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View Full Version : 4gigs of ram and AMD.education needed


FearMeAll
01-14-06, 12:16 PM
alright I have seen a lot of posts about how 4 gigs of ram messes with the bus speeds of AMD boards and I need to be educated on this.
My PC is due for an upgrade and I have 4 gigs of corsair memory ready to be installed. I have 2 of them in my crappy mobo and the other 2 are in my dresser.
I want to get an AMD 4800 X2 and a motherboard of any kind as long as it fully supports 4 gigs(1gig sticks). I want a PCI express mobo but I guess this all they make now lol. I just don't want to get the wrong board. I was looking at DFI lanparty boards on newegg and they look pretty good but will they give me a problem? Also if I got a SLI board and put one x1800xt in it will it work? I see SLI boards and crossfire. I may get an x1800xt though since I can't get any 7800 512s at a decent price but I want a sli mobo anyway cuz my next card after that will be an nvidia card.
Also I am hearing how nforce boards have a problem with x-fi cards. Is this fixed in newer boards cuz I got an x-fi.
Any recommendations? Thank you in advance. :)

john19055
01-17-06, 05:56 AM
Haveing four gigs of ram seem to work fine in my Gigabyte N-force4 SLI board,If your heart is'nt set on a ATI card ,then you can get a EVGA SLI motherboard and a 7800GT for just $359 and another Evga 7800GT for $299.

Superfly
01-17-06, 06:06 AM
bus speeds should be fine but you may have to drop to 2Ttimings.

nV`andrew
01-17-06, 09:30 AM
Haveing four gigs of ram seem to work fine in my Gigabyte N-force4 SLI board,If your heart is'nt set on a ATI card ,then you can get a EVGA SLI motherboard and a 7800GT for just $359 and another Evga 7800GT for $299.

yea the evga board support 4 gigs as long as they are all the same speed...i love my evga board, no problems so far. I think the gigbabyte work well with 4gigs like stated before. If it's a good quality board by a good brand name that supports 4 gigs as well as the higher-end AMD cores and series'(FX, etc) you should be fine.

CaptNKILL
01-17-06, 10:24 AM
Are we talking 4gigs or 4 sticks? I dont usually see too many people talking about 4gigs of ram around here...

$n][pErMan
01-17-06, 11:59 AM
Haveing four gigs of ram seem to work fine in my Gigabyte N-force4 SLI board,If your heart is'nt set on a ATI card ,then you can get a EVGA SLI motherboard and a 7800GT for just $359 and another Evga 7800GT for $299.
Nice deal.... :cool:

FearMeAll
02-05-06, 06:47 PM
ok when I put 4 gigs of my ram in my new rig it lowers my timings to 2t and makes my ram run at 333mhz. Is there anything I can do to make my ram at least run at 400mhz?
I have this sli rig going and my 3d performance is already great. I just hate the idea of having to relax my ram timings so much but I think gamez like FEAR would really love the extra ram.

Roliath
02-05-06, 07:37 PM
This is an issue with filling all four banks with ram modules.
I had this problem on my NewCastle when I had 4x512MB of ram installed.
It dropped down to 333Mhz and 2T, I simply just went into the BIOS and manually set the speed to 400Mhz.

FearMeAll
02-05-06, 07:41 PM
This is an issue with filling all four banks with ram modules.
I had this problem on my NewCastle when I had 4x512MB of ram installed.
It dropped down to 333Mhz and 2T, I simply just went into the BIOS and manually set the speed to 400Mhz.
really?? is that all? wow gonna try that now. Did you have to adjust any voltage I mean did it mess with other settings like raise your cpu and extra 500mhz or something bad like that?

Roliath
02-05-06, 07:43 PM
No nothing like that!
Just a simple setting in BIOS, you will have to keep the 2T timing though.

FearMeAll
02-05-06, 07:57 PM
No nothing like that!
Just a simple setting in BIOS, you will have to keep the 2T timing though.
Ok I just did it and it worked. I enabled the memory hole in the bios. However it still only wants to detect 3.5 gigs of it. I don't care though that's plenty and it is running in dual channel. Hopefully there will be more Bios updates from DFI as VISTA comes out. But at least it does read as the full 400mhz in ntune.
Also what exactly does "2T" do from "1T". Does that usually lose a lot of performance? Right now I have my ram timings pretty tight so maybe that can help.

Roliath
02-05-06, 08:12 PM
Doesn't take away in real world performance by that much, but you will notice it in synthetic benchmarks.
Also in This thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73675&highlight=4GB), he was able to get all 4GB to show up in windows..

