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Spotch
01-12-03, 08:29 PM
I fear the worst when it comes to FX performance and stability. Dustbuster graphics is not the way of the future. I really had my hopes up on this card and the latest delays and other rumors have really dampened my desire to get another visit from the hardware fairy.

My guess is performance will be on par or slightly above when compared to my 9700 and even below par at times. That just isnt the way it ought to be 6 months after the release of a new champion.

The Baron
01-12-03, 08:33 PM
if you're going to post fanboy posts, at least post them in existing threads.

and yes, huge fan things ARE the way of the future thanks to our good buddy Moore's Law. R400 will have some insane cooling, I'll bet money on it.

Spotch
01-12-03, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
if you're going to post fanboy posts, at least post them in existing threads.

and yes, huge fan things ARE the way of the future thanks to our good buddy Moore's Law. R400 will have some insane cooling, I'll bet money on it.

I bet it doesnt have a two slot setup with a noisy fan :). I would wager that liquid cooling is the method of choice.

Fanboy? If I bought an FX I would be a fanboy.... get it? :)

No I wanted a killer card to maintain my new 6 month buying cycle :). Now I fear that I may have to wait for the next product release. Oh well back to the old 12 month cycle. :(

styles-T
01-12-03, 09:16 PM
patience is a virtue..besides you have 300-500$ to drop every 6 months - when new hardware arrives..:afro:

The Baron
01-12-03, 09:16 PM
have you seen actual benchmarks for the FX?

what's that?

no?

then you should probably not post baseless speculation on what its speed is going to be. NOBODY knows what its speed is going to be except the guys at nVidia and any lucky bastard who has a review sample. You can only make so many guesses just from the specs.

Phyre
01-12-03, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Spotch
I bet it doesnt have a two slot setup with a noisy fan :). I would wager that liquid cooling is the method of choice.

I always love the ribbing of the two slot approach. It just makes me all giddy inside. I guess that it is not widely known that most motherboards split an IRQ between the AGP slot and PCI slot 0. If you're not gonna use it, why not put something in it? Besides, the hot air is being forced out the case. I like that idea. Keeps the inside of the case cooler. Wow, what a concept.

Phyre

Spotch
01-12-03, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by !plonk*
patience is a virtue..besides you have 300-500$ to drop every 6 months - when new hardware arrives..:afro:
I never said anything about $500. I expected about a $400 setback as with the 9700. ($350 second week in september two to three weeks after first availability) It will probably be that as even the GF3 was rumored at $500-$600 and came out at $400-$450.

I would prefer better performance at lower clock speeds. Perhaps a bit of innovative engineering that can allow for either higher stable operating temperatures or reduce the power dissipation of the GPU/VPU. Maybe a more mature manufacturing process is required to make the FX a more elagant solution? After all how am I gonna stick a graphics solution the size of a video cassette with a hair dryer attached to it, in my laptop? :)

Bigus Dickus
01-12-03, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Phyre
I always love the ribbing of the two slot approach. It just makes me all giddy inside. I guess that it is not widely known that most motherboards split an IRQ between the AGP slot and PCI slot 0. If you're not gonna use it, why not put something in it? Besides, the hot air is being forced out the case. I like that idea. Keeps the inside of the case cooler. Wow, what a concept.

Phyre

Yes, and if it's drawing air from outside the case it creates a very real dust problem for the FX-Flow cooling system, and the noise is an added bonus as well.

It probably cools well, but it's still a compromise.

tamattack
01-12-03, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Phyre
I guess that it is not widely known that most motherboards split an IRQ between the AGP slot and PCI slot 0. If you're not gonna use it, why not put something in it?

Coz OEM PC manufacturers hate that kind of stuff. They don't even like simple fans on their heatsinks and will go out of their way to avoid them except to appease demand for higher performing parts. OEMs will hate the dustbuster and will only begrudgingly use it to satiate demand for GFFX.

Kruno
01-12-03, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
if you're going to post fanboy posts, at least post them in existing threads.

and yes, huge fan things ARE the way of the future thanks to our good buddy Moore's Law. R400 will have some insane cooling, I'll bet money on it.

