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MarkFahey
12-12-05, 04:49 AM
Hi Everyone,

I am having a very strange graphics problem. I just installed an nVidia eVga 6800 AGP into my ASUS P4C800-E. I am running a P4 2.4b, Corsair 512M PC3500 stick, Audigy 2, 2 x WD 120G 2mb HD's, Antec True Power 550W, Dell 2001FP Monitor. Before this nVidia card, I was running an ATI 9700 Pro and was experiencing the same problem with that card. I did a fresh Windows XP SP2 install with this new video card, latest Intel chipset drivers, nVidia drivers and all the latest XP updates. I have also tried several older Forceware drivers.

The problem I am having is jittery, jerky, ghosting graphics not only happening on my desktop but in games as well. When I scroll through text or images in IE, Firefox, Word, etc... the movement is not smooth and is stuttering/ghosting. As well as when dragging a window across my desktop. It gets worse the faster I increase the movement or scroll. If I move the mouse super slow it is nice and smooth with no jitter but as soon as I start to speed up the movement is starts. It not only happens with the mouse but also with the keyboard arrow keys as well. So it is not mouse related. I'm running a Logitech MX1000 and have tried switching back to my old corded Microsoft Optical just to confirm this. This problem was happening even before I upgraded to my new MX1000 when I was still using my Microsoft Optical. I have also tried using my MX1000 on both the USB port and PS/2 port with no impact on this issue. So for sure it is not mouse related.

I have so far replaced my mobo with another brand new ASUS P4C800-E running the latest BIOS. Heat is not an issue, I am not overclocking and processor and GPU are running cool. CPU 32-Idle / 38-Load - GPU 49-Idle / 53-Load. I have tried a different stick of ram, as well as swapping out the P4 with a different P4 2.4b. I replaced the power supply with another Antec 550W, tried another Audigy 2, tried another CRT monitor, replaced both WD Hard Drives and replaced all the IDE and floppy cables. My eVga 6800 is hooked up to a power molex with nothing else connected to it except the video card and I have confirmed that my Antec 550W PSU's voltages are tight on all the rails.

I have even run another OS using the Knoppix Linux 4.01 Bootable CD version and the jitter/ghosting was even happening under Linux. So that definatly rules out any problems with Windows XP.

To this point I guess I have eliminated just about everything I could think of that would cause this problem. This should not be happening, my 2D scrolling and dragging and my 3D movement in games should be smooth without jitters/ghosting. This problem really has me stumped.


Here to see a small fraps video from a game. Look carefully at the edges of the boards on the window and the edge of the roof as I move.
CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO (http://media.putfile.com/jitter)


Does anyone have any suggestions or have you seen this issue before?


Many Thanks

Mark

saturnotaku
12-12-05, 05:02 AM
Have you tried running more than 512 MB of RAM?

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 05:11 AM
Yes Saturn, I swapped out my Corsair for 2 512M Kingston sticks.

TierMann
12-12-05, 05:11 AM
Ghosting doesn't happen on CRT monitors either. Do you mean tearing? That's when the top half of the screen doesn't match the bottom because it hasn't had a chance to redraw a full screen yet. You might want to make sure your refresh rate is the highest possible for your monitor at your current resolution.

If it's happening with 2 different video cards and 2 different OS's then it's not the card or the drivers. Even with trying another monitor the chances are the refresh rate was set to default (usually 60hz or so) both times. That's what it sounds like anyway.

crainger
12-12-05, 05:15 AM
Could it be the 2001FP?? If its happening everywhere it could be the monitor, perhaps a faulty Controller Board?

EDIT: Ah TierMann you beat me to it, didn't see he tried a CRT too.

This is most puzzling. Basically a whole new PC and it still happens...

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 05:21 AM
Crainger, I tried running this rig on a different monitor. A iiyama 21" CRT and it was still happening.

Medion
12-12-05, 05:23 AM
I had a similar problem once before. Here's what worked for me.

