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jAkUp
02-11-06, 09:50 PM
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200602/065_p1.asp

Mr_LoL
02-12-06, 05:08 AM
Ah how I love these chats and interviews with anymous developers. i will hold my breath till something offical comes out about the console.

|MaguS|
02-12-06, 06:15 AM
I never believe anonymous interviews like these because there no reason for teh developer to hide himself. Sony does not require them to sign an NDA and if the publisher of the developer doesn't want the project that they are working on known yet then the interview wouldn't be allowed.

There is alot of wrong information there aswell, one is the lack of hardware AA, the performance statements also contradict what Sweeny has spoken to PSM about (PS3 running UT2007 better then a PC with the same graphics settings). Last is the fact that they state the developer hasn't recieved the PS3 yet... why would they? Developers only recieve a console when they purchase it themselves, they don't burn Blu-Ray disc. All testing is done on the DevKit (which they call a tower but is actually a rack mounted unit now, another strike) and when the code is finalized it is sent to Sony who then Prints the discs.

AthlonXP1800
02-12-06, 09:56 AM
Just finished read page 1, cant get to page 2 as the site really getting hammered badly. It seem Sony doing very good job keeping beta console hardware deafen slience in secret months from from launch. The beta console are very close to the final spec just like Microsoft did with beta Xbox 360 console some Microsoft guy's whiz kid beta tested it.

Knot3D
02-12-06, 10:33 AM
Well, the article is isn't all that coherent. No way any games site/mag editor can draw any conclusions from such an early hands on preview.

The only consistent thing what devs are saying is that they can do on PS3 what they can on Xbox360, but more of that simultaniously. Now, that might sound a bit tame, but for immersion and gameplay it can possibly make alot of difference.

Zelda_fan
02-12-06, 11:03 AM
I never believe anonymous interviews like these because there no reason for teh developer to hide himself. Sony does not require them to sign an NDA and if the publisher of the developer doesn't want the project that they are working on known yet then the interview wouldn't be allowed.


If Sony dosent' require an NDA and you have seen the dev kits, then lets hear some inside info Magus.

|MaguS|
02-12-06, 11:36 AM
If Sony dosent' require an NDA and you have seen the dev kits, then lets hear some inside info Magus.

Sony doesn't require an NDA, but EA did. Like I stated, Its up to the publishers discretion. I can tell you what I am allowed to... but nothing that EA doesn't want you to know (basically their game in development).

Zelda_fan
02-12-06, 11:39 AM
Sony doesn't require an NDA, but EA did. Like I stated, Its up to the publishers discretion. I can tell you what I am allowed to... but nothing that EA doesn't want you to know (basically their game in development).

I don't care about their game developement, I just want to know what's in the PS3 devkits. (don't take a chance at losing your job though if youthink they'd get pissed).

|MaguS|
02-12-06, 11:49 AM
When I was using them the kits contained a 2.4Ghz Cell CPU and an RSX but it aswell was running at a lower clock (I think it was a 7800GTX insted though). We had a beta compiler that was pretty poor but were told that a better version was in the works, though on the title we were working on we were going to use a middleware application insted of coding our own.

EDIT: And for all those who like to argue this and that... The x360 was easier to program for, MS provided some great tools at the time (didn't like the documentation all that much but it was as helpful as it needed to be).

Nv40
02-12-06, 12:34 PM
Whether the article is genuine or not based from what the site saw a couple of PS3 developers where doing is plain wrong to predict future performance between console(s) by looking at the quality 3 developers got in 3 playable games.. not yet released ..perhaps launch titles. The diference at E3 between many games (that there wasnt controversy ) was night and day. its just like PC.. the diferences between graphics in games across diferent developers are huge many times even when released in the same year. We could be comparing artist quality instead of the real hardware capabilities ,that the people are interested to know. For the article could be about what they saw the developers of a Sonic and a golf game and perhaps FPS shooter from a not popular developer where doing and concluded the consoles will be about the same in the next 5 years .

if history can teach us something is that early launch titles never shows the console max potentials.the same apply for all consoles. THe only thing that is true in all that article is that developers is the key , not because the consoles are equally fast or not. but because this have been always the case. Give the PS2 to developers like Hideo Kojima and they will always do more impressive stuff in a weaker console than amateurs developers in the xbox1 which is a generation ahead in hardware technology . Now if the consoles are indeed "equally fast" as the author suggest after seeing nothing more than 3 early games in action. Still is not less true that best -console only- developers are backing up mainly the PS3.
All things equal from the hardware side ,will show the PS3 leading in graphics in the end for its developers.

