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McTurok
01-20-03, 04:57 PM
Hi guys,

My little brother has a PIII 733 computer with
a Geforce 2 MX 64 meg in it.

I want to upgrade him a little bit and use that
old card for another slower pc.

What would you all suggest for less then $100?
He can afford a Ti4200 so that is out of the question.

I'd rather stay away from ATI products since he
is running so slow and I think the Geforce would be
faster for him.

He's also got 374 meg of SDRam in it. PC133.

I got to pricewatch and here is the list. Ebay is to if'y.

$89.00 - Geforce4 MX 460 (only 64 meg of ram)
$69.00 - Geforce4 MX 440 (128 meg of ram!!)
$82.00 - Geforce3 Ti 200 (64 meg of ram)

ATi (oh no!!)
$95.00 Radeon 9000 Pro (128 meg)
$82.00 Radeon 9000 Pro (64 meg)
$66.00 Radeon 8500 (64 meg)
$62.00 Radeon 9000 (64 meg)

The only Geforce card I've ever bought is that Geforce2 MX
and it runs great. I'm just not sure which Nvidia card will
be the biggest improvement on his P3 733 computer.

Thanks for all youf advice in advance.

netviper13
01-20-03, 05:03 PM
Well no matter what card you get, he's going to be CPU limited in games; so I'd go with the Radeon 9000 so that he can turn on a little AA or Aniso in games.

If you are absolutely wanting to avoid ATI at all costs, then go with the GeForce3 Ti200; at least it has DX8 support, which the GF4 MX doesn't have.

Chalnoth
01-20-03, 05:18 PM
I'd really suggest he just save a little bit more and get the Ti 4200. It shouldn't cost more than $120, after shipping and everything (You can get one from www.newegg.com for $117 with free shipping...).

But just fyi, the ATI Radeon 8500 is faster than the Radeon 9000, and is the same as the Radeon 9100.

The Radeon 9500's cheapest price on pricewatch is $137.

Update:
One last thing. An ATI card may not be very good for a slower CPU anyway:

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030120/vgacharts-03.html

McTurok
01-20-03, 05:24 PM
I just saw that...I was looking at the main page.
Fix my original post and remove the 9500.

By having DX 9 support on a card, will that increase
his FPS at all? I really don't see how that will help
him out.

4200 is just too expensive. I wish it would drop
to under $100. It just doesn't seem worth it right
now to me.

Right now it looks like I'm leaning toward the:

Geforce3 Ti 200 - 64 meg

Thanks for that link Chalnoth

Chalnoth
01-20-03, 05:30 PM
The DX9 support will not help at all for current games, but will help for DOOM3 and perhaps other future titles.

The primary benefit of the 9500 and 9700 series is with anti-aliasing.

Anyway, I would suggest only purchasing a DX8 card or above (GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti).

And btw, the plain GeForce3 is faster than the Ti 200, and I see one right now on pricewatch that is cheaper (and it's a Visiontek, too...).

ragejg
01-20-03, 06:48 PM
dang, I haven't heard anyone recommending a GF3 in a long time!
:rolleyes: :afro:

them is good cardz... my friend Pappacass' network is being refreshed with a pair o $57 ECS Sock.A mobos, XP1600's, 2 of the same PS/case, DDR, etc etc... but we're setting one up with a ti200 (visiontek,oc's good) 64mb, and one with a 64mb ti4200... This guy just put his ti200 in a couple weeks ago and likes it a lot, but suffers at the mercy of a Duron 1k and a kt133a chipset... you see, he's taken the ride (courtesy of my mettling) from TNT (he thought Max Payne looked good on it) to GF2MX400 (the GTAIII perf. surprised him, as did Serious Sam) to GF2ti (got to experience the "torque" of ddr vid.ram) to GF4MX (enjoyed a tiny bit o AA at times @ 8x6) to GF3ti200 (doesn't feel too much quicker due to cpu, but the dx8 features show, and boy are they beautiful:D)...

what I'm saying by this is that MAYBE it might be a decent idea to think about a little more juice in that cpu... pappacass' duron/gf3 setup even feels quantum speeds ahead of friend and nv member goofjb's gf3ti200/Athlon 800 slotA (poopy mobo forces agp1x... yucky treatment for any vidcard)...

Just a question: is it within your budget to maybe:

Score a Celly 933 or a P3 933 (or something in that area...) for around $35 -$60

and

Get a Geforce 3 from a a trusted seller at a hardware forum for probably $55 shipped...

