed of each is best for the money right now? I know it will change in a month or so, but is it really that much faster to get an Athlon 2700 over an Athlon 2400? Or a 3.06 over a 2.8?

[StealthHawk]

if you want to overclock and don't care about spending money, then you can't go wrong with Intel and Granite Bay.

if you want to save money, get a AMD + nforce 2 OR get a lower clocked P4 and overclock it.

[ReDeeMeR]

Well if you missed my las thread, check this bench (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,805718,00.asp) out, it should help you decide.

If you have np with money I say you could get a faster system from Intel, by getting 3,1Ghz and o/c it to 3,4 or even 3,5 if your lucky and outpreform AMD equivalent, altho I heard that 2700+ and 2600+ are good o/c's to and can reach 2300Mhz np.

Just some facts:


Nforce2 for min around - 130USD
AMD Athlon 2700+ for min - 319USD

Granite bay for min around - 255USD
P4 3Ghz for min - 636USD

I think for a reasonable person there's no other choice but AMD :rolleyes:

[StealthHawk]

Nforce2 for min around - 130USD

wtf? you can find nforce 2 for cheaper than that at newegg.

[The Baron]

A7N8X non-Deluxe for $125, but then I need a better soundcard. :p

Hmmm... is the M-Audio Revolution out yet?

btw, any word on the front panel audio stuff a la the Platinum Sound Blasters?

[Riptide]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
Well if you missed my las thread, check this bench (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,805718,00.asp) out, it should help you decide.

Yes indeed, check it out. Pentium 4 based solutions lead a majority of the benchmarks shown.

If you insist on the fastest system out there then you'll pay a premium no matter if you go with AMD or Intel. The AMD royalty for the 2800/2700 w/nforce2 is easier to swallow than a 3GHz P4 w/850E and RDR.

A P4 2.53 ($220) and an 845PE based motherboard ($120 asusp4pe) do nicely if one would prefer to save a little money. P4's still do pretty nicely even without the full 4.2gb of memory bandwidth to work with...

[The Baron]

Well, how about this..

who's changing sockets first? AMD or P4?

[lagadu]

amd will change for the hammers this year, but is expected to continue with the athlonXP line until at least the end of the year, as a value line of cpus.
intel will probably keep the socket through the 800mhz fsb cpus, canterwood and stuff so they will probably keep it at least during this year...

so for 2003 both socket A and 472 will be very upgradeable...

[ReDeeMeR]

StealthHawk -

yes but we dont have newegg all over the world :)


=SSC=The Baron -

Barton is next in AMD's line and it is already supported by nforce2 for future upgrades. And next P4(Prescott) will need a new motherboard.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
StealthHawk -

yes but we dont have newegg all over the world :)

i realize that. but saying something is the "min" price just because it is the min price for you is misleading, since at least as many forum goers here are in the US. i would venture to say that the majority is.

but err, what country is Baron in anyway :p if he's in your country then sorry, my mistake :)

[RM. Andersson]

The Athlon 64 that will be released in a few months will need new motherboards.
If you want the fastest desktop cpu from AMD one year from now you will have to upgrade the MoBo.

I think Prescott will also need a new MoBo. It´s a 200MHz fsb cpu(4*200=800).
There might be some Prescotts with lower fsb. Not sure.
If you want the best Intel cpu:s you will need a MoBo that supports 200MHz fsb at least.

Regards!

[The Baron]

US, and boy oh boy I love teh Newegg :p

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
US, and boy oh boy I love teh Newegg :p

grrrr lol

And no there wont be a desktop version of Amd64 cpu any time soon. Where did you get your data from RM. Andersson ??
It'll be available nex year or so.

[RM. Andersson]

Athlon 64 will be released Q2 2003 according to the latest roadmap. It is a high performance desktop cpu.
The server version is called Opteron.
When Athlon64 is released Barton will be the low cost value cpu.
Barton is like Duron.

Regards!

[SavagePaladin]

Am I the only one who thinks Bartons cache increase is gonna jack up the price quite a bit? :nono:

[ReDeeMeR]

Lets hope not, AMD is all about bang for the buck :spank:

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by SavagePaladin
Am I the only one who thinks Bartons cache increase is gonna jack up the price quite a bit? :nono:

no, i've already stated that myself in one of these threads.