THe interview is not bad ,but the interviewer conlusions are flawed. when using 3 early games to judge if killzone graphics will be possible or not .developers are just begining to learn how to use the console .

WHat i find odd , in that article is that they ignored completely the many new posibilities Bluray will bring to the table in the PS3 . HD Resolutions arent the only benefits ,the PS3 out of the box will have about 5xtimes bigger capacity media storage than Xbox360 .and that is not a small diference in any way. which can be used for a significant greater quality game content in games. Higher quality textures ,game data and more variety too ,plus higher quality cinematics/music in games and less loading times. While DEvelopers on the Xbox360 will need to use heavy compression techniques and waste precious cpu cycles in the consoles to make games fits in a sigle DVD .

The consesus until now is that PS3 is more dificult to work ,but that have/(may have) more probabilities in the end between slighty better/faster graphics/physics.... all the way to significant diferences .once developers learn how to. thanks to 1)Higher Floating Performance in CEll 2)5x times more capacity storage for higher quality content -and 3) and greater developer support with more exclusive AAA titles,thanks to how much bigger the playstation community was in the last two generation. .it have been said that major Gaming publishers targetting all consoles ,have their biggest projects and their more talented teams of every developer studio in Sony next gen console and this is not coincidence , is not because is the one more dificult to to work and that need more people to achieve good results, but because its leadership in the consoles market remains untouchable. So publishers looking for better profits will place most of their resources$ , not in wish console they think is the more powerfull or easier (neither wish one carmack prefers.. ;) ) ,those things are a bonus ..but in the console with more probabilities to sale lots and lots of more games.

lightman
02-12-06, 01:36 PM
didn't like the documentation all that much but it was as helpful as it needed to be.

What about the ps3 dev kit's docs ? Afaik, the ps2 docs were really good...

|MaguS|
02-12-06, 03:07 PM
The PS2 had HORRIBLE (and still does to some degree) documentation, the PS3 had some good and poor documentation mainly because it was still incomplete (revisions were constantly being sent in). Main thing is that Sony was not the only one to send in documentation, we recieved information directly from IBM and Nvidia (especially on OpenGL ES).

One thing that was poor was orginization, we had to shuffle through alot of crap to get to what we were looking for or needed. They were good enough to include many demo's and examples on the new aspects of the hardware (Coding for the SPUs).

Badboy_12345
02-12-06, 06:25 PM
WHat i find odd , in that article is that they ignored completely the many new posibilities Bluray will bring to the table in the PS3 . HD Resolutions arent the only benefits ,the PS3 out of the box will have about 5xtimes bigger capacity media storage than Xbox360 .and that is not a small diference in any way. which can be used for a significant greater quality game content in games. Higher quality textures ,game data and more variety too ,plus higher quality cinematics/music in games and less loading times. While DEvelopers on the Xbox360 will need to use heavy compression techniques and waste precious cpu cycles in the consoles to make games fits in a sigle DVD .


ehh the ps3 will actually have higher loading time for the same things as x360..
the x360 has a 12x dvd drive and for the bluray to match it it would require a 4x blueray drive which would cost too much and sony would NEVER implement a drive like that in the ps3 the costs would go through the roof..
the best u would get is a 2x bluray drive in the ps3 if even that, I expect a 1x drive. So the loading times WILL be higher on ps3 than x360

The consesus until now is that PS3 is more dificult to work ,but that have/(may have) more probabilities in the end between slighty better/faster graphics/physics.... all the way to significant diferences .once developers learn how to. thanks to 1)Higher Floating Performance in CEll 2)5x times more capacity storage for higher quality content -and 3) and greater developer support with more exclusive AAA titles,thanks to how much bigger the playstation community was in the last two generation. .it have been said that major Gaming publishers targetting all consoles ,have their biggest projects and their more talented teams of every developer studio in Sony next gen console and this is not coincidence , is not because is the one more dificult to to work and that need more people to achieve good results, but because its leadership in the consoles market remains untouchable. So publishers looking for better profits will place most of their resources$ , not in wish console they think is the more powerfull or easier (neither wish one carmack prefers.. ) ,those things are a bonus ..but in the console with more probabilities to sale lots and lots of more games.

well MS will have much more developers this time around beacuse the ps3 is VERY LATE.
As u said developers gather where the cash is and now it is with the x360 which is actually out now in most of the world and developers can earn the money. PS3 isnt out and wont be for some time, the earliest it will be out is in a few months and thats only in japan, where no american, european developer has a chance to sell any games in. We can expect ps3 by chirstmas or something in USA and 2007!!! in europe. So no I dont think developers will flock on the ps3 any time soon.