Bah! I am getting annoyed at everyone being called a fanboy. The guy is scared ****less that Nvidia may fail with the GeforceFX. If it's true or not is another thing all together. :)

If I create a post saying I am **** afraid of ghosts will you say I am a human fanboy? ;) :p :D

netviper13
01-12-03, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by tamattack
Coz OEM PC manufacturers hate that kind of stuff. They don't even like simple fans on their heatsinks and will go out of their way to avoid them except to appease demand for higher performing parts. OEMs will hate the dustbuster and will only begrudgingly use it to satiate demand for GFFX.

nVidia isn't forcing anyone to use the two-slot cooling system. Just as Zalman found a place in CPU cooling, I'm sure there will be a quieter way to cool the GeForce FX.

Spotch
01-13-03, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Bah! I am getting annoyed at everyone being called a fanboy. The guy is scared ****less that Nvidia may fail with the GeforceFX. If it's true or not is another thing all together. :)

If I create a post saying I am **** afraid of ghosts will you say I am a human fanboy? ;) :p :D

Am I the guy who is scared ****less? Well you are certainly mistaken. Why on earth would anyone be scared unless half their portfolio is wrapped in NVIDIA stock? (Sold my NVIDIA in 2001 ;) ) I guess some people take this vid card loyalty stuff too seriously. I am an enthusiast. I love to buy new hardware and sit back and admire the miracle of how high technology progresses. Of course the best way to experience it is not to stare at a bunch of bar graphs but to feel it work first hand. (OK I do like to game quite a bit as well :) )

Anyhow I really thought the FX would be to the 9700 what the 9700 was to the Ti4600. Now I am pretty certain that it will not be the case. That is the cause of my DISAPPOINTMENT. It has nothing to do with FEAR.

I can only hope the R400/NV40 offers the type of huge performance increase and features that makes them true champion killers.

But thanks for the support on the fanboy remark. :)

Kruno
01-13-03, 12:44 AM
I still say your **** scared. ;) :p :D :smoking2:

Well, if the GeforceFX has Ati's (similar) media features like fullstream/videoshader and 2d as good as Ati's then in my eyes it will be a success.
If not then it will be a card I never look at again for the rest of my life. :)

It all depends on what you want. If you want hundreds of frames a second then (if the GeforceFX is much faster than the R300) the GeforceFX will be your card.

I never bought my R300 for pure gaming purposes. I bought it mainly for the amount of DVDs I watch on my PC and for some extras like watching Dragonball Z episodes on Ati's videoshader demo player. :)
All the pixelated images gone from the movie. It's so good owning an R300. :)
Pr0n also looks better. :D

SavagePaladin
01-13-03, 01:55 AM
So you're making more speculation based on speculation (ie rumors.)

Well thats great and all, but I'll wait for a review and a final product...like sane people tend to.

(Not saying I'm sane, but I try.)

Kruno
01-13-03, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by SavagePaladin
So you're making more speculation based on speculation (ie rumors.)

Well thats great and all, but I'll wait for a review and a final product...like sane people tend to.

(Not saying I'm sane, but I try.)

If you read my post you will know that you just made yourself look like a lesbian. :)
I won't need to highlight any keywords if only you had read my post. :)

StealthHawk
01-13-03, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Spotch
Anyhow I really thought the FX would be to the 9700 what the 9700 was to the Ti4600. Now I am pretty certain that it will not be the case. That is the cause of my DISAPPOINTMENT. It has nothing to do with FEAR.

what in the world ever gave you that idea?

the 30% mark has been thrown around since Comdex(November).

as Baron said, what's the point of bringing it up now? we still haven't gotten any solid benchmarks on from final silicon or shipping drivers yet. sounds like FUD to me.

nutball
01-13-03, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Spotch

Anyhow I really thought the FX would be to the 9700 what the 9700 was to the Ti4600. Now I am pretty certain that it will not be the case. That is the cause of my DISAPPOINTMENT. It has nothing to do with FEAR.


