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Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 02:33 PM
For some reason i think Oblivion will be THE GAME to utilize most of the 512 ram on GTX and x1900/x1800 cards. FEAR already uses over 400mb of video ram. I have a feeling this game will be VERY video ram intensive. *hugs his 7900GTX*

J-Mag
03-16-06, 02:44 PM
agreed, I can totally see the use of 512mb cards with oblivion especially when running higher reo****ions.

CaptNKILL
03-16-06, 02:48 PM
Eh, Im not sure. It probably will, but its hard to say. The X360 version cant possibly need that much video memory, and I dont see them bloating the texture memory requirements for no reason on the PC. I guess they could though, so who knows.

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 02:56 PM
Eh, Im not sure. It probably will, but its hard to say. The X360 version cant possibly need that much video memory, and I dont see them bloating the texture memory requirements for no reason on the PC. I guess they could though, so who knows.
Well.... Xbox doesn't need that much texture memory because their resolution is limited. On the other hand us PC users who have monitors that scale up to high resolution will probably get higher res textures.

Really the resolution of an Xbox is just 1024x768 with more viewing area. Same goes to a PC with 1920x1200. Its just 1600x1200 with more viewing area. 1024x768 shouldn't take up that much space for textures. On the other hand 1600x1200 will. So if certain texture sizes are say 1920x1920, the Xbox360 will only see half of that. Thus half the space.

CaptNKILL
03-16-06, 03:00 PM
Well.... Xbox doesn't need that much texture memory because their resolution is limited. On the other hand us PC users who have monitors that scale up to high resolution will probably get higher res textures.
I dont know. Like the developers have said, the graphics are supposed to be identical. Id say that means identical textures, but maybe not.

I hope the PC version DOES get higher res textures, but I think they will probably be the same. I dont think display resolution will have too much effect on the size of textures used\needed. Whether youre running at 800x600 or 1600x1200, sharper textures will still look sharper up close.

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 03:06 PM
I dont know. Like the developers have said, the graphics are supposed to be identical. Id say that means identical textures, but maybe not.

I hope the PC version DOES get higher res textures, but I think they will probably be the same. I dont think display resolution will have too much effect on the size of textures used\needed. Whether youre running at 800x600 or 1600x1200, sharper textures will still look sharper up close.
No.... actually they wont. It all depends on the size of the texture itself. The higher resolution you are running, the higher resolution the texture itself is(until they hit their max of course). Most games today use large texture sizes. I seriously doubt Oblivion will limit itself to smaller texture sizes. If you take a high res PC screenshot and just scale it down some, the loss of quality is there even if it is minimal. It would be stupid for the Xbox to have the higher res textures in memory when they don't need them, thats why they are different. ;)

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 03:16 PM
to explain this better. Say you have a texture and it is 768x768. Whether you have your PC at 1024x768 or 1920x1440, that texture will not increase in quality, it will just get bigger(this also depends on what size object you are putting it on too. I'm just being very general here). However if the texture is originally something like 2048x2048, then if you up the res from 1024x768 to 1920x1440 the actual QUALITY of the texture increases due to the lower resolution only using a shrunken down version of the texture to begin with. Make sense?

CaptNKILL
03-16-06, 03:18 PM
Heh, I know I was exagerating a bit. 800x600 is poo. :p

I just dont think we'll be seeing many gigantic textures in this game. With all of the parallax maps and specular maps, I dont know if they can afford it.

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 03:24 PM
Heh, I know I was exagerating a bit. 800x600 is poo. :p

I just dont think we'll be seeing many gigantic textures in this game. With all of the parallax maps and specular maps, I dont know if they can afford it.
Why not? If your PC is only running at 1280x1024 or below then you arent using the big textures anyway. You are using shrunken down versions of it. Why do you think increasing resolution takes such a BIG hit in games. Its due to the textures sizes too.(and in all honesty, texture sizes don't really make you have a big hit if you have enough ram)


An example would be Kingpin. I use to make skins for Kingpin. An entire character skin on kingpin was something like 300x400. Thats the entire body, head, arms, legs,etc. An entire skin of a character on FEAR is probably 10 times that. FEAR uses different portions for textures. I'm willing to bet just the bottom of a boot of a person in FEAR has more texture resolution than an entire character on KINGPIN

