View Full Version : Nvidia fooled them all!
AliceCooper
03-09-06, 08:06 PM
Nearly every forum in the last few weeks have been predicting the 7900GTX as as a 32 pipe card. All wrong LOL!!
Is this just the start of the phoney war until NVidia unleash the G80 or do ATI have something in their theory that more pipelines are not better than more operations per cycle?
Remember Intel aggressively marketing higher clock speeds when AMD's lower speeds were actually better?
Bring it on!!!!
If you read my posts , i did predict the 7900GTX to be either 24 pipes with high clocks or 32 with low clocks .. so i was right 50% of the time at least! :D
If you read my posts , i did predict the 7900GTX to be either 24 pipes with high clocks or 32 with low clocks .. so i was right 50% of the time at least! :D
You work for teh inq don't you :cool:
You work for teh inq don't you :cool:
:D :o
AthlonXP1800
03-09-06, 08:39 PM
:lol: Yeah Nvidia also fooled ATI made them think Nvidia were planned 32 pipelines and huge chips. When the truth came out, it was no 32 pipelines but it was tiny chips, they make 2 times as many chips on per wafer. Today was a very bad day for ATI as their stocks plummet all the times down below $15. Geforce 7900 GT & GTX are now cost mostly less than ATI cutted X1900 XT & XTX prices, they dont know how to response it while make huge losses. If ATI decided to take huge risk to have another big price cuts on all products then they will be gone out of business.
I just find it hilarious that nvidia released a refresh of a refresh. 7800 was nothing more than a refresh for the 6800 ultra, the 7900 is nothing more than a refresh for the 7800 series. Talk about progressing slowly lately. Good but not good, yknow?
I just find it hilarious that nvidia released a refresh of a refresh. 7800 was nothing more than a refresh for the 6800 ultra, the 7900 is nothing more than a refresh for the 7800 series. Talk about progressing slowly lately. Good but not good, yknow?
Well, that's what you can do when you build a very scalable architecture. Just look at ATI with the 9700 series. How many generations did that last them?
Yeah, but I meant more power/features-wise.
Like fx g5 series introduced ps2.0, then we got the 5950 that stuck with most of the same features, just upped the clocks and sold for twice as much and made it the new card to have, and something "inbetween" to hold over gamers until the next big thing.
Ati did this with 9800 Pro and then 9800 XT
Then The 6x00 series came out and ps3.0 was introduced, more pipelines, etc. It was the next big thing, so we assumed a refresh was next.
Ati unfortunatley didnt have the ps3.0 features but their next big thing was the x800 which did have more pipes than the r400/r480..
The we got the 7800/x1800 refresh
now we get a second refresh with the 7900/x1900xtx
Just saying its a bit odd, a refresh of a refresh. And it doesnt seem to be pulling very far ahead from the 512mb 7800 gtx, maybe I need to read more reviews, but I would think most 7800 512mb gtx owners could gain most of the 7900's speed through a decent oc? ( Too bad I own a 256mb version heh...ah better than a ti 500 yknow?)
EDIT: Ok nevermind, read a FULL review and yeah, 7900 gtx is nice and fast...
agentkay
03-09-06, 09:42 PM
There is a major financial reason behind this refresh on the NV side. They will get more dies per waffer which equals better profits. I was hoping for a 32p card, but the jump would have been too huge for just a refresh.
I was hoping for a 32p card, but the jump would have been too huge for just a refresh.
A second refresh... ;)
nVidia got their money's worth from the R&D group. DirectX hasn't changed significantly over the same time period, either.
ATi introduced major architectural changes in the middle of the DX9 cycle. If those changes can be leveraged in DX10, they may have a leg up on nVidia next round. If the R6XX architecture is significantly different than R5XX, then ATi will have gone through three (or four) major R&D investments to nVidia's two.
nVidia definitely has the upper hand this round when it comes to price control. I hope they put the money to good use :D
AliceCooper
03-10-06, 05:05 PM
TBH the X1900 was more than a refresh it was a big arcitechtural change from the X1800 going from 16 Pixel ops to 48 and other improvements. Just too bad it pi**ed off all X1800 owners when their cards were replaced in less than 3 months.
I do agree though that the 7900 range is just a refresh. To be fair this is Nvidia's first 90nm part so it is easy to play safe and refresh than bring out a brand new part.
I think they are waiting for the G80 to spring the next big leap in graphics power but at the same time ATI have the R600 (supposedly with XBox 360 technologies aka unified shaders up their sleeve) which could be a great card.
I think we will be entering a new graphics phoney war over the next 6-12 months until Vista and DX10 is bedded in. TBH why release another "new" DX9 part in the meantime!