Well then I'm afraid to say that you only have yourself to blame for having such ludicrous expectations. That was never going to be the case.

vampireuk
01-13-03, 06:15 AM
/me puts on the hat of common sense(patent pending)

I too think I will wait until the actual product is released until I start forming opinions on it:cool:

Darth Rancid
01-13-03, 01:00 PM
Why should we wait until the product is finished before we judge it? Last time we did that was Voodoo2!... :)

Speculations are fun as long as things don't get out of hand... which they frequently do in some threads...

SavagePaladin
01-13-03, 01:52 PM
I look like a lesbian because you don't make sense? ok...

Matthyahuw
01-13-03, 01:59 PM
Look at you guys arguing over a cooler!

Then someone brings up OEMs...sheesh, only the ULTRA will have the s00per c00ler, the others will be just regular coolers like we've all seen for the last few years, so CHILL!

Spotch
01-13-03, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by nutball
Well then I'm afraid to say that you only have yourself to blame for having such ludicrous expectations. That was never going to be the case.

It is not ludicrous to expect it. 500mhz GPU? 1Ghz DDR II memory? These are considerably higher than the 325 mhz core and 620mhz DDR memory of the 9700. A separate T/L engine? Double the geometry units? With the power that NV has been able to squeeze out of their past chips it isnt too far off to anticipate close to double the performance of the 9700 especially with the very efficient drivers we have come to expect from NV and their excellent memory architecture. Now that a meager 128 bit memory path is all but a lock it seems to negate the memory speed advantage. In light of the early benchmarks we have seen, together with the stated limitations of their content imposed by NV, it seems that we are going to see the FX fall subject to some memory bandwidth limitations. Its as if NV is holding the new product back enough to compete at the 9700 level, rather than put out a card in a class on its own like the 9700 is. Perhaps they are doing this to allow for a refresh later this year and suck more money out of us PC freaks. Well this freak is not going to smack down 400 credits for a -10% to +30% speed bump. "I need something more real." :)

Lezmaka
01-13-03, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Spotch
It is not ludicrous to expect it. 500mhz GPU? 1Ghz DDR II memory? These are considerably higher than the 325 mhz core and 620mhz DDR memory of the 9700. A separate T/L engine? Double the geometry units? With the power that NV has been able to squeeze out of their past chips it isnt too far off to anticipate close to double the performance of the 9700 especially with the very efficient drivers we have come to expect from NV and their excellent memory architecture. Now that a meager 128 bit memory path is all but a lock it seems to negate the memory speed advantage. In light of the early benchmarks we have seen, together with the stated limitations of their content imposed by NV, it seems that we are going to see the FX fall subject to some memory bandwidth limitations. Its as if NV is holding the new product back enough to compete at the 9700 level, rather than put out a card in a class on its own like the 9700 is. Perhaps they are doing this to allow for a refresh later this year and suck more money out of us PC freaks. Well this freak is not going to smack down 400 credits for a -10% to +30% speed bump. "I need something more real." :)

:rolleyes:

How many times have you seen where a new chip more than doubles/triples the performance (in any situation) of the previous high end chip? Unless we get some really fast CPU's coming out soon (more than just incremental upgrades) I don't see how we'll see any kind of performance jump like what happened with the R300 over the Ti4600.

gokickrocks
01-13-03, 03:23 PM
people say that its unlikely that the fx ultra will have the fx flow contraption...but then its been reported that nvidia (or just 1 main outsource vendor) will be producing the boards for the nv30s because of quality control (means they will stick to reference design), so you are likely going to see it on there...

for the nv31 and nv34, nvidia will allow outside manufacturers to produce their own boards with nvidia supplying the chips

ChrisW
01-13-03, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Spotch
It is not ludicrous to expect it. 500mhz GPU? 1Ghz DDR II memory? These are considerably higher than the 325 mhz core and 620mhz DDR memory of the 9700.
Well, it sounds impressive. But when you consider the 500MHz clock of the GFFX Ultra only gets you 350 million triangles/sec verses the 9700 Pro's 325 million triangles/sec for only a 325MHz clock, it's not so impressive. Also if you consider 1GHz 128 bit DDRII only gets you 16GHz memory bandwidth verses 620MHz 256 bit DDR gets you 19GHz memory bandwidth, then that is also not very impressive.