Bad_Boy
02-12-06, 06:49 PM
ehh the ps3 will actually have higher loading time for the same things as x360..
the x360 has a 12x dvd drive and for the bluray to match it it would require a 4x blueray drive which would cost too much and sony would NEVER implement a drive like that in the ps3 the costs would go through the roof..
the best u would get is a 2x bluray drive in the ps3 if even that, I expect a 1x drive. So the loading times WILL be higher on ps3 than x360

Please my other "badboy" counterpart, enlighten us, how much would a 4x blu ray player cost over a 2x? :o

Badboy_12345
02-12-06, 07:00 PM
Please my other "badboy" counterpart, enlighten us, how much would a 4x blu ray player cost over a 2x? :o

I dont know beacuse there arent any prices on it but obviously alot more

|MaguS|
02-12-06, 07:50 PM
ehh the ps3 will actually have higher loading time for the same things as x360..
the x360 has a 12x dvd drive and for the bluray to match it it would require a 4x blueray drive which would cost too much and sony would NEVER implement a drive like that in the ps3 the costs would go through the roof..
the best u would get is a 2x bluray drive in the ps3 if even that, I expect a 1x drive. So the loading times WILL be higher on ps3 than x360

A Blu-Ray player transfers over 3x (36Mbps compared to 11Mbps) the amount of data then a DVD does (at 1x), It will probably be easily over the 12x speed for DVDs. The Blu-Ray player in the PS3 MUST be a min of atleast 2x since BD-ROM Movies require atleast 54Mbps transfer rates. So basically, if the games use DVD Disc's for their games the load time should be equal or better then the xbox 360s (aslong as its coded good, we have seen bad load times on both PS2 and Xbox) and if they use Blu-Ray the load times shouldn't be bad at all with the large amount of data that is moved at a slower speed, unlike how DVDs require a much higher speed to equel the same amount of data. In short this will also lower the sound created by the drive making the PS3 a much quieter system then the x360.


well MS will have much more developers this time around beacuse the ps3 is VERY LATE.
As u said developers gather where the cash is and now it is with the x360 which is actually out now in most of the world and developers can earn the money. PS3 isnt out and wont be for some time, the earliest it will be out is in a few months and thats only in japan, where no american, european developer has a chance to sell any games in. We can expect ps3 by chirstmas or something in USA and 2007!!! in europe. So no I dont think developers will flock on the ps3 any time soon.

The PS3 isn't out yet but sony has announced that already over 100 developers in Japan alone have jumped on the PS3, thats half of what the xbox360 has total, now include Europe and America and you have more developers on the PS3 bandwagon.


Learn what your talking about before spouting nonsense.

Nv40
02-12-06, 09:36 PM
ehh the ps3 will actually have higher loading time for the same things as x360..
the x360 has a 12x dvd drive and for the bluray to match it it would require a 4x blueray drive which would cost too much and sony would NEVER implement a drive like that in the ps3 the costs would go through the roof..
the best u would get is a 2x bluray drive in the ps3 if even that, I expect a 1x drive. So the loading times WILL be higher on ps3 than x360



well MS will have much more developers this time around beacuse the ps3 is VERY LATE.
As u said developers gather where the cash is and now it is with the x360 which is actually out now in most of the world and developers can earn the money. PS3 isnt out and wont be for some time, the earliest it will be out is in a few months and thats only in japan, where no american, european developer has a chance to sell any games in. We can expect ps3 by chirstmas or something in USA and 2007!!! in europe. So no I dont think developers will flock on the ps3 any time soon.




aside for what have been said there is also techniques to improve loading times for Bluray significantly. Where you record repetitive data in *many places* on the disc to speed the lazer access to information... instead of searching the entire disk ,like usually DVDs will need to do ,when their games fits entirely the disc. the lazer can grab the same data from many places but pick the nearest one ,speeding loading times in a significant way. FOr this technique to work you need *lots of free space* on the Media . Something that not many Xbox360 games will have. since already a few games on the Xbox1 reach the limits of DVD media. and this time there is no integrated harddisk to help.

evilchris
02-12-06, 11:36 PM
Wow, no one on this thread knows a god damn thing about Blu-ray.