Just my pennies worth.:D
Treason
03-10-06, 05:11 PM
:lol: Yeah Nvidia also fooled ATI made them think Nvidia were planned 32 pipelines and huge chips. When the truth came out, it was no 32 pipelines but it was tiny chips, they make 2 times as many chips on per wafer. Today was a very bad day for ATI as their stocks plummet all the times down below $15. Geforce 7900 GT & GTX are now cost mostly less than ATI cutted X1900 XT & XTX prices, they dont know how to response it while make huge losses. If ATI decided to take huge risk to have another big price cuts on all products then they will be gone out of business.
You predicted ATi would be out of business four months after the X1800 was paper-launched. ATi stock was way below $15 at that time too. What makes you think this time your prediction of ATi bankruptcy will come to fruition?
FraGTastiK
03-10-06, 05:23 PM
Considering add in cards, simply put and imho since the release of 7800s and now with 90nm parts nVIDIA is a much more successful company compared to ATi in terms of how many cards they sold, how fast they did it and how much did it cost them to produce those cards.
This is obvious to me and I dont think you need to be a financial expert to see it too, they were/are a better business.
:lol: Yeah Nvidia also fooled ATI made them think Nvidia were planned 32 pipelines and huge chips. When the truth came out, it was no 32 pipelines but it was tiny chips, they make 2 times as many chips on per wafer. Today was a very bad day for ATI as their stocks plummet all the times down below $15. Geforce 7900 GT & GTX are now cost mostly less than ATI cutted X1900 XT & XTX prices, they dont know how to response it while make huge losses. If ATI decided to take huge risk to have another big price cuts on all products then they will be gone out of business.
Holy hell dude, you can twist any situation to fit the little story in your head can't you? You should seriously look into a career in espionage...
agentkay
03-10-06, 06:22 PM
Holy hell dude, you can twist any situation to fit the little story in your head can't you? You should seriously look into a career in espionage...
He has a point though that ATI needs to sell more units than NV to make equal profit when it comes to the 1900/7900. Thats the advantage when you have less complicated and in general more dies per waffer.
NoWayDude
03-10-06, 07:08 PM
ATI is doing fine on the discrete market and on portable (laptop), plus a good dea w/ Xbox, and on the mobile market
So the age old talk about either ATI/Nvidia going out of business is tosh
(look at Nvidia on the NV30 days)
Business wise, yes Nvidia was more astute.No point in releasing a new arquitecture when the one you have just now is doing fine, and you can equal your competitor in speed and better them in price
ATI had to release X1800 series (they where late to the show) and of course now X1900 is out, until R600
Remenber folks, joe public in there does not care about AA and AF or 1600x1200.They just want to frag ppl at 500 fps at the time.Does not matter if for that they play at 800x600
He has a point though that ATI needs to sell more units than NV to make equal profit when it comes to the 1900/7900. Thats the advantage when you have less complicated and in general more dies per waffer.
He hasnt got a point. He says if Ati decide to do another pricecut they will go out of business. He doesnt seem to realise that competition is good.
agentkay
03-10-06, 07:42 PM
He hasnt got a point. He says if Ati decide to do another pricecut they will go out of business. He doesnt seem to realise that competition is good.
That would only happen if they didnīt have any other products but the X1900 line, which obviously is not the case.
Cptobvious
03-10-06, 09:05 PM
:lol: Yeah Nvidia also fooled ATI made them think Nvidia were planned 32 pipelines and huge chips. When the truth came out, it was no 32 pipelines but it was tiny chips, they make 2 times as many chips on per wafer. Today was a very bad day for ATI as their stocks plummet all the times down below $15. Geforce 7900 GT & GTX are now cost mostly less than ATI cutted X1900 XT & XTX prices, they dont know how to response it while make huge losses. If ATI decided to take huge risk to have another big price cuts on all products then they will be gone out of business.
um I think you got some serious problems...
Anyway I never predicted Nvidia to have a 32pipe 750mhz card like the rumors said...it just seemed impossible to pull off
agentkay
03-10-06, 09:50 PM
Anyway I never predicted Nvidia to have a 32pipe 750mhz card like the rumors said...it just seemed impossible to pull off
32p are NOT impossible if you look at the amount of transistors and die size of the 24piped G71, 750mhz however are at this time. 500-600mhz should be possible though. This is all theoretical of course.
Cptobvious
03-11-06, 03:50 AM
32p are NOT impossible if you look at the amount of transistors and die size of the 24piped G71, 750mhz however are at this time. 500-600mhz should be possible though. This is all theoretical of course.
kinda what I said, I never said 32pipe is impossible...32pipe 750mhz is at the time tho.
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