Id tend to think that one of those cpus (with maybe a little fsb trickery) coupled with the deal of a vidcard would make a heck of an upgrade. Just an idea. ;)

err... wait! wait! I know! Sell the P3 mobo/cpu for $70... Put that with the $110 or so you were gonna spend for the vidcard...

$170
-$60 total for ECS Sock. A sd/ddram mobo @ newegg
=110
-45 total for quality used XP1600@ a hardware forum
=75
-$75 what you could get a used ti500 for, and maybe if yer lucky, a ti4200 if someone's havin a good day:)

then use the P3 mobo's SDRAM for the time being, and go to ddr when $ allows...

:D

Spotch
01-21-03, 01:52 AM
I ran an 8500 64MB retail in a PIII 700 for a few months and it did a very good job. If you do buy an ATI go for the retail box. A fast video card: ~$100, A free replacement if it dies: priceless. :)

Just in case you didnt notice ATI has a 50 dollar trade up program for any old junk video card you have lying around the house. It makes the 9000Pro retail just 79 buckaroos.

Just so happens:

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030120/index.html

Its a pretty good overview of a bunch of cards on a 1Ghz machine. Not exactly slow but closer to what you are working with.

john19055
01-21-03, 02:39 AM
Out of the cards you have mention I would go with the G.F.3 TI200,It is DX8 compliant and it overclocks well and it runs games good right out of the box without haveing to tweak or figure out what drivers will run what game,like certain cards.

Steppy
01-21-03, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by john19055
Out of the cards you have mention I would go with the G.F.3 TI200,It is DX8 compliant and it overclocks well and it runs games good right out of the box without haveing to tweak or figure out what drivers will run what game,like certain cards. So will an 8500, which is as fast as a ti500.

Smokey
01-21-03, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Steppy
So will an 8500, which is as fast as a ti500.

From that link above at Toms Hardware, I fail to see the 8500 as fast as a GF3Ti500 :confused:

Spotch
01-21-03, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Smokey
From that link above at Toms Hardware, I fail to see the 8500 as fast as a GF3Ti500 :confused:

I am not sure what your preferences are but I set aniso to 8 on an 8500 and forget it. With that in mind the 8500 certainly is at least a match with the Ti500. Also the 8500 DX 8.1 capabilities ie PS1.4 so there may be a few games that can make use of that advantage.

McTurok
01-21-03, 09:34 AM
I need clarification on a few things guys.

Spotch
The 8500 you are talking; is that a 64 or 128 meg card?
Was it an LE version?

Right now I'm looking at a 8500 64 LE or the Geforce 3.

The 8500 is clocked higher, but it doesn't really look like
it makes much of a difference in Tom's benchmarks.

PreservedSwine
01-21-03, 10:03 AM
Screw the video card, you need a cpu upgrade.
CPU/MOBO/Heatsink combos can be found for *very* cheap, and he'd not only get faster frames with that type of upgrade, but overall system performance would skyrocket. I say again, he'd recieve more of a performace boost with a new cpu than a video card

McTurok
01-21-03, 10:22 AM
Screw the video card, you need a cpu upgrade.
CPU/MOBO/Heatsink combos can be found for *very* cheap, and he'd not only get faster frames with that type of upgrade, but overall system performance would skyrocket. I say again, he'd recieve more of a performace boost with a new cpu than a video card.

You fail to see the point that with a new upgrade that he would have to buy the following.

Mobo
CPU
RAM
PSU

Tell me what garbage I can get for $80 or $90? I'm not going
to have him buy crappy equipment cheap. So your suggestion is not going to happen!

McTurok
01-21-03, 11:18 AM
Order the Geforce3 64 for $79 with free shipping.

Thanks for all the input guys.

This card will work great and stay with this system for the rest
of it's life. This will probably be giving to my girl-friend in another
six months and she won't need anything that great.

Upgrading the whole thing isn't really worth it at this time.
Thanks again.

Megatron
01-21-03, 12:47 PM
The Radeon 9000 is the best thing on that list .

GF MX class is utter crap, and the Radeon 9000 will smack that GF3 around too. Plus you get higher DX support.

Spotch
01-21-03, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by McTurok
I need clarification on a few things guys.

Spotch
The 8500 you are talking; is that a 64 or 128 meg card?
Was it an LE version?

