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BLOODUK
11-27-05, 06:16 PM
Basically this has been going on for ALONG time as some will know, what would happen is
it was only Directx games that say the frame rate would stone dive to half of my HZ
which being at 60 LCD would drop to 30fps.

This is the problem with vsync, with vsync off i was getting high fps but ALOT of frame skipping
and tearing. Everytime just say there was a slight drop in frame rates it would cap itself to 30fps
can you imagine driving a car at 100mph suddenly it would be doing 30mph then woosh back to 100mph
that would almost be a violent stutter.

Anyway opengl games have tripple buffering which when vsync enabled

A video buffer consists of a memory allocation for the information that is drawn to the screen. The first buffer is what is actually drawn to the screen, a second and third buffer are used to create a workspace to draw to that doesn't require synchronization to the vertical retrace of the monitor.

Tripple buffering allows the advantages of a double buffer, where the program has a buffer to draw on that is not dependent on the retrace, but adds the additional advantage of being able to draw to the third buffer while the second buffer is waiting to flip to the front of the screen.

Basically it was acting as a buffer to vsync hard to explain but it would be keeping the frame rates at its highest
point even if the frame rates slightly dropped.

DirectX doesnt have this games have to support it and MANY dont , need/battlefield2/f.e.a.r
But with DirectX tweaker i can Force Vsync + Double buffering.

Example i just ran battlefield 2 HIGH TEXTURES , the frame rates dropped from 60 - 58 and it was pretty much damn smooth, with textures on medium with everything else on high it DID not stutter or frame rate drop totaly smooth.

http://www.nonatainment.de/web/DirectXTweaker/Allgemein/tabid/56/Default.aspx

Get .net

Load up DirectX tweaker , and set the proggy to the dir of the game and
the game exe

Go to Modules to load

Present Changer

set Count = 2

Make the game active, then hit Start

TierMann
11-27-05, 06:28 PM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=60591

That's not the stuttering issue though, but it will help with framerate and tearing. With stuttering you end up with SPF instead of FPS and some of the time the sound will stutter as well.

BLOODUK
11-27-05, 07:02 PM
Stupid punkbuster keeps kicking me with * multiple direct3d enabled *

OWA
11-27-05, 07:30 PM
Why would that be the case?

Peoples-Agent
11-28-05, 12:36 AM
Punkbuster for you, that's pretty darn skank if you ask me.

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 03:35 AM
Punkbuster for you, that's pretty darn skank if you ask me.

Agreed which means battlefield 2 is pretty much unplayable
online :thumbdwn: :mad:

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 07:17 AM
Just enabled quad buffering = 4 , works even better
battlefield 2 is SO SMOOTH

But the pain in the arse is punkbuster detects the tweaker
as a hack, and i have NO idea how to force the setting any other
way without it :(

jolle
11-28-05, 07:51 AM
Anything that hooks into the API will be detected as hacks, thats basicly how Wallhacks and stuff like that work..

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 08:17 AM
Anything that hooks into the API will be detected as hacks, thats basicly how Wallhacks and stuff like that work..

Damn it , looks like no online play for me with punkbuster anymore then
shame there isnt any reg tweaks or anything to get it running :(

Guz
11-28-05, 09:37 AM
Darn, that was a heated argument in steam discussion forums. They said that as long as dxtweaker did not use wireframe mode then it was not considered a cheat and was not bannable by VAC.

Before i switched to nvidia i used ati tray tools which does have an enforce triple buffering option and i could even use it with punkbuster. I have requested nhancer and nvidia tray tool authors please include the option in their programs.

Ray Adams the author of ati tray tools has no nvidia hardware so he cannot do something similar for us :(

Guz
11-28-05, 09:44 AM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=60591

That's not the stuttering issue though, but it will help with framerate and tearing. With stuttering you end up with SPF instead of FPS and some of the time the sound will stutter as well.

Beleive it or not vysnc w/o triple buffering does produce jittering or pauses. Gameplay is not even close to being smooth without triple buffering. Iīm so used to it now that i cannot live without it. LOL.

OWA
11-28-05, 10:29 AM
Beleive it or not vysnc w/o triple buffering does produce jittering or pauses. Gameplay is not even close to being smooth without triple buffering. I´m so used to it now that i cannot live without it. LOL.
Hmm, I guess I choose not to believe it. :) Vsync without triple buffering seems just as smooth as vsync with triple buffering (to me anyway) unless I have marginal framerates and can't afford to have the framerate cut in half.

Slyder
11-28-05, 12:01 PM
OMFG.. I think this has helped my tearing problem...

Can it really be... :eek:

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 12:11 PM
OMFG.. I think this has helped my tearing problem...

