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AliceCooper
03-09-06, 06:51 PM
I've been pondering this one for the last couple of weeks. Finally decided on the extra VRAM and bought the Gainward Bliss GLH 7800GT 512mb card.

This runs at stock 450 core and 1300 memory. It runs rock solid at 500/1400 which puts it firmly in stock 7900GT territory (same Samsung 1.3ns ram).

I just thought the extra VRAM gives me better headroom for future games as many commentators are now saying the next gen games will need at least 512mb VRAM.

I currently game at 1280x1024 as this is the native res of my LCD and it can scale down well to 1024 if needed. I run FEAR at 1280x1024 no probs but UT2007 might require drop in res.

Basically are the extra 4 pipes (never heard of a game that REQUIRES 24) better than the extra memory (aka Doom3 already.)?

Also, ATI seem to think more operations per cycle is better than more pipes? Sounds like Intel's Mhtz call against AMD in the good old days!!

SH64
03-09-06, 06:59 PM
If the game dosent take advantage of that extra VRAM then its no use ..
however the extra pipes are always useful since they help increasing your texture/pixel fillrate which most games benefit from.

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:06 PM
24pipes will always be used so long as the game is 3D as SH64 said it's fillrate, large amounts of RAM on the other hand may never be used in most games considering they conpress the textures. Still it's future proof to have 512MB. 512MB is really needed to be used if you use HDR + FSAA which the cards don't support anyway.

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:16 PM
Remember I said future games.

I accept that only a few current games support the extra VRAM but many future games are slated to make use of the 512mb VRAM.

Also, how comes the X1900XTX spanks the Nvidia cards with only 16 pipes?

Is it the physical pipes or the operations of the pipes that makes the diff?

I can't add extra 4 pipes or extra memory but if newer games want extra memory I can still play them wheeras with 4 less pipes it makes no diff.

SH64
03-09-06, 07:20 PM
Also, how comes the X1900XTX spanks the Nvidia cards with only 16 pipes?

Is it the physical pipes or the operations of the pipes that makes the diff?


ATi's X1900 has more shader processors per pipeline (3) , while the 7800/7900 has 2 shader processors per pipe .. so the end result is about the same .. i.e 48 shader processors for both.
of course not just the number of the physical pipelines is what determines performance in games , there are many other factors aswell but generally more pipelines is ALWAYS good.

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:25 PM
I must say the X1900XT peforem quite well even with the lack of bandwith it has.

Tygerwoody
03-09-06, 07:25 PM
Remember I said future games.

I accept that only a few current games support the extra VRAM but many future games are slated to make use of the 512mb VRAM.

Also, how comes the X1900XTX spanks the Nvidia cards with only 16 pipes?

Is it the physical pipes or the operations of the pipes that makes the diff?

I can't add extra 4 pipes or extra memory but if newer games want extra memory I can still play them wheeras with 4 less pipes it makes no diff.
ok Rage 3d troll.... Tell me.. how is that the X1900XTX "spanks" Nvidia cards? Show me ONE benchmark Nvidia is getting "spanked" in? 90% of the benchmarks Nvidia is winning. If Nvidia is losing on the rare occasion(FEAR for example) it is marginal.

Give up the stupid 16 pipeline crap. That is like a 4 cylinder Civic driver complaining he lost to a V8 mustang because the mustang has a bigger engine. A win is a win, a loss is a loss. I don't care if ATI has 2 pipelines and Nvida has 64. The facts still remain.

I'd rather be winning 90% of the time than winning 10% of the time, but maybe you enjoy owning an ATI card and being a troll? Who knows? (nana2)

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:26 PM
AFAIK Nvidia have a 1:1 ratio on all current cards not 2:1.

That's why I asked the question are more pipes better than more operations pre cycle!

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:30 PM
Oh come on get a life Tygerwoody!!

I'm not an ATI troll I just want a sensible debate. To that extent Nvidiots and Fanboys are not invited!

I asked a valid question so if you can't reply in a coherant manner..don't bother!!

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:31 PM
Yeah i belive it's 1:1 with Zback 2:1 aka 24 texture ALU's and 24 Pixel shader ALU's = 48.

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:34 PM
Hey Dazz bit of thread but r u coming to OT on Sunday?

1.30 kick off is crap, need more beer time!!!!!!!!!!

Tygerwoody
03-09-06, 07:35 PM
Oh come on get a life Tygerwoody!!

I'm not an ATI troll I just want a sensible debate. To that extent Nvidiots and Fanboys are not invited!

I asked a valid question so if you can't reply in a coherant manner..don't bother!!
What is your debate? You said something that was wrong, all I did was call you out on it because you are misleading the uninformed. 7900GTX beats 1900xtx in 90% of the benchmarks yet you make the remark that Nvidia is getting "spanked". Not only is that untrue, but it is rude because you are misleading people who are coming here and trying to decide what card they want to buy. ;)

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:35 PM
I havn't decided just yet but possibily

Tygerwoody
03-09-06, 07:38 PM
AFAIK Nvidia have a 1:1 ratio on all current cards not 2:1.