CaptNKILL
03-16-06, 03:31 PM
Why not? If your PC is only running at 1280x1024 or below then you arent using the big textures anyway. You are using shrunken down versions of it. Why do you think increasing resolution takes such a BIG hit in games. Its due to the textures sizes too.(and in all honesty, texture sizes don't really make you have a big hit if you have enough ram)


An example would be Kingpin. I use to make skins for Kingpin. An entire character skin on kingpin was something like 300x400. Thats the entire body, head, arms, legs,etc. An entire skin of a character on FEAR is probably 10 times that. FEAR uses different portions for textures. I'm willing to bet just the bottom of a boot of a person in FEAR has more texture resolution than an entire character on KINGPIN
Heh, ok. Youre right.

I remember making textures for Quake 2. I think those were 256x256 8bit color .pcx files. Most of it was empty space though, and the half was the stuff that was wrapped around the back that you couldnt see. That game had the blurriest textures I have ever seen :p

SH64
03-16-06, 03:39 PM
Hard to tell until i experiance the game myself.
though i believe 512MB VRAM wont make a difference , but more system RAM would help indeed .. like 2GB.

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 03:55 PM
Hard to tell until i experiance the game myself.
though i believe 512MB VRAM wont make a difference , but more system RAM would help indeed .. like 2GB.
Well... see with textures you want most of the texture in your ram. If you are running high resolution, that texture size will be big. If you have most all the textures in your video ram instead of your system ram then you are looking at a MUCH better experience running the game. Your frames per second might not increase, but your system will run smoother. Instead of your system slowing down for a half of a second when a new mob shows up on the screen, your PC will be uninterupted. I mean just think about the difference in 512mb ram and 1gb ram in WINDOWS. The difference is tremendous in how "smooth" everything runs.

Again, unless you run games at a HIGH resolution won't you notice the difference.

J-Mag
03-16-06, 04:06 PM
With previous generation games making their mark into the 512mb frame buffer at decent resolutions, one can assume that this will be the case here. Especially since most of these games tend to be in corridors and hallways, not out in the open. It's not like oblivion is progressing backwards...

SH64
03-16-06, 04:07 PM
Well... see with textures you want most of the texture in your ram. If you are running high resolution, that texture size will be big. If you have most all the textures in your video ram instead of your system ram then you are looking at a MUCH better experience running the game. Your frames per second might not increase, but your system will run smoother. Instead of your system slowing down for a half of a second when a new mob shows up on the screen, your PC will be uninterupted. I mean just think about the difference in 512mb ram and 1gb ram in WINDOWS. The difference is tremendous in how "smooth" everything runs.

Again, unless you run games at a HIGH resolution won't you notice the difference.
Well as i experianced with FEAR which has alot of high-res textures .. the extra VRAM didnt do anything. i was having stuttering in either of these cases : 1) 256MB VRAM [7800GTX SLI] card(s) + 1GB system RAM , 2) 512MB VRAM [X1800XTX] card + 1GB system RAM.
the stuttering went away only when i added an extra 1GB of system RAM.
& yes i was playing @1600x1200,2xAA,8xAF.

J-Mag
03-16-06, 04:10 PM
Well as i experianced with FEAR which has alot of high-res textures .. the extra VRAM didnt do anything. i was having stuttering in either of these cases : 1) 256MB (7800GTX SLI) card(s) + 1GB RAM , 2) 512MB (X1800XTX) card + 1GB RAM.
the stuttering went away only when i added an extra 1GB of system RAM.
& yes i was playing @1600x1200,2xAA,8xAF.

thats like an apples to dingleberries comparison...

Also I hope you didn't use the ingame demo testing...

agentkay
03-16-06, 04:12 PM
Well as i experianced with FEAR which has alot of high-res textures .. the extra VRAM didnt do anything. i was having stuttering in either of these cases : 1) 256MB (7800GTX SLI) card(s) + 1GB RAM , 2) 512MB (X1800XTX) card + 1GB RAM.
the stuttering went away only when i added an extra 1GB of system RAM.
& yes i was playing @1600x1200,2xAA,8xAF.

Which shows that if a game isnīt programmed to use the 512MB vram, it wonīt use them, but rather look for system ram. A game like Quake 4 in the highest settings does actually NEED the 512MB vram though or at least its programmed to use up "all" vram first before looking for system ram.