Can it really be... :eek:


Well if it has fixed it, you owe me a beer :afro:

Thing is you wont believe how amazing this tweak is with d3d games
having vsync with tripple buffering everything is so smooth, fear/bf2/ss2
its like having a new system.

I CANNOT play without vsync it makes me feel ill , i cant stand the tearing
and the frame rate jitters. But stupid punkbuster doesnt like it so im screwed
with BF2 online.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2448/clipboard017tx.jpg

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 12:14 PM
Darn, that was a heated argument in steam discussion forums. They said that as long as dxtweaker did not use wireframe mode then it was not considered a cheat and was not bannable by VAC.

Before i switched to nvidia i used ati tray tools which does have an enforce triple buffering option and i could even use it with punkbuster. I have requested nhancer and nvidia tray tool authors please include the option in their programs.

Ray Adams the author of ati tray tools has no nvidia hardware so he cannot do something similar for us :(


Interesting, did you get any response from the authors of nvidia apps?

IF this gets sorted out, then my pc will be as good as i want it to be
i can play as i want to play, without vsync or without TB is just not
worth playing :(

Guz
11-28-05, 12:17 PM
Hmm, I guess I choose not to believe it. :) Vsync without triple buffering seems just as smooth as vsync with triple buffering (to me anyway) unless I have marginal framerates and can't afford to have the framerate cut in half.

OWA, what type of screen have you got? I use an LCD with DVI and tearing is unbearable with vsync off, and i also experience jittering when I play with vsync and no TB.

For example playing FEAR with TB makes a world of a difference. At least for my setup if a play without TB i get the following numbers:

0-25fps -> 0%
25-40fps -> 75
>40fps -> 25

If TB is enabled i get:

0-25fps -> 0%
25-40fps -> 32
>40fps -> 68

And beleive me, i can really tell the difference in gameplay. Must be because 30fps is way to low for my taste.

Gentle
11-28-05, 12:19 PM
What kind of hit do you take in video memory usage when going from standard double buffering to triple buffering?

Can someone determine double buffering versus triple buffering video memory usage at 1600 x 1200 and 1024 x 768 as examples?

Gentle

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 12:20 PM
With me if i have vsync on without tripple buffering i get MAJOR and i mean MAJOR frame rate dives to that of 30FPS and when this happens the game
stutters because the frames are far to low. My LCD is a max of 60 - 75hz
so with vsync on it dives to half that and its dreadful.

With vsync off no frame rate dives but the jitterying and tearing is unbearable
it makes me feel sick.

I never had these problems with opengl thats why i researched it and came apon triple for D3D since having it on its made a MASSIVE difference, playing F.E.A.R 60FPS without dropping without Tearing.. without jitters you cant believe how amazing that is.

But the only fault with it and its really a shame is punkbuster and steam
nothing like battlefield 2 playing in sp with perfect frame rates all on high textures with no frame rate drops.. but then comes online and it wont let
me experience it all.

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 12:22 PM
What kind of hit do you take in video memory usage when going from standard double buffering to triple buffering?

Can someone determine double buffering versus triple buffering video memory usage at 1600 x 1200 and 1024 x 768 as examples?

Gentle


Sorry buddy from my experience its an eye test i noticed no difference
in video memory usage hit from 1024x768 - 1280x1024 it just looks
so amazing.

The best thing to do is try it out on a d3d game with vsync enabled
and see for yourself! ;)

Guz
11-28-05, 12:37 PM
What Gentle means is that there is more memory usage with TB enabled. But from experience i havenīt really noticed any degrade in performance. Actually i have never found any posted memory usage figures for TB.

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 01:38 PM
UPDATE FROM DIRECTX TWEAKER ADMIN im in conversation with him
at the moment...


-
Interesting.

I know one possible reason for this. At the moment I change the loader code. It is possible that this will solve this problem, too.
-

Guz
11-28-05, 02:43 PM
Great! Please keep us posted. I was about to submit a technical support request at evenbalance. I guess i should wait...

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 02:58 PM
Great! Please keep us posted. I was about to submit a technical support request at evenbalance. I guess i should wait...

Well you could post on the directx tweaker forum and show ur support
maybe more people would make him see this is a brilliant idea :afro2:

BLOODUK
11-28-05, 02:59 PM
http://www.nonatainment.de/web/Default.aspx?tabid=53&g=posts&t=13

Link!

-
I know ATI Tray Tools.

The hook method is similar to our. I think it is only a little difference that punkbuster detect. As I say before maybe the new loader method solve it.

lewis_johnstone
11-28-05, 03:06 PM
Why are you guys using a direct 3d - triple buffering tweaker, when u can just enable triple buffering in the nvidia control panel?