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Zelda_fan
02-23-06, 12:15 AM
I decided to pick up the GBA version of Super Mario Bros 3. I haven't played the game in about 10 years, and I don't think I ever fully beat it. Well, it's a very fun game, but it's also HARD. Super Mario 3 is not a game that you simply "breeze through" in 20 hours. And it's not just a handicap difficulty like Doom3 on nightmare mode - the difficulty is a result of the level design. When you least expect it, a piranah flower will jump out of a pipe and bite you, or a flying turtle will come out of nowhere.

Is it just me, or is this kind of difficulty (difficulty from level design) practacially non-existant these days? I mean, Doom3, I probably died only twice in the whole game. I mean I could ramp it up to nightmare, but all that does is handicap you. I want so difficult games designed that way from the get go, not just some "slap on" extra handicap difficulty mode.

Buenamos
02-23-06, 01:04 AM
That's what multiplayer is for. Join a CAL league for COD 2 once they release PB. You'll definitely find no easiness there.

CaptNKILL
02-23-06, 01:08 AM
Gothic 2 is difficult in that way... and its completely irritating :p

I know what you mean, but I cant say I miss it. I never really got into Mario, in fact I despised "1 hit and youre dead" games when I was little (still do). Ive always preferred games that were challenging and required you to work to progress through difficult parts, not die 16 times trying to get it right and then end up having to start from the beginning (out of lives). I hate that crap. Especially when theres a lot of randomness or things you cant control.

I think the best thing thats happened to gameplay in the past 10 years was that we no longer have limited lives in most games.

I guess I can see where sometimes that old style difficulty is refreshing... but if I want to really get into a game and stick with it, naa. Its not for me.

EDIT: Buenamos has a point. Multiplayer games have that sort of difficulty if youre playing on the right servers. I know it isnt the same as a single player game, but still.

jAkUp
02-23-06, 01:16 AM
Well, remember with the NES games there was like no saving either, so when you died.. you had to start over :D

I beat all of the super mario games, but it aint easy. It takes alot of time and patience.

In those games, there was more of a sense of caution, now a days, you save your game, so you never really have to worry about losing much when you die.

I know alot of people hate it, but I can see why they do the point save systems in games like FarCry and PoP. It makes you actually care about dying more.

Riptide
02-23-06, 08:19 AM
FarCry was tough in spots. When you have to get through that hallway to fight Krieger (or whatever his name was) and all those guys rush you with body armor and shields... yeah right anyone gets through that on high difficulty without dieing a few times.

hordaktheman
02-23-06, 08:30 AM
It's just that design philosophies have changed. 10-15 years ago, you could finish the average game in an hour provided you were good enough. If you weren't, you had to restart the game from the beginning. Now we have games that take 10-20 hours to get through from start to finish.

Riptide
02-23-06, 08:35 AM
I don't know many people that could finish a Sierra game, solve all the puzzles, in a single hour. King's Quest 5 in an hour? I'm skeptical. Star Flight in a single hour? No way. Ultima in an hour?

Are you sure about that?

Tygerwoody
02-23-06, 08:43 AM
FarCry was tough in spots. When you have to get through that hallway to fight Krieger (or whatever his name was) and all those guys rush you with body armor and shields... yeah right anyone gets through that on high difficulty without dieing a few times.
Farcry was insanely tough, but not due to the makeup of the level. Just due to the fact all the mobs had Aimbot :o

Tygerwoody
02-23-06, 08:46 AM
It's just that design philosophies have changed. 10-15 years ago, you could finish the average game in an hour provided you were good enough. If you weren't, you had to restart the game from the beginning. Now we have games that take 10-20 hours to get through from start to finish.
lmao, if you are talking about those "1 hour runthrough" movies you see on the internet, give me a break. Thats not playing the game and I know damn well I couldn't do any of it. I know that each of the entire super mario brothers series was alot longer to play than games we play today....

Brimstone7
02-23-06, 08:52 AM
I think part of this issue is that games seem easier, and part is that games actually are easier. Looking back on the old NES days, I don't know if I finished a single game without a cheat code. But then again, I was only 8 years old or so. Most of us that remember the NES are in our 20's and 30's now and have been playing video games for decades. Some games are easier simply because we're just better. The whole "saving" thing helps, too.

Another factor might be that game developers have simply gotten better at balancing difficulties. Back on the NES there were tons of games that were almost impossible to beat unless you played them for hours everyday. This was OK back in the day but there are so many games out today, developers don't want to frustrate gamers to the point where they don't want to buy the product.

hordaktheman
02-23-06, 08:56 AM
Actually, I was referring to games like Ghouls n Ghosts, Contra, Streets of Rage, Axelay, and the hundreds of other shoot 'em ups, platformers and hack 'n slashers that made up the majority of games at the time. The vast majority of games back then didn't have any save-game functions, so they made up for it in difficulty. Once you were good enough they only took an hour to play through.