SH64
03-16-06, 04:14 PM
thats like an apples to dingleberries comparison...
I'm not comparing Oblivion to FEAR .. i'm just saying this in response to tyger's comment & his use of FEAR as an exmaple in the first post.

my answer for the thread question still remains : hard to tell , until we try the game.

J-Mag
03-16-06, 04:19 PM
Well either way I WANT oblivion to bleed over the 256mb frame buffer at 1600x1200 or greater. Otherwise it would seem like developers are lagging behind the hardware manufacturers.

SH64
03-16-06, 04:23 PM
Well either way I WANT oblivion to bleed over the 256mb frame buffer at 1600x1200 or greater. Otherwise it would seem like developers are lagging behind the hardware manufacturers.
I'd like to see that too .. that'll make me feel much better for getting a 512MB 7900GTX card :D

Tygerwoody
03-16-06, 04:29 PM
I'd like to see that too .. that'll make me feel much better for getting a 512MB 7900GTX card :D
lmao... you have so many freaking PC's :p

Treason
03-17-06, 05:36 AM
Oblivion is a TWIMTBP game right? So I fully expect it to utilize all of the 7900GTX's capabilities, including the 512 mb vram.

Tygerwoody
03-17-06, 06:26 AM
Oblivion is a TWIMTBP game right? So I fully expect it to utilize all of the 7900GTX's capabilities, including the 512 mb vram.
If history teaches us correctly, the only thing TWIMTBP will mean is that ATI hardware will probably run the game better :p

killahsin
03-17-06, 06:33 AM
For some reason i think Oblivion will be THE GAME to utilize most of the 512 ram on GTX and x1900/x1800 cards. FEAR already uses over 400mb of video ram. I have a feeling this game will be VERY video ram intensive. *hugs his 7900GTX*

I think at high resolutions it will make a difference mainly. At more normal 1600 and below resolutions not so much so. unless the game doesn't use texture compression at the highest settings.

Greg
03-17-06, 08:10 AM
I dont know. Like the developers have said, the graphics are supposed to be identical. Id say that means identical textures, but maybe not.

I hope the PC version DOES get higher res textures, but I think they will probably be the same. I dont think display resolution will have too much effect on the size of textures used\needed. Whether youre running at 800x600 or 1600x1200, sharper textures will still look sharper up close.

No.... actually they wont. It all depends on the size of the texture itself. The higher resolution you are running, the higher resolution the texture itself is(until they hit their max of course). Most games today use large texture sizes. I seriously doubt Oblivion will limit itself to smaller texture sizes. If you take a high res PC screenshot and just scale it down some, the loss of quality is there even if it is minimal. It would be stupid for the Xbox to have the higher res textures in memory when they don't need them, thats why they are different. ;)

The higher resolutions will make relatively lower resolution textures look sharper for another reason... The selection of mip maps relates directly to the pixel to texel ratio, so at high resolution, more of the larger mips are sampled. A 512x512 ground oriented texture viewed at 1024x768 will only use the top (512x512) mip for about 1 inch at the bottom of the screen. The same texture viewed at 1600x1200 will now be used further into the screen for significant improvment in quality.

Since most games to not use textures > 512x512, it stands to reason that a screen size of 800x600 is all you need to see textures at full size. Not so of course, you would have to be looking directly at a wall oriented texture from a very close distance. See for yourself. Load up a game, take a screen shot at 800x600 and at the highest res possible, without changing game settings and you will see what I am saying is true.

Tygerwoody
03-17-06, 08:33 AM
The higher resolutions will make relatively lower resolution textures look sharper for another reason... The selection of mip maps relates directly to the pixel to texel ratio, so at high resolution, more of the larger mips are sampled. A 512x512 ground oriented texture viewed at 1024x768 will only use the top (512x512) mip for about 1 inch at the bottom of the screen. The same texture viewed at 1600x1200 will now be used further into the screen for significant improvment in quality.

Since most games to not use textures > 512x512, it stands to reason that a screen size of 800x600 is all you need to see textures at full size. Not so of course, you would have to be looking directly at a wall oriented texture from a very close distance. See for yourself. Load up a game, take a screen shot at 800x600 and at the highest res possible, without changing game settings and you will see what I am saying is true.
I'm not grasping what you are trying to say... but ok :thumbsup: