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Zelda_fan

01-23-06, 01:12 AM

he just dropped 81 points in tonights game! That's more than Jordan ever did (69 against the cavs)! Holy ****!

jAkUp

01-23-06, 01:58 AM

Yup, I just saw the game. He has 2nd best game ever, only second to Wilt.

Zelda_fan

01-23-06, 02:03 AM

Yup, I just saw the game. He has 2nd best game ever, only second to Wilt.

In all fairness, I can't say that Wilt holds the scoring record. The only reason he got that 100 point game was becasue he was playing at a time when he was BY FAR the tallest player in the game. If he was playing today, he wouldn't have scored that amount.

jAkUp

01-23-06, 02:05 AM

Yup that is very true, he was the definition of domination at that time. Its a different game today.

Sazar

01-23-06, 02:07 AM

:eek:

HOLY COW

Man, I wish I watched the game :(

Kobe's been on fire this year.

Wrt Wilt, you can never compare people from different era's. So many rules were created to stop Wilt, same with Shaq in today's game. Big men in today's game simply can't dominate like they used to, the rules prevent them from taking over like they once did on the offensive end.

UDawg

01-23-06, 02:49 AM

he just dropped 81 points in tonights game! That's more than Jordan ever did (69 against the cavs)! Holy ****!
Did you just compare Kobe to Jordan? Kobe will never be as good as Jordan was. Kobe is a great ball player and athlete but he is no Jordan.

YOGIx213

01-23-06, 05:54 AM

Unbelievable. His numbers for that game are just staggering. Totally overshadowed the NFL Conference Championships (since both games were such onesided victories). Still in awe.

monkeydust

01-23-06, 06:43 AM

Kobe, Learn2Share

YOGIx213

01-23-06, 06:49 AM

He made over 60% of his FG's. His performance helped them win a game they desperately needed. They had lost 2 in a row in a tight conference. I would be peeved if he had 70 attempts and only converted 20%, but over 60% on 48 attempts is just mind boggling. If I were a teammate, I wouldn't even care about how many shots he was taking. If you see the hot hand, you go to it.

Tygerwoody

01-23-06, 12:01 PM

Did you just compare Kobe to Jordan? Kobe will never be as good as Jordan was. Kobe is a great ball player and athlete but he is no Jordan.
Sorry Udawg, but it sounds like you need a history lesson on Jordan.

Jordan is not this "mythical" figure you might believe. I might not know my politics as good as you, but I can hang with the best of them in Basketball History. Kobe Bryant in my opinion IS a better athelete and ball player than Jordan. Does that mean I like Kobe? Hell no, I can't stand the guy. Same with Allen Iverson, but you cannot take away the man's talent.

Kobe and Jordan are BOTH HUGE BALL HOGS. Not only that, but they are both assholes to their teams. They both have cheated on their wives. Kobe has a BETTER FG percentage than Jordan. Did you know that Jordan at one time held the RECORD for most missed shots? Something people don't talk about too often, but its true.

I think you should restate what you just said. Jordan was a great ball player, despite everything else. But, Jordan was no Kobe.

In the words of Allen Iverson just before he was draft picked and was asked if he wanted to be the next "Jordan".

Jordan Who?

jAkUp

01-23-06, 12:05 PM

Jordon shot a better career FG% than Kobe I believe, of course he missed the most shots, the also took the most shots. Kobe is probably up there to in most missed shots too.

But whos better? Its hard to say, they are both great. Kobe has a more balanced game I think.

DiscipleDOC

01-23-06, 12:11 PM

Kobe is also trying to sleep with as many women that Wilt did also. j/k

Seriously, Kobe is a truly gifted young man...

Vapor Trail

01-23-06, 12:15 PM

But whos better? Its hard to say, they are both great. Kobe has a more balanced game I think.

They are both great players. I'd give the nod to Jordan because of his defensive play though. He was a much better defender than Kobe is.
Kobe has a way to go as far as championships go too. He definately has the potential to surpass Jordan if he can keep his head straight.

schuey74

01-23-06, 12:38 PM

History remember winners, as in champions. The only time Jordan finished an NBA season as a loser from '91 - '98 was when he came back at the end of '95. Despite not being in the NBA those two years, he was still the best basketball player in the world. Who cares what his field goal percentage was as long as he was hitting the shots that won championships? Six for six in the finals, six finals MVPs. Show me any of today's leading scorers that are anywhere near Michael as a defender.......nine time all-defensive first team!

The term ball hog is miused so much. As the star of the team you need to shoot enough to help your team win. Early in his career Jordan may have shot too much or perhaps his team just sucked too much. If he hogged the ball and the Bulls lost his whole career you'd have an arguement. But Jordan shot the ball enough for two three-peats, if he shot less they likely would not have won (hence all those MVP and Final's MVP awards).

Without Kobe the Lakers would be horrible, it's obvious to anyone. He must shoot a ton for the Lakers to have a chance. And it's not like he's shooting 30% - 40% this season.