That's why I asked the question are more pipes better than more operations pre cycle!
More pipes "usually" means better, but there are SOO many variables that come into play. I mean look at the 6600GT? That card is SMOKIN fast for only having 8 pipelines AND a 128mb bus. On top of that it only has 128megs of ram. Its just a well designed card.

The only thing that can TRUELY tell you what card is better is benchmarks, the rest of it is just details.

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:38 PM
People make their minds up off reviews and may ask questions to people here if they are unable to make the choise themselves.

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:42 PM
Hey Dazz do u know y we hate Shearer so much?

He was the 1 signing we wanted that would have made us even greater.

Now he's only got 1 medal and David May's got 5 LOL!!!

At the end of your career u r only only as good as the medals u've won.

Who has the bragging rights, Andy Cole or Alan Shearer?

I know who is the better player!!

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:47 PM
Alen is the better player but hes getting old now but he is the better team player and a sore looser.

AliceCooper
03-09-06, 07:51 PM
What is your debate? You said something that was wrong, all I did was call you out on it because you are misleading the uninformed. 7900GTX beats 1900xtx in 90% of the benchmarks yet you make the remark that Nvidia is getting "spanked". Not only is that untrue, but it is rude because you are misleading people who are coming here and trying to decide what card they want to buy. ;)

Whether we disagree about the benchmarks or not the ATI card has 8 (2x4 I suppose) pipelines less and with AA & AF this seems to make them better performers.

So, is more VRAM more futureproof than more pipes????

It's 12.45 am in UK so I'm going to bed.

Good night,

agentkay
03-09-06, 07:53 PM
IŽd pick pipes over vram. If you want to keep the card for longer than a year, then IŽd pick +256mb vram.

Dazz
03-09-06, 07:54 PM
I know i should i have to up at 7 but i don't really feel tired at the moment. I wouldn't loose sleep over it lol. The 7800GT is still a very good peformer. Lets put it this way.... is it better then your last card?

hordaktheman
03-10-06, 08:06 AM
If you want to keep the card for longer than a year, then IŽd pick +256mb vram.
I agree with this. The slight speed differential will mean much less in the long term than the RAM size, something that has repeatedly proven itself to be true in this industry. That especially applies now that we are approaching the point where 512mb becomes standard on a video card.

The same thing happened when the GF4 Ti4200 cards were released. They were available in both 64mb and 128mb form, with the latter being slightly slower. Those were released at a time when 128mb was about to become the norm, and despite the speed disadvantage the 128mb cards outlasted the 64mb ones by over a year. I bought the 64mb one and was pretty damn miffed at having to run UT2003 at "medium" texture settings.

AliceCooper
03-10-06, 03:53 PM
Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated.

I do intend to keep this card for at least a year so I'm glad the extra VRAM is a good choice.

In response to Dazz, the card is better than my old vanilla GT. The extra speeds and memory are quite noticable in benchmarks and even in games like COD2 in heavy firefights it is smoother.

In DOOM3 it automatically sets to Ultra Quality and in the timedemo1 with 4xAA I get 69.5 fps average.

I could lower the resolution to High Quality and bench again but a part of me thinks why should I!!

Lastly, when 2nd hand prices drop on the 7900GTX in the next 12 months I can always buy one of those and with a new SLI mobo have an uber gaming rig for not too much money LOL!!

Blasphemer
03-10-06, 04:41 PM
Hey Dazz do u know y we hate Shearer so much?

He was the 1 signing we wanted that would have made us even greater.

Now he's only got 1 medal and David May's got 5 LOL!!!

At the end of your career u r only only as good as the medals u've won.

Who has the bragging rights, Andy Cole or Alan Shearer?

I know who is the better player!!

Oh dear another Man U supporter living on past victories. Hmmm carling Cup, not the champions league is it.
Strange how Man U doesnt even have Football Club in the badge so as not to confuse American "Supporters"

Anyway back to the thread pipes vs ram, i'd probably take pipes, can always use pipes, most games wont use the extra ram.

AliceCooper
03-10-06, 05:22 PM
Oh dear another Man U supporter living on past victories. Hmmm carling Cup, not the champions league is it.
Strange how Man U doesnt even have Football Club in the badge so as not to confuse American "Supporters"

Quite agree, the Carling Cup was not what we wanted but I was there & it was a good result.

Dropping the Football Club was a PLC thing and it really piss** us off at the time.

BTW I am a season ticket holder and been going to OT and away for last 32 years!! I am not a glory hunter. I've still seen more losing seasons than winning ones but that's life.

As a 13 yr old I was there at the Derby when Denis Law scored so I've been thru thick & thin.

U might change ur wife but u will never change ur football team.

Red till dead & proud of it.

Dazz
03-10-06, 05:25 PM
Oh speaking of Doom 3 where did i put Quake 4, that X800XL struggled abit with 1680x1050 rez @ ultra settings it should be alot better on my 7800GTX now.

God i know the feeling when we loose and people rub it in, not my side you want to be on.