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CKS
02-12-06, 08:19 PM
for windows vista, because none of the nvidia and ati cards support HDCP, u guys know that?

Roadhog
02-12-06, 08:28 PM
uhh so? why would card made before vista is out support something thats not even out.

akakig
02-12-06, 08:28 PM
what is that ?:o High Def ....

shabby
02-12-06, 08:39 PM
Hdcp is only needed if you want to watch bluray/hd-dvd movies on vista, since i rarely watch even dvd's on the comp it really doesnt bother me.

theslug
02-12-06, 08:45 PM
what is that ?:o High Def ....

content protection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

a12ctic
02-12-06, 08:59 PM
windows vista is going to suck, i certainly dont care, ive been windows free for a few years (at least on my computer)

Rakeesh
02-12-06, 09:48 PM
Nobody is going to just put up with that. Somebody will crack the measures which enable that before windows vista even comes out, and nothing will change.

Sazar
02-12-06, 10:06 PM
Hdcp is only needed if you want to watch bluray/hd-dvd movies on vista, since i rarely watch even dvd's on the comp it really doesnt bother me.

Exactly.

For that matter, most displays also are not HDCP compliant.

keith33
02-12-06, 10:07 PM
Nobody is going to just put up with that. Somebody will crack the measures which enable that before windows vista even comes out, and nothing will change.

Amen, I don't want another f---ing root kit on my computer.

HighTest
02-12-06, 10:29 PM
Check out this article: http://www.behardware.com/articles/603-4/hdcp-the-graphic-card-and-monitor-nightmare.html

Tends to spell out the deal. Apparently the GPU's support the ability on the "core" but that all manufacturers are not including the Silicon Image or Texas Instruments chip at this time to the card.

So it's "downrez" time, but hey! Everyone knew this would be a problem as all current monitor technology is also not HDCP compliant, even the new top end Dell monitors or the Apple 30" Cinema.

We'll just buy a new card all over again.

Sazar
02-12-06, 10:34 PM
3007 is HDCP compliant.

All dell WS displays will be HDCP compliant with the refresh later this year for the 20", 24" and 27" monitors.

CKS
02-12-06, 11:04 PM
gateway FPD2185WH is HDCP ready, and I am going to get it probably in the next month or so, however, my 6600gt is not.

by the time windows vista is out, blu-ray is available, I guess we don't have a choice but spend thousand of bucks upgrading just to watch a hd-content. I hope somebody cracks the thing soon.

Rakeesh
02-12-06, 11:40 PM
3007 is HDCP compliant.

All dell WS displays will be HDCP compliant with the refresh later this year for the 20", 24" and 27" monitors.

You know what though, there have often been incompatibilities between HDCP compliant devices so that they only work as regular DVI.

It doesn't seem like a very well engineered standard to me in light of that. But in either case, that, along with the fact that hardly anybody owns HDCP compliant monitors, and that virtually nobody owns any HDCP compliant video cards...you can pretty much rule out any support for full video quality for anybody the time being.

An interesting side effect of this though, is that it would put a quick end to the manufacturing of analog monitors, thus the price of digital monitors would drop significantly.

by the time windows vista is out, blu-ray is available, I guess we don't have a choice but spend thousand of bucks upgrading just to watch a hd-content. I hope somebody cracks the thing soon.

Trust me when I say it will be cracked long before vista or blu-ray even comes out. Microsofts beta releases get pirated heavily long before they go gold, and I guarentee you that the mechanism to ensure that the protection is in place is going to work for both hd-dvd and blu-ray rather than just one or the other. My monitor is HDCP compliant, and I own legit copies of XP, but I still anticipate preferring a pirated version that will probably have this cracked right out of the box.

CKS
02-13-06, 12:21 AM
DRM is out for a long time, but nobody seems to be able to crack it up to this point, am I right?

Rakeesh
02-13-06, 12:41 AM
DRM is out for a long time, but nobody seems to be able to crack it up to this point, am I right?

DRM is a generic term. All it means is Digital Rights Management (which is a misleading term as it facilitates digital restrictions rather than digital rights.) I personally can't think of any DRM schemes for multimedia that haven't been cracked. The itunes DRM is always cracked in very short order every time apple updates it. The CSS DRM on DVDs was completely reverse engineered (not cracked - better than cracked that is - since we can do a full, on-the-fly decrypt) a long, long time ago. Microsofts DRM for encrypted WMV content is always getting cracked.

I can't think of any software DRM schemes that haven't been cracked either. There are cracks and other workarounds for even the latest starforce, which for whatever reason is largely regarded as being the hardest to crack.

Rakeesh
02-13-06, 12:49 AM
This all aside though, there were many nvidia and ATI cards that were sold with full HDCP support being advertised. Now that this obviously isn't the case, I wonder if there are going to be class action consumer lawsuits against them?