CaptNKILL
02-13-06, 01:37 AM
Wow, no one on this thread knows a god damn thing about Blu-ray.
Yeah, and everyone keeps forgetting the E in blue... GAWD, you're all horrible speelars. :D

ENU291
02-13-06, 08:13 AM
It's math times boys and girls!! Blu-ray specs specify at data rate of 36bps (megabits per second) which equates to 4.5 megabytes per second. DVD ROM 1X data rate is 1350 kilobytes or 1.35 megabytes per second. Now if we apply some math we will see that the Xbox360's 12X DVD ROM drive can achieve 16.2 megabytes per second transfer rates. For the PS3's Blu-ray drive to match the transfer rate of the Xbox360 it would have to run at 3.6X speed (round that off to 4X to make it more realistic). This means that our friend Badboy_12345 was pretty much on the money with his statement about the PS3's blu-ray drive speed.

|MaguS|
02-13-06, 08:50 AM
Your comparing the 1X speed of Blu-Ray reading to the 12x speed of DVD reading. It has not be stated what the speed of the DVD read capabilities will be of the PS3. So far Panasonic has come up with a PC Blu-Ray drive that can read Blu-Ray media at 2x speed and DVD media at 8x speed, Mind you that the drive they developed is also a writer, remove the writing capabilities and you can gain more read speed... whos to say that Sony wont develop a 12x speed DVD media reader for the PS3?

ENU291
02-13-06, 09:06 AM
MaguS you are correct. We should not be comparing Blu-Ray read speeds with DVD-ROM read speeds. What troubles me is that PS3 loyalist are touting the benefits of having massive next-gen 20+ gigabyte games on Blu-ray media. Now if we are to believe that Sony will install a 2X/12X Blu-ray drive into the PS3 what happens to load times when games are released on Blu-ray media? If the numbers are correct that means that Blu-ray games will be read at 9 megabytes per second!!
Your comparing the 1X speed of Blu-Ray reading to the 12x speed of DVD reading. It has not be stated what the speed of the DVD read capabilities will be of the PS3. So far Panasonic has come up with a PC Blu-Ray drive that can read Blu-Ray media at 2x speed and DVD media at 8x speed, Mind you that the drive they developed is also a writer, remove the writing capabilities and you can gain more read speed... whos to say that Sony wont develop a 12x speed DVD media reader for the PS3?

evilchris
02-13-06, 09:11 AM
Sony goofed spec'ing a BR drive in a game console, nuff said.

|MaguS|
02-13-06, 09:15 AM
Yes, with Blu-Ray discs there will be longer load times when compared to DVD just like there were longer load times when comparing CD to DVD when DVDs first released. PS2 titles when released on CD loaded very quickly compared to DVDs but then programers learned to lower (and in some games totally removed) load times.

So probably early Blu-Ray games will have a decent load time but later in the systems life we can see these times being reduced alot more.

My personal love for Blu-Ray is the lack of needing to go multi-disc with it, I will deal with the loadtimes as long as Im not stopped in the middle of my game and asked to get up and insert disc 2 or 3...

hordaktheman
02-13-06, 01:02 PM
I think you guys are making an issue where there is none. 1x, 2x, and 4x speeds are just arbitrary numbers for a standard, and not necessarily a limitation from a production standpoint. Just because they have a numbering scheme attached to it doesn't mean they have issues ramping up speeds, and considering the experience these companies have with optical media, I don't think there are any huge price differentials between the different speeds. When CD-ROM first came to the PC, going from 1x to 3x speeds took years, but when they gained experience those speeds shot up to 52x. Likewise, DVD-ROM started out at modest speeds, but shot up to it's maximum in less than half the time it took for CD-ROMs.

Having that experience, I don't think 4x Blu-Ray drives are a problem for Sony to produce. Especially since that only translates to roughly 4000 rpm/sec, which is far cry from the 10.000(ish) rounds per minute 52x CD-ROM and 16x DVD-ROM drives spin at.