[anxdiety]

I thought the athlon64= opteron? as well it seems odd that the hammer chip due out this spring is scheduled to have a 200 fsb. Considering Amd has barely even pushed the 333 chips. 3 cpu's with the 333 fsb are available officially. its not like amd to kill a product run so short. I figure barton is going to be 333 for the first half of the year with a jump to 200 by q4. The athlon 64 will be the high end server market until sometime in 2004 just like the ole MP chips for AMD. Not really a consumer level product.

Then again intel is all set to release the 800 fsb chips and amd might want to keep up and force the barton out early with the 200 fsb just to tread water and compete.

[RM. Andersson]

The Athlon 64 is based on claw hammer.
Opteron is sledge hammer.
Two different cpu:s

Opteron is intended to compete with Xeon.

Opteron will be released first and Athlon64 3-6 months later.
Athlon64 might be used in some small servers but it´s intended to be a desktop cpu.
Athlon64 will also be avilable with both 512Kb and 1Mb L2 cash.
I guess the 512Kb version will cost $250-500 and 1Mb much more.
Opteron will of course be very expensive.

Regards!

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by anxdiety
I thought the athlon64= opteron? as well it seems odd that the hammer chip due out this spring is scheduled to have a 200 fsb. Considering Amd has barely even pushed the 333 chips. 3 cpu's with the 333 fsb are available officially. its not like amd to kill a product run so short. I figure barton is going to be 333 for the first half of the year with a jump to 200 by q4. The athlon 64 will be the high end server market until sometime in 2004 just like the ole MP chips for AMD. Not really a consumer level product.

Then again intel is all set to release the 800 fsb chips and amd might want to keep up and force the barton out early with the 200 fsb just to tread water and compete.

eh, Hammer is going to have a 200"FSB"? Hammer uses HyperTransport or something as its FSB. note, i might be dead wrong, it's very late and i'm tired as heck ;)

anyway, i've heard that Hammer's integrated memory controller would support DDR333. nothing higher than that has been officially mentioned as of yet.

but it wouldn't be so strange considering Barton(due out sometime this quarter) is supposed to have a 200MHz FSB.

and yes, Athlon64 is the consumer version of Hammer(clawhammer), which is why AMD is keeping the Athlon brand name for it.

[druga runda]

Just lost a nice post .... going for AMD...


anyway, to make it short. C1 revision of P4 whatever the inital clock speed should get you above 3.2 ghz on air, up to 3.4 ghz...

Amd go with 2400+ and you should reach between 2200-2400 ghz on air.

Couple this with NF2, and you get a killer rig that P4 cannot really match at higher resolutions. P4 seem to be fast at low resolutiona but at high resolutions when the whole system is under stress AMD takes over, and I guess that really matters.

So Amd 2400+ only, NF2, good PC3200 memory, and make it work at 200FSB. That is the winner now. (i just think I would buy an ASUS...) ANd you can buy a barton in 12 months when they will be $100 or less ;) ...

If you OC the proc to 2300 mhz... this will run better than 333FSB Athlon (hey you will be running 400FSB ) or ar 3.06 GHZ P4....

For a fraction of the price. I am not sure what is it in US... but in UK all that for 340£ (CPU, Mobo and mem), and that is the price of P4 2800 only, or a 2800+ Athlon.

Ok those top end systems would be a bit more overclockable but do you really need those last 10% of the performance for 100% higher price?

[ReDeeMeR]

Yea, you need a good steping, there are peeps reaching 2400-2600mhz, AIUGB AIUHB stepings.

that is 3300+PR rating, but I'm sure you couldnt top that with any Intel processor. ;)

[SavagePaladin]

Hammer doesn't actually have a FSB due to hypertransport, but the memory controller IS limited, so if thats what you dudes are speaking of...

then 333mhz at start, from what I *heard* (they could have changed it by now)

[netape]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
that is 3300+PR rating, but I'm sure you couldnt top that with any Intel processor. ;)

What about a 4Ghz P4? ;) :D

IMO, if you are an xtreme overclocker and got some money, buy P4 based system. But if you aren't one and you don't have much money, go the AMD route. :order:

EDIT: that order smilie doesn't work :(

[ReDeeMeR]

Originally posted by netape
What about a 4Ghz P4? ;) :D

IMO, if you are an xtreme overclocker and got some money, buy P4 based system. But if you aren't one and you don't have much money, go the AMD route. :order:

EDIT: that order smilie doesn't work :(

Haha :D I was actualy refering to preformance rather then Mhz, I dont think you could ever top Intels mhz-monkey.