Tygerwoody
02-23-06, 09:06 AM
Actually, I was referring to games like Ghouls n Ghosts, Contra, Streets of Rage, Axelay, and the hundreds of other shoot 'em ups, platformers and hack 'n slashers that made up the majority of games at the time. The vast majority of games back then didn't have any save-game functions, so they made up for it in difficulty. Once you were good enough they only took an hour to play through.
hah... maybe... i dont' remember that far back. ;)

However I do remember Streets of Rage was one kick ass game. :D

Riptide
02-23-06, 09:10 AM
Anyone play Gauntlet or Rampage in the arcade? Good times.

lognoronon
02-23-06, 09:14 AM
Ghosts n Goblins and Ghouls n Ghosts remain my favorites series of side scrollers and those games are very very challenging. I still am tempted to grab a PSP just for the new Ghouls n Ghosts but I'm going to wait until I find out if it's actualy hard.

zoomy942
02-23-06, 09:15 AM
ah, rip... gauntlet was good times.:)

and i remember thief 3 being the last game i played that was difficult. but it was difficult for its thinking way or solving things. not in the annoying way, like that farcry part where you walk into that krieger place and everyone rushes you.. i am tired of overwhelnming odds being used to make things difficult.

rflair
02-23-06, 09:19 AM
Anyone play Gauntlet or Rampage in the arcade? Good times.


Remember when there were arcades and if someone was great at a game peoeple would just stand around and watch. I got just over 320,000 on Ms.Pacman once there must have been over a dozen people watching.

As for platform shooters, there were some great ones for console and PC, but niether system has seen a good platform shooter in years.

hordaktheman
02-23-06, 09:20 AM
Ghosts n Goblins and Ghouls n Ghosts remain my favorites series of side scrollers and those games are very very challenging. I still am tempted to grab a PSP just for the new Ghouls n Ghosts but I'm going to wait until I find out if it's actualy hard.Aye, that's the only reason I'm even considering getting a PSP. I'm just afraid that I don't have the reflexes I had when I was a kid and end up dying a lot. Still, I saw a trailer for it and it looks damn tempting.

Riptide
02-23-06, 09:55 AM
Remember when there were arcades and if someone was great at a game peoeple would just stand around and watch.Ah man... This sucks (getting old) doesn't it? :(

Those were some great times. We had a Bally's near where I lived in the bay area and although I really wasn't very good @ arcade games (never enough money) it was still fun to go throw some quarters in there and mess around. And yeah people that were good did attract quite a crowd.

Used to play Gauntlet and Rampage all the time at the arcade in the Bullwinkle's pizza parlor.

zoomy942
02-23-06, 10:13 AM
anyone remember that Xman arcade on the 2 screens? i still havent found anything that brings that kind of fun

Saintster
02-23-06, 10:41 AM
Anyone play Gauntlet or Rampage in the arcade? Good times.

Good stuff! Yeah I used to get pissed when the person you were playing against stole all the good stuff. It was light coop but then again still player vs player. Then again I remember when Robotron was the hot game in the arcades. I spent my fair share of paper route collections at the arcade playing pinball and Astroids. Ahh the good old days.

Saintster
02-23-06, 10:43 AM
Ah man... This sucks (getting old) doesn't it? :(

Those were some great times. We had a Bally's near where I lived in the bay area and although I really wasn't very good @ arcade games (never enough money) it was still fun to go throw some quarters in there and mess around. And yeah people that were good did attract quite a crowd.

Used to play Gauntlet and Rampage all the time at the arcade in the Bullwinkle's pizza parlor.

In hear ya Riptide I've been here from the beggining...Pong...Yeah the good people did attract a crowd especially when ther high score was in jeopardy!

Sazar
02-23-06, 10:52 AM
MOH had a coupla tough levels (namely the sniper levels).

But once you knew where teh scripted characters were, end of story.

Most games are easy, but thats why I am moving towards driving games :D

ynnek
02-23-06, 11:02 AM
Did you play Contra, ah, shatter soldier i think as the name on PS2?

Its short and sweet.. But when you first play, its incredibly tough.. untill you grind away hours and hours till you pratically can play it with your eyes shut.. then its easy.. The actual game wasn't long.. to be able to beat it without a cheatcode, took some time to learn. Just like the original Contra.

Knot3D
02-23-06, 11:19 AM
Metal Gear Solid 2 on European Extreme mode ?

H3avyM3tal
02-23-06, 01:12 PM
^lol, now that is tough ^^