X1900 XTX is not the fastest, most powerful as you thought?

[AthlonXP1800]

X1900 XTX with 48 pixel shaders will be only slight faster than a Geforce 7800 GTX 512 in all games and GTX 512 will beaten X1900 XTX in some games benchmarks accorded to Gibbo from Overclockers UK forum's 3 posts here (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6221262&postcount=21), here (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6225648&postcount=13) and here (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6222361&postcount=23).

X1900 is gonna be fast, BUT 7800 GTX 512MB will hold its own in some games, but in general the X1900 will beat it and be less money. NVIDIA will then release their card...

X1900's are to compete with NVIDIA's 512MB 7800 GTX and pricing will be on a similar level. At the same time NVIDIA 512MB 7800 GTX will be easily available...

X1900 will have more than one model, one no doubt a little quicker than 512MB 7800 GTX for less money and one quite a bit faster for similar money.

However NVIDIA will release G71 in February which supposedly will destroy R580's performance. Then the next major release will be towards end of the summer when the real next gen cards come out.

Wow I am stunned that X1900 with massive 48 pixel shaders are just a little faster than X1800 with 16 pixel shaders compete with GTX 512 not the G71, look like ATI engineers had it massive miscalculated that the more pixel shaders outperform the bigger the pixel pipelines get. Nvidia G71 will be win the war already, ATI will have no products to counter G71 until the next round with R600 VS G80 match.

[shoman24v]

And how can this be proved?

[-=DVS=-]

This might be true if todays games and benchmarks are not shader intense , only time will show how newer more advanced games perform.
Offcourse all these posts might just be speculation we don't have any official reviews :p

[AthlonXP1800]

This might be true if todays games and benchmarks are not shader intense , only time will show how newer more advanced games perform.
Offcourse all these posts might just be speculation we don't have any official reviews :p

But I think more advanced games that use lots of shaders ported from Xbox 360 and PS3 to the PC wont be seen until after summer with R600 and G80 with future games like Far Cry 2 and GTA: London take advantage of unified shaders so what the point with X1900 with 48 shaders that no games will take advantage of 6 months early?

[Treason]

But I think more advanced games that use lots of shaders ported from Xbox 360 and PS3 to the PC wont be seen until after summer with R600 and G80 with future games like Far Cry 2 and GTA: London take advantage of unified shaders so what the point with X1900 with 48 shaders that no games will take advantage of 6 months early?

Wasn't this the same situation with the GeForce 6x00 series though? nVidia touted SM 3.0 in it's inital PR campaign.

[Lfctony]

Athlon don't even go there. That's the same argument used by ATI fanboys regarding NV40 and SM3.0. No games take advantage of a feature right now, so it's useless, right? WRONG! Besides, this isn't even a feature, it doesn't require programming of a sort for it to work properly. Depending on the game, it could offer a massive advantage over competing products. Remains to be seen...

[jAkUp]

The x1900xtx will be much, much faster than the 7800GTX 512

[Dazz]

Heck video cards are now so powerful they are CPU limited even on an FX58. Thats why they are starting to take advantage of dual cores. In games like Quake 4 and call of duty 2 we will see these cards take right off.

[Richteralan]

The x1900xtx will be much, much faster than the 7800GTX 512

I would say faster, but not "much much faster".
R580 is still basically 16 pipes structure. It's triple pixel processors shine only when games are shader heavy(which I hardly see any games like this now)

[Skinner]

Its correct info from Gibbo, say 80/20, but the X1900 will excell in shaderintensive apps.

[fasedww]

I would say faster, but not "much much faster".
R580 is still basically 16 pipes structure. It's triple pixel processors shine only when games are shader heavy(which I hardly see any games like this now)Always never now, :)

[hemmy]

And how can this be proved?

that is why this is called the Hardware Rumor Mill

[Henno]

Nvidia G71 will be win the war already

I wonder if Nvidia improved dynamic branching performance on the G71 (a lot), and ofcourse when will (heavy) dynamic branching appear in a game.

Heavy shaders + dynamic branching, the R580 will totally kill a 7800GTX/512, but what vs a G71?

[shoman24v]

that is why this is called the Hardware Rumor Mill
I guess you just can't get way each side (nvidia fanboys and ati fanboys) saying there card will be faster without any real proof.

:D

I have nvidia but i'm not 100% nvidia or 100% ati all the way.

[Medion]

If the goal is to be faster in future games, then ATI may have the better design. Sure, the G71 may be faster in much older games that aren't shader intensive at all, but who's going to be picky about 350fps versus 500fps?

It's fun to speculate and all, and it's hard to predict ATI winning a round when they just got their butt kicked, but anything is possible. I eagerly await the benchmark results :)

[lee63]

I guess you just can't get way each side (nvidia fanboys and ati fanboys) saying there card will be faster without any real proof.

:D

I have nvidia but i'm not 100% nvidia or 100% ati all the way. Yeah me to but Im kinda stuck with nV with an SLi mobo, hopefuly there will some kind of hack where you can use X-fire card's on SLi boards, but back on topic , I think both these card's will kick ass:D (nana2)

[shoman24v]

I guess you just can't get way each side (nvidia fanboys and ati fanboys) saying there card will be faster without any real proof.
God damn that makes no sense :p

What I meant to say is: I guess no matter what forum you are on, either it being an nvidia forum or ati forum you are always going to be having users that are partial to a particular brand say "this brand" will whoop on "this brand" before the card is actually out. Let the cards be released then start the smack talk :p

[Tho Jo Smale]

Looking at the price of ATI stock recently, they definately need to hand a spanking to Nvidia. Nvidia has diversified their product line to include much more than just gamers/enthusaist graphic cards. SLI and nforce as well as quadro have all done wonders to expand nV's market share. ATI needs to get it together or they face extinction, which would be bad for everyone (fanboys alike) as it reduces competition in the marketplace.