Also, if you still can't see all of the 4GB of ram, try going to XP 64Bit (only if you MUST have all 4GB)

FearMeAll
02-05-06, 08:18 PM
Doesn't take away in real world performance by that much, but you will notice it in synthetic benchmarks.
Also in This thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73675&highlight=4GB), he was able to get all 4GB to show up in windows..

Also, if you still can't see all of the 4GB of ram, try going to XP 64Bit (only if you MUST have all 4GB)
ha ha..no I will wait until VISTA before going all out 64bit. There are too many games I love to play that are too much hassle for me to try to get to work in XP64 and I don't want to buy the OS when Vista is around the corner.

ynnek
02-06-06, 12:01 PM
I've been around the X3 Reunion game's techinical support.. and I've seen abuch of posts now about AMD users that have to fidddle around with mem settings to get this game to run stable, with the speed and timing settings you've mentioned.


Interestly, two guys had to also go in and change the voltage settings from "AUTO" to a little higher than normal spec (overvolt) to get the game, and some others to even load properly! BTW, their PSU seemed to be of high enough rating and quality..

Greg
02-07-06, 04:29 AM
really?? is that all? wow gonna try that now. Did you have to adjust any voltage I mean did it mess with other settings like raise your cpu and extra 500mhz or something bad like that?

Please be very careful doing this, it will work fine with some RAM chips and motherboards and not others. When I tried manually setting the RAM speed on one particular Athlon64 back to 200mhz (400ddr), it produced an average of one memory error every 12 hours of MemTest-ing. All it takes is one memory error to corrupt your data and Windows Apps. To run 4gb or more using 4 DIMMs, you may need registered RAM or an Opteron or specific model CPU.

I'm not trying to scare you, you won't damage your hardware, just a warning since I see these posts from time to time followed by plenty of people saying 'it works for me' without proper testing or knowledge of what the risks are. I recommend downloading the "Kernel developers guide for Athlon64 and Opteron processors" which lists the memory controller compatability with different memory configuration.

Roliath
02-07-06, 08:57 AM
I ran memtest86+ for 18 hours after I set my ram to 400Mhz, and I had no error whatsoever..
But yeah I get what your saying

uOpt
02-07-06, 11:39 AM
Here are the issues involved with 4 sticks respectively 4 GB of memory in socket 939 boards.


With 4 sticks (no matter the capacity) you will almost always have to go command rate 2T instead of 1T. For an application mix that costs about 1% performance, but individual applications might suffer more.
With 4 sticks (no matter the capacity) most boards' BIOSes will often scale down from DDR400 to DDR333 by default. Pre E-revision AMD64 CPUs will often require that as their memory controller can't drive 4 sticks DDR400. E revision CPUs will usually be able to do 4 sticks DDR400, but the BIOS might not know this. If the BIOS sets speed to DDR333 it is worth a try to go DDR400 manually and see what happens.
Without remapping of the memory area occupied by both device I/O and memory when you 4 GB of memory you will not be able to use some memory between 3 and 4 GB. Typically will will see a loss of 500 MB but it can be as bad as 1200 MB.
The remapping to get those MB back is broken or slightly broken on many boards. Approximately 50% of my boards don't work right with the remapping in all OSes. Most of the times one OS or another will work but others might not. Note that this always requires a 64 bit OS or a 32 bit OS with PAE.
I have been told that Windoze XP SP2 removed some of the PAE capability and you will never get the memory back. I don't use Windoze and I'm glad about it :)


That should about cover it. Let me know if there are more questions.

Poodle
02-07-06, 04:37 PM
ha ha..no I will wait until VISTA before going all out 64bit. There are too many games I love to play that are too much hassle for me to try to get to work in XP64 and I don't want to buy the OS when Vista is around the corner.


My Win X64 rigg doesn't have any problems running 32bit-software... :smoking2:

x64 loves much ram and my X2 runs smoth like a ducks ass with it. Well, it's good stuff and you should look into it.

Drivers however have to be 64bit. So you might not be able to run your old printers which has that lovely bone-gray coloring ;)


Isn't Vista also about to run annoying copy protection stuff....?

FearMeAll
02-07-06, 04:53 PM
Here are the issues involved with 4 sticks respectively 4 GB of memory in socket 939 boards.