Q
02-13-06, 02:16 AM
This all aside though, there were many nvidia and ATI cards that were sold with full HDCP support being advertised. Now that this obviously isn't the case, I wonder if there are going to be class action consumer lawsuits against them?

I certainly hope so. There has been enough false advertising from both of these companies that I think its about time for some action. (Yes, I'm still sore for my old 6800 Ultra AGP not supporting WMVHD).

On topic...kinda...everyone is claiming that this thing is going to be cracked, and cracked soon. I'm not too sure about that, though. I'm rooting for it being cracked, but I don't see it happening. Even though Microsoft makes an OS that's super easy to be cracked (I'd think to avoid compatibility and registration issues), there is one thing they have created that is yet to be cracked: WMA.

WMA (protected) files are uncrackable. Period. How many years has it been out? Version 9, the uncracked one, has been out for at least two years. The stakes are way too high for Microsoft to have this format cracked. WMA is THE other format for online music distribution that doesn't come in shiny white. Napster and the 20 other online music stores that allow unlimited downloads per month would have to shut down or radically change their terms of service. Apple's format has been safe even though the DRM is easily removed for the simple fact that you have to pay per song/album. Napster and the others bank on being different than Apple and offer unlimited downloads. If the DRM was cracked, it could kill what little competition that exists for Apple.

Point being (after that long winded spiel), is that we are all counting on this format to be cracked even though Microsoft has proven it can create a format that is uncrackable.

Digital_Trans
02-13-06, 02:44 AM
windows vista is going to suck, i certainly dont care, ive been windows free for a few years (at least on my computer)


HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE........(nana2)

HighTest
02-13-06, 11:21 AM
Here's another article to through more fuel on the fire:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/

Since it's inevitable and has been available as a technology from 2003, with Microsoft repeatedly reminding the GPU makers, there's only one usefull response:

I WANT MY HDCP! (Queue the music)

As any third-party software "decription" scheme is not ever a usefull solution. If you have MCE, Sage TV, etc you want your hardware to support your needs so that you have full support from the vendor and can expect patches, etc to help solve incompatibilities.

So the fact that existing cards don't have the full support required, in a simple phrase "sucks".

Think about it, you've just purchased your SLI board, two 7800GTX 512MB cards and can dish up FPS like you couldn't believe, yet you can only watch "commercial" HD content in "quarter" resolution of what it was produced in? To put in in perspective 1080i/p content will be down rezed to 720P, and 720P content to 480P. Since a lot of content will be produced in 720P due to those "EDTV" systems sold on the market as "HDTV", you'll only be able to watch it at 480P, on what $1500 of graphics hardware?

Yeecchhhhh. You've all just wasted your money if HDTV "commercially produced" content is one of your needs.

HighTest
02-13-06, 11:25 AM
windows vista is going to suck, i certainly dont care, ive been windows free for a few years (at least on my computer)

You just don't have the full "clue" do ya :( It's not about Linux, Mac OS X or Windows Vista, so listen very carefully.

HDCP is a hardware based encryption standard that has keys in the hardware at manufacture. The HD DVD and Blue Ray send the HDCP content to the "compatible" hardware all the way up the chain to the HDCP monitor. Any break in the chain defaults back to the downconverted stream that is also produced.

All Vista, Linux and Mac OS X will do is provide the hardware drivers for the hardware and software that is compliant to those streams.

So Linux dudes and dudettes are also in the same boat, capiché

Demigod
02-13-06, 11:38 AM
Point being (after that long winded spiel), is that we are all counting on this format to be cracked even though Microsoft has proven it can create a format that is uncrackable.


It has been possible to remove wma drm like apples drm for a while.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89243&highlight=wma+crack

Peoples-Agent
02-13-06, 12:00 PM
I can't believe I might possibly be forced to a pirate OS by this.
It's looking more that way everytime I hear about it, ....if all these suspicions are made a reality... way to go M$ , my Windows loyalty would be gone.

Q
02-13-06, 12:10 PM
It has been possible to remove wma drm like apples drm for a while.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89243&highlight=wma+crack

I remember reading about that when it was happening. As it turns out, although WMA was promised to be cracked, it was only WMV. And it was patched up shortly after the exploit.

ViN86
02-13-06, 12:21 PM
Amen, I don't want another f---ing root kit on my computer.
QFT

Medion
02-13-06, 12:27 PM
Since a lot of content will be produced in 720P due to those "EDTV" systems sold on the market as "HDTV",

480i = standard tv
480p = EDTV

720p is a form of HDTV. There are numerous active HDTV resolutions: 540p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p among others. HDTV is not limited to one resolution, and 720p is not EDTV.