-Download DriverCleaner (google it). Install DC.

-Download the Forceware version of your choice.

-Uninstall your videocard drivers properly. When it prompts you to restart, don't. Open DriverCleaner and clean out all of the older ATI/NVidia ****.

-Reboot, reinstall your Forceware drivers.

Constant driver updates and especially rollbacks and switching to another brand can eventually cause issues. I use DC for every driver update.

crainger
12-12-05, 05:24 AM
Are the two drives in a RAID array??

Have you also tried unplugging unused drives, especially Optical Drives??

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 07:19 AM
TierMann,
It's similar to a Vsync tearing, but the text, image, or window has a blurring effect that is jittering or ghosting while its moving and leaves a bit of itself behind that has to catch up with itself. Where with only a Vsync tear you get the stepping tearing but not the blurring that I am getting. When I'm in a game like BF2 or Americas Army, when I turn with the mouse or strafe with the keyboard objects like trees, edges of buildings, other players, etc are ghosting and jittery where again it takes a second for the image to catch up with itself, like a graphics lag. My monitor is running at it's native 1600x1200 resolution @60Hz. I run all of my games at 1024x768 and this monitor can do both 60Hz and 75Hz at the resolution. I have tried both and still get the jitters.


Medion,
That was an excellent suggestion. I always use Driver Cleaner when changing or upgrading drivers. Also as I stated I even tried running a different OS with the Knoppix Linux bootable CD and the problem was still happening even under Linux which conforms that my Windows XP is running ok.



crainger,
"Puzzling" is an understatement! This problem really has me puzzled for sure. It really stinks because I havent been able to enjoy using my rig since this started happening. I am a serious gamer and this has really stopped me from that as well.

The two HD's a not in a raid array. That's a very interesting suggestion about "unplugging unused drives, especially Optical Drives" you made. That is one thing I have not done yet. I am going to go and try that right now.

What's really weird about this issue is that my stytem used to run great, no graphics jitters and smooth like silk. Even when I had my ATI 9700 Pro in it. Then all of a sudden one day several weeks ago it started having this problem. I thought that it may be graphics card related, and anyway it was about time to upgrade my card so I thought that would fix it.

I have replaced almost every part of my rig except the case which is a good quality Antec Performance II tower, and my optical drives, one is a Pioneer DVD slot drive and the other is a Pioneer 16x DVD Burner. I also disconnected all of my 80MM case fans to see if they were causing some kind of interference. As well as disconnecting all the case wiring leads like speaker, LED, reset switch, etc and only left the power switch lead connected to the mobo.

Has anyone ever heard of a case or optical drives causing this issue?

Peoples-Agent
12-12-05, 07:38 AM
How bizarre, but is it possible you have a corrupted Direct X somehow?
Might be worth trying that, otherwise the only way to completely remove a software issue scenario is to format and start afresh, still does it then.... could try having an eye test to make sure its not you. Now don't laugh when I say that, my friend was getting what he thought was ghosting on his games and he seemed adament it was PC related... turns out his eyes were holding image, cornea imprints as such. He had to have an operation ...crept up on him over a couple of months. How strange, but true.

BLOODUK
12-12-05, 07:48 AM
Can i join in here and say i have EXACTLY the same problem , i have fixed it
in most games by using VSYNC + TB + D3D with directx tweaker , BUT it happens alot of the time in windows especially noticable when you see an image scroll left to right it also happens ALOT on intro's if a screen pans left to right.

Never seen anything like it before this, the system was completely changed
thinking it would fix it but alas no.

The jitters are far worse in Stragety games when you pan across the screen
namely AOE 3 and The movies

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 08:39 AM
BLOODUK
Your the first person I have heard having this same exact problem! It's kinda weird that I just downloaded DXTweaker last night after reading the thread you posted in concerning the triple buffering with D3D with the Present Changer count set to 2. I did try this in Americas Army but it crashed it to desktop. BF2 seemed to work ok with this setting and tended to hold it's FPS better but It had no impact on the problem and I was still getting the jitters/ghosting.