At the moment, Kobe is one of the greatest players in the league. But it's a huge stretch to put him up there w/ Michael right now. See me when he has another three-peat under his belt and is on more than two all-defensive first teams.

superklye

01-23-06, 12:40 PM

They are both great players. I'd give the nod to Jordan because of his defensive play though. He was a much better defender than Kobe is.
That's because there is no defense in the NBA anymore. It's all about who can get more points without really stopping the other team from scoring.

UDawg

01-23-06, 12:51 PM

Sorry Udawg, but it sounds like you need a history lesson on Jordan.

Jordan is not this "mythical" figure you might believe. I might not know my politics as good as you, but I can hang with the best of them in Basketball History. Kobe Bryant in my opinion IS a better athelete and ball player than Jordan. Does that mean I like Kobe? Hell no, I can't stand the guy. Same with Allen Iverson, but you cannot take away the man's talent.

Kobe and Jordan are BOTH HUGE BALL HOGS. Not only that, but they are both assholes to their teams. They both have cheated on their wives. Kobe has a BETTER FG percentage than Jordan. Did you know that Jordan at one time held the RECORD for most missed shots? Something people don't talk about too often, but its true.

I think you should restate what you just said. Jordan was a great ball player, despite everything else. But, Jordan was no Kobe.

In the words of Allen Iverson just before he was draft picked and was asked if he wanted to be the next "Jordan".

What are you talking about? I know just as much about basketball as I do politics. Kobe is no Jordan. Missed shots are not a mark of a bad player. Reggie Jackson lead the MLB in strike outs yet he was a great home run hitter and in the hall of fame. Your point is meaningless. My history lesson includes a foot note about Jordan missing a bunch of shots during a game? OH NOOOEESS. Also what does cheating have to do with playing ball?

Kobe always was on winning teams, Jordan was not until he drove everyone around him away. Please don't talk to me about not knowing basketball history.

nV`andrew

01-23-06, 01:15 PM

kobe's on a good team? (omg)

bishibashiboy

01-23-06, 01:36 PM

Kobe has more range than Jordan ever did on his jumpshot.
However, he's definitely not the better percentage shooter. MJ shot better than 50% for his CAREER. Kobe is no where near that. What that means is that MJ had better shot selection throughout his career than Kobe, and didn't rely as much on 3 point bombs.

As far as who's the better player, in my opinion, Jordan is still the greatest. He went all out on both offense and defense. If you watch Kobe play defense nowadays, it's embarrasing compared to what he's capable of. His screen roll defense is atrocious, and he plays guys soft unless he has a beef with them (eg. Ray Allen). He also gambles a lot in the passing lanes and compromises the Laker's D. Jordan was once MVP AND Defensive player of the year while leading the league in scoring. At this point it doesn't look like Kobe will do that.

With that said, it's just amazing that in the modern game someone can score 81 points. It's doubtful he could do it against Detroit or the better offensive teams, but 81 is still 81. Amazing feat.

UDawg

01-23-06, 02:08 PM

kobe's on a good team? (omg)
I didn't say he was on a good team.

Another thing Bishi said, Jordan and awesome defence, Kobe is more like Dr. J. He has great offence but zero defence.

Honsetly I could care less who is better. I just don't like it when some one brings up silly arguments after attacking someone's knowlege of a subject. Tyger, you don't know what I know about basketball.

Tygerwoody

01-23-06, 02:24 PM

What are you talking about? I know just as much about basketball as I do politics. Kobe is no Jordan. Missed shots are not a mark of a bad player. Reggie Jackson lead the MLB in strike outs yet he was a great home run hitter and in the hall of fame. Your point is meaningless. My history lesson includes a foot note about Jordan missing a bunch of shots during a game? OH NOOOEESS. Also what does cheating have to do with playing ball?

Kobe always was on winning teams, Jordan was not until he drove everyone around him away. Please don't talk to me about not knowing basketball history.
I never said Jordan was bad, but this "he's no Jordan" is kind of rediculous. So rediculous its TRUE. Kobe is no Jordan, he's better.

Jordan was not on a winning team? Excuse me? Pippen? Rodman? Longley? Are you hearing these names? Kerr? Kukoc? Wennington? Brown?

Bulls were STACKED, just like the Laker's were STACKED. I'm not seeing your point.

One thing Kobe doesn't have as much as Jordan is defense. Some things you have to consider though is 1. Kobe is very young 2. Kobe probably doesn't even practice defense, because defense just isn't as prized for a Guard as it once was.

Tygerwoody

01-23-06, 02:31 PM

Honsetly I could care less who is better. I just don't like it when some one brings up silly arguments after attacking someone's knowlege of a subject. Tyger, you don't know what I know about basketball.
I was going to drop the topic.

Why make an assumption like that you can't back up?