With 4 sticks (no matter the capacity) you will almost always have to go command rate 2T instead of 1T. For an application mix that costs about 1% performance, but individual applications might suffer more.
With 4 sticks (no matter the capacity) most boards' BIOSes will often scale down from DDR400 to DDR333 by default. Pre E-revision AMD64 CPUs will often require that as their memory controller can't drive 4 sticks DDR400. E revision CPUs will usually be able to do 4 sticks DDR400, but the BIOS might not know this. If the BIOS sets speed to DDR333 it is worth a try to go DDR400 manually and see what happens.
Without remapping of the memory area occupied by both device I/O and memory when you 4 GB of memory you will not be able to use some memory between 3 and 4 GB. Typically will will see a loss of 500 MB but it can be as bad as 1200 MB.
The remapping to get those MB back is broken or slightly broken on many boards. Approximately 50% of my boards don't work right with the remapping in all OSes. Most of the times one OS or another will work but others might not. Note that this always requires a 64 bit OS or a 32 bit OS with PAE.
I have been told that Windoze XP SP2 removed some of the PAE capability and you will never get the memory back. I don't use Windoze and I'm glad about it :)


That should about cover it. Let me know if there are more questions.
yeah my board recognizes all 4 gigs and it runs at 400mhz 2t timing at 2-3-3-6 latency. Windows recognizes 2.75 gigs of it. I don't care though that is plenty and my games like it more. Windows Vista will be out some time this year and it will recognize it all. I'm not ready to move to windows xp 64 bit yet. Although I am very tempted I will wait until Vista.
Regarding errors I have not had any. I believe this board I have is a very good board (DFI Lanparty UT) and I haven't had any problems yet and I ran 3dmark a lot of times. I think I'll keep the 4 gigs. The less the hard drive has to chug the better. The memory was cherrypicked Corsair ddr400 ram I bought from newegg. I didn't want to go pc4400 this time as I am permanately done with overclocking and just want to run at maximum stability.
I don't notice 2t timings hurting my performance. Fear still runs at a minimum framerate that I like and I am pretty happy. Plus I can have a lot of apps running and run photoshop at full tilt with no pagefile usage.
This is the first machine I have built with no budget limits in celebration of a lot of hard work and my new great career so I went overboard a lot. I run at 1680x1050 and I think with sli I will be able to keep my rig the way it is until directx10 games come out. :D

FearMeAll
02-07-06, 04:56 PM
My Win X64 rigg doesn't have any problems running 32bit-software... :smoking2:

x64 loves much ram and my X2 runs smoth like a ducks ass with it. Well, it's good stuff and you should look into it.

Drivers however have to be 64bit. So you might not be able to run your old printers which has that lovely bone-gray coloring ;)


Isn't Vista also about to run annoying copy protection stuff....?
some games still won't install right? I mean..really the main gamez I am concerned about are splinter cell chaos theory and if my oldschool emulators will still work. Will my NES emulator still work? I still play Mario Bothers on my SLI rig lol.
Mario 1 in SLI..it's great.
and about Vista waht do you mean annoying copy protection stuff? I have been free of piracy for a year and have sworn off so will this affect legal users.

anticitizenzero
02-07-06, 05:37 PM
Isnt it useless running 4gb of ram in xp anyways cause it will just eat the resourses up of the 2 extra gigs?

FearMeAll
02-07-06, 07:32 PM
Isnt it useless running 4gb of ram in xp anyways cause it will just eat the resourses up of the 2 extra gigs?
well actually it eats up 1.2 gigs of it.
so that means that no matter what xp wastes I still have at least 2 gigs of completely free ram for games and with the slots taken up I can still have dual channel. I don't know I thought FEAR hitched just a little bit less and maybe 4 gigs is a waste but I already bought the ram a while back ago and I want to use it. It's not hurting anything so I'm just going to keep it in there. when a game comes out that still chugs with windows only using 2.75 gigs then I'll get a 64bit operating system so I can use all the memory. Until then I am going to stick with what I know which is 32bit windows.

shaker718
02-08-06, 04:01 PM
This is an issue with filling all four banks with ram modules.
I had this problem on my NewCastle when I had 4x512MB of ram installed.
It dropped down to 333Mhz and 2T, I simply just went into the BIOS and manually set the speed to 400Mhz.


how do you do this? I have tried changing various settings in bios and it still runs at 333mhz. mind a quick tutorial?

Roliath
02-08-06, 04:19 PM
how do you do this? I have tried changing various settings in bios and it still runs at 333mhz. mind a quick tutorial?
Not familar with your board, but it should be in the section of the BIOS that deals with memory timings and/or speed. It will probably say 1:1 200Mhz or something like that, when filled with four dimms it will most likely go to 166Mhz (not sure what divider that is). Just set it back to 1:1 200Mhz and it "should" be fine.
sorry I can't be more specific..