[phide]

nVidia has SLi, nForce and Quaddro while ATi has CrossFire, RDXXX and FireGL.

Try to keep in mind that the ultra-high end market is not the big money-maker for either company. ATi's stocks will rebound once the low to mid-range parts are more appealing to Joe Blow consumers. I don't believe investors are looking at the battle between R580 and G71 to decide where they're going to drop a portion of their income.

[Richteralan]

nVidia has SLi, nForce and Quaddro while ATi has CrossFire, RDXXX and FireGL.

Try to keep in mind that the ultra-high end market is not the big money-maker for either company. ATi's stocks will rebound once the low to mid-range parts are more appealing to Joe Blow consumers. I don't believe investors are looking at the battle between R580 and G71 to decide where they're going to drop a portion of their income.

Partly true.
High ends mainly for PR purposes for share holders and investors.

[Tho Jo Smale]

I agree it's not about the profit, but rather how the public ( and investors) view each company. Currently nVidia happens to be enjoying more favorable investor opinion, some of which can be directly attributed to it's own (and the competition's) high end products. ATI is in a slump and would benefit from the release of it's next generation cards b4 nVidia's next gen release. The x1900 XTX , when released, needs to thoroughly spank the 7800 GTX 512 in all benchmarks/gaming or face the same ridicule as the last generation of feature poor offerings from ATI. I would like to see nVidia get thier hats handed to them, brings down the price of those $$$$$ quad-sli systems :)

[jAkUp]

I would say faster, but not "much much faster".
R580 is still basically 16 pipes structure. It's triple pixel processors shine only when games are shader heavy(which I hardly see any games like this now)

If 3DMark05 is any indicator, the card will be much faster. You will see.

But then again, 3Dmark05 is very shader/vertex heavy, so we may not see as many big boosts in games.


The high end plays a big role in financials looks at history.

nV's 5800 Ultra was a flop, ATI started to take a lead on them. Then, ATI's enthusiast end is not doing good and you can't find them, they get in a little trouble. Abit starts to drop off in the enthusiast market, right now they are in big trouble. Intel dropped way off in the enthusiast market, they are doing really bad compared to their past. Dell starts competing on price with the lowest end of systems, and they are doing horrible right now. Dell is now focusing more on their enthusiast market, thats where the money is. DFI obtains Oskar Wu, caters to the enthusiast market, and they are doing better than ever right now.

Enthusiast parts create the highest margin for the company. To make the same amount of money in enthusiast parts, a company needs to sell much more low end parts to equal the enthusiast section. nVidia or any company make very little margin off the low end parts, its just too competitve price wise.

[Son Goku]

God damn that makes no sense :p

What I meant to say is: I guess no matter what forum you are on, either it being an nvidia forum or ati forum you are always going to be having users that are partial to a particular brand say "this brand" will whoop on "this brand" before the card is actually out. Let the cards be released then start the smack talk :p

It's been this way for a long time. I've seen the same arguments when it was nVidia vs. 3dfx, and same situation no cards have been out. And true to form, once the cards are released and people can start benching and playing with them, more will be known.

As to nVidia diversifying, in some ways this has been good, as it gives them more then one source of revenue. AKA, while between generations for their respective gfx cards, there's still the nForce pulling money in. It goes without saying also, as some have pointed out, that landing deals with OEMs is more the bread and butter for them financially, then the enthusiest upgrade market. In that case, it comes to a more consistent source of revenue, rather then a blip when a new card comes out, but tapers off as we have our new cards.

As to what people run, hehe I've got nVidia and ATI in my computer right now with an nForce mobo and a Radeon 9600 gfx card...

[Dazz]

Not really true, for every Enthusiast part sold on OEM sells 100 lower end parts. It all adds up in the end. Quantity and not quaility. High end parts get more attraction however. But most people are not willing to blow soo much on something that does not last long enough.

Back on topic you will see the X1600 is quite a performer in FEAR due to heavy use of shaders. From what i have heard the R580 is very faster in
FEAR. Alot faster then the 512GTX.

[[EOCF] Tim]

If 3DMark05 is any indicator, the card will be much faster. You will see.

But then again, 3Dmark05 is very shader/vertex heavy, so we may not see as many big boosts in games.


The high end plays a big role in financials looks at history.

nV's 5800 Ultra was a flop, ATI started to take a lead on them. Then, ATI's enthusiast end is not doing good and you can't find them, they get in a little trouble. Abit starts to drop off in the enthusiast market, right now they are in big trouble. Intel dropped way off in the enthusiast market, they are doing really bad compared to their past. Dell starts competing on price with the lowest end of systems, and they are doing horrible right now. Dell is now focusing more on their enthusiast market, thats where the money is. DFI obtains Oskar Wu, caters to the enthusiast market, and they are doing better than ever right now.

Enthusiast parts create the highest margin for the company. To make the same amount of money in enthusiast parts, a company needs to sell much more low end parts to equal the enthusiast section. nVidia or any company make very little margin off the low end parts, its just too competitve price wise.

Much faster?

3DMarks...

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/125/125255_3.shtml