I have to admit, if you know something about basketball then Kudos to you and I am sorry for insulting you "basketball intelligence". You know as well as I do when basketball talk is brought up and someone brings up Jordan, 9 times out of 10 he knows dick **** about basketball because Jordan is/was not as good as he is made out to be. As a person who follows basketball you should know this.

Jordan is a better defensive player than Kobe, but Kobe is a better offensive player than Jordan.

UDawg

01-23-06, 02:42 PM

I was going to drop the topic.

Why make an assumption like that you can't back up?

I have to admit, if you know something about basketball then Kudos to you and I am sorry for insulting you "basketball intelligence". You know as well as I do when basketball talk is brought up and someone brings up Jordan, 9 times out of 10 he knows dick **** about basketball because Jordan is/was not as good as he is made out to be. As a person who follows basketball you should know this.

Jordan is a better defensive player than Kobe, but Kobe is a better offensive player than Jordan.
I don't know what assumption you are saying I made and what do I have to back up? I can let Jordan's record speak for its self. Further more I am not a Jordan fan but he WAS as good as he was made out to be. You are trying to dimish something that because of a dislike.

Now I never said Jordan was the best ever. I don't think he is. I just don't think Kobe is as good as Jordan. I grew up with Dr. J, Georger Gervin, Bird, Magic, Mcguire, Wilkins, Bernard, Kareem ect. I have a huge pool to draw from of great players. In the 90s there wasn't this huge pool to draw from. A couple of players come along like Kobe and James and NBA fans grab on to them as this generation's heroes. This is fine and understandable but they are in the middle of their careers and to say they are comparable with other greats is silly. Just let time play its self out.

WRT to Jordan, you obviusly have a dislike for his status as the best ever, you live in LA or you are a Knicks fan. ;)

UDawg

01-23-06, 02:57 PM

I never said Jordan was bad, but this "he's no Jordan" is kind of rediculous. So rediculous its TRUE. Kobe is no Jordan, he's better.
When Kobe learns to play defence like Jorand we can have a serious conversation about this.

Jordan was not on a winning team? Excuse me? Pippen? Rodman? Longley? Are you hearing these names? Kerr? Kukoc? Wennington? Brown?
When was that dynasty put together? 1987 was the year Pippen was drafted. He was traded from my Sonics to the Bulls for Olden Polynice. Jordan came in to the NBA in 84. Between that time they bulls SUCKED! In fact I remember when Jordan was drafted everyone said "poor jordan he is going to the Bulls" The bulls were a crappy team no one even thought about. The team was built up later with drafts and trades about Jordan.
Bulls were STACKED, just like the Laker's were STACKED. I'm not seeing your point.
My point is Jordan started with a crappy team and Kobe started off on a good one.
One thing Kobe doesn't have as much as Jordan is defense. Some things you have to consider though is 1. Kobe is very young 2. Kobe probably doesn't even practice defense, because defense just isn't as prized for a Guard as it once was.
As much defence? Jordan was almost always 1st team defence. He was a awesome defender. Not the best but awesome. He was a very good defender at NC and continued to get better. Your points about Kobe not being a good defender has nothing to do with being young. It has to do with skill.

Now I don't knwo where you get the idea that a gaurd being a defender isn't prized as much anymore. It sounds like you are trying to down-play defence to up the importance of your argument. ;) Defence wins championships. It always has. Now with zone defence back in the NBA defence is more important, unlike it was in the 80 and 90s where all man on man.

Your initail assumption that I didn't know much about BBall struck me as funny. I was in basketball leagues ever since I can remember. I think you bit off more than you can chew on this one bro.:D I'm just trying to raz ya now. ;)

Viventis

01-23-06, 03:01 PM

With all of this Kobe vs. Jordan talk about the greatest player/guard of all time, you have to look a little farther back to get some perspective. Oscar Robertson was the most complete ballplayer of his or any other time.

"Statistically, one need look no further than the numbers Robertson put up in 1961-62, just his second year in the league: 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 11.4 assists per game-an average of a triple-double for an entire season!" (www.nba.com)

Here are his carreer stats:

G FG% FT% Rebs RPG Asts APG Pts PPG

1,040 .485 .838 7,804 7.5 9,887 9.5 26,710 25.7

Full Name: Oscar Palmer Robertson
Born: 11/24/38 in Charlotte, Tenn.
High School: Crispus Attucks (Indianapolis)
College: Cincinnati
Drafted: Cincinnati Royals, 1960 (first overall)
Transactions: Traded to Milwaukee, 4/21/70
Height: 6-5; Weight: 220 lbs. Nickname: Big O
Honors: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1980); NBA champion (1971); NBA MVP (1964); Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1961-69); All-NBA Second Team (1970, '71); Rookie of Year (1961); 12-time All-Star (1961-72); All-Star MVP (1961, '64, '69); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Olympic gold medalist ('60).

UDawg

01-23-06, 03:07 PM