I am a total noob using DXTweaker so can you explain in detail how you fixed our problem "using VSYNC + TB + D3D with directx tweaker"? I looked for other setting in DXTweaker and can't figure out how to set it up like you did.

I would be very interested in seeing this at least fix my jittering/ghosting in games but I am still curious if there is a total fix to this issue?


crainger,
I tried disconnecting my two optical drives and it didn't help...


Peoples-Agent,
My DirectX is ok, I reinstalled it also. In addition I tried running my rig with a different OS using the Knoppix Linux 4.01 Bootable CD version and the jitter/ghosting was even happening under Linux. So that definatly rules out any problems with Windows XP.

Interesting observation concerning the "could try having an eye test" :crosseye: I have thought about this but I showed this problem to two other people and they are seeing the same thing.

Medion
12-12-05, 08:54 AM
Medion,
I always use Driver Cleaner when changing or upgrading drivers. Also as I stated I even tried running a different OS with the Knoppix Linux bootable CD and the problem was still happening even under Linux which conforms that my Windows XP is running ok.

My apologies then, and I wish there was something I could do to help :(

tieros
12-12-05, 10:02 AM
Here's what I'd try (in increasing order of pain :spank:):

1) Remove the sound card and disable the audio.
2) Take the computer to a different physical location. You may have external RF interference.
3) Try a dedicated AC line conditioner.

Since it seems to happen regardless of hardware, I'd be looking for external causes.

I guess step 4 would be to have someone else look at it without you even being in the room. You may be giving off RF :alien: :)

BLOODUK
12-12-05, 10:21 AM
MarkFahey are you on irc? i maybe able to help you in some way
i cant promise though, i still find it a problem myself with
many things... (rudolf)

edit : ignore the eye test thing, im wearing glasses happens with or without
besides my dad's seen it happen in games aswell ;)

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 01:10 PM
tieros,
Ok, I have already tried removing my Audigy 2 card and disabling the drivers and that didn't work. I have also tried moving the PC to a different location with no success. I borrowed my ISOBar Power Strip from my audio reciever which has an isolated AC Line Conditioner and that had no impact as well. All very good suggestions but they don't seem solve this problem as of yet. I kinda agree with you that it looks like this may quite likely be from an external source but where is that big question?

On your last suggestion, I don't think I am emitting any RF, and i'm sure that my being abducted by that UFO :alien: last year dosen't have anything to do with it . :lol:


BLOODUK,
I havent re-installed MIRC yet since my fresh XP install. So How can I get in touch with you?

BLOODUK
12-12-05, 01:27 PM
www.mirc.com

Join efnet server , and msg me on there.. ill be on there in 20mins ;)

MarkFahey
12-12-05, 02:04 PM
Blood, what channel?

BLOODUK
12-12-05, 02:35 PM
#forumaddicts

edit will be on tomorrow, i currently feel rather ill and i dont know why :(

Suflex
12-13-05, 06:09 AM
I have the same problem too..

BLOODUK
12-13-05, 08:16 AM
My jitter is REALLY bad today, all i did was reinstall audio , graphics drivers
cant stop it now... most noticable in bf2 :(

BLOODUK
12-14-05, 06:50 AM
Did you solve your problem yet? i havent :|

MarkFahey
12-14-05, 10:05 PM
Not yet... :( Still workin on it though.

MarkFahey
12-19-05, 02:40 PM
UPDATE:

Here is a small fraps video from a game that clearly shows this problem. Look carefully at the edges of the boards on the window and the edge of the roof as I move. First part of the video I am moving with the keyboard, then with the mouse.

CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO (http://media.putfile.com/jitter)

BLOODUK
12-22-05, 10:39 AM
Just like to say thanks to 101 for the long chat, me and him seem to think
it maybe something to do with my electrics in the house because of lots of
fluctuations with voltages.