Right now I'm looking at a 8500 64 LE or the Geforce 3.

The 8500 is clocked higher, but it doesn't really look like
it makes much of a difference in Tom's benchmarks.

The card I was running was an original 8500 275/275 64MB Retail card.

Steppy
01-21-03, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Megatron
The Radeon 9000 is the best thing on that list .

GF MX class is utter crap, and the Radeon 9000 will smack that GF3 around too. Plus you get higher DX support. The 8500 is faster than the 9000. In most situations the 8500 is as fast or faster than the ti500...now pointing to one bench where it is not means nothing...you can find benches where an 8500 will outperform ti4600's in certain situations, that don't make it faster, because the ti4600 will be faster in 95% of situations.

Megatron
01-21-03, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Steppy
The 8500 is faster than the 9000.

Youre absolutely right Steppy. My mistake, I didnt see the 8500 in that list..my eyes must be going. :)

PreservedSwine
01-22-03, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by McTurok
You fail to see the point that with a new upgrade that he would have to buy the following.

Mobo
CPU
RAM
PSU

Tell me what garbage I can get for $80 or $90? I'm not going
to have him buy crappy equipment cheap. So your suggestion is not going to happen!

You sure about all that?? My 1.4 T-bird runs fine with my original PC133RAM, and PSU that came with my IBM PIII500.

Frankly, he just isn't going to see much of an improvement no matter the video card until he upgrades his MOBOand CPU, which he can do for ~$100. A 1.4 T-bird MOBO/CPU/FAN/Heatsink combo is around $100, and will give him *far* better performance than any of the video card options listed.

Chalnoth
01-22-03, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Megatron
GF MX class is utter crap, and the Radeon 9000 will smack that GF3 around too. Plus you get higher DX support.

I'm not sure the Radeon 9000 is any better than the GF3. It can be quite a bit slower than the Radeon 8500...and the 8500 doesn't even always been the GF3.

Smokey
01-22-03, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Steppy
The 8500 is faster than the 9000. In most situations the 8500 is as fast or faster than the ti500...now pointing to one bench where it is not means nothing...you can find benches where an 8500 will outperform ti4600's in certain situations, that don't make it faster, because the ti4600 will be faster in 95% of situations.

No offence, but I wouldnt want to people to get the wrong idea from what you said ;)

First the person who created this thread was asking which card to buy to go with a PIII 733, not a 2700+ Athlon. Now go look at those benchmarks at TH again and that you will see that the 8500 is beaten by the GF3 let alone the Ti500 in every benchmark when paired with an Athlon 1GHz, a bit closer to 733 than a 2700+ is! In this situation 8x aniso is a mute point, because with a cpu at 733, your not going to use more than 2X with either card, same goes for FSAA.

Spotch
01-22-03, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Smokey
No offence, but I wouldnt want to people to get the wrong idea from what you said ;)

First the person who created this thread was asking which card to buy to go with a PIII 733, not a 2700+ Athlon. Now go look at those benchmarks at TH again and that you will see that the 8500 is beaten by the GF3 let alone the Ti500 in every benchmark when paired with an Athlon 1GHz, a bit closer to 733 than a 2700+ is! In this situation 8x aniso is a mute point, because with a cpu at 733, your not going to use more than 2X with either card, same goes for FSAA.

2x Aniso max on the GF but on the 8500 you could easily use 4x or 8x.

Chalnoth
01-22-03, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Smokey
In this situation 8x aniso is a mute point, because with a cpu at 733, your not going to use more than 2X with either card, same goes for FSAA.

That's kind of a silly statement. Anisotropic is not CPU-dependent, so the user will have more of a reason to use 8x aniso as the framerate won't be that high without it.

McTurok
01-22-03, 10:51 PM
PreservedSwine,

Ok, I'm a little bit peaved at your replies. You think I'm going to waste $100 on some crappy upgrade for a mobo, ram, cpu and PSU. That might make you happy but not me.

Are you stupid enough to suggest to me to by a mobo that only supports PC133 SDRAM and not DDR?

That is the heart and guts of the PC boy! You don't skimp out when you do that type of an upgrade.

He'll see 2 to 3 times the performance with this Geforce3 card compared to his current card at the settings he plays with (fps).

Another reason why I went with this Geforce 3 is it performs better "overall" in the Games he will/is playing.

Next time please stick to MY TOPIC.

And I would like to thank everyone else who posted and help me out. Thanks, I really appreciate it.