G71/R580 Refreshes

[FraGTastiK]

Now that Vista's been delayed what do you guys think about a refresh? You think there is still some untouched potential left in R580/G71 that nV and ATi are going to ooze'm out with a refresh? Being it a speed bump or core design improvements? or do you think they will just sit on G71/R580 and work on their DX10 parts until Vista hits.

Any insider bits of information are welcome. :D

In my opinion, I think this is as good as they can get with R580/G71.

[Subtestube]

Just hazarding a guess here, but I'd suggest that it makes sense for both ATi and nVidia to launch they DX10 generation parts either on or slightly after schedule regardless of when Vista launches, provided the DX 10 spec is finalised. The only reason for them to hold off is compliance, and considering that they'll have to have final cards well in advance of the actual Vista launch if they want to be able to produce cards for that launch (and you can bank on them wanting that - neither side will want a DX10 game to come out and for them to be left in the "Well, we'd tell you what the others can do, but they don't have a part out!" part of the reviews...). I don't honestly think it'll hurt them to have DX 10.0 compatible cards out in advance of the supporting OS, so I doubt either of them will hold off.

[agentkay]

I don´t think there will be a high-end DX9 refresh anymore. Just because Vista was pushed back, doesn´t mean that they can´t release the DX10 cards 3-5 months before Vista. DX10 cards have to be decent performers in DX9 as well so its not like they will be useless until Vista hits the market.

Another thing that speaks for DX10 card launch in Q3-Q4 are the potentionally higher sales compared to just ANOTHER DX9 card launch. There are a lot of people waiting for DX10 cards than just another DX9 card refresh. I do admit though, a nice little 7900GT would make the wait much more enjoyable than my dusty 6800nu.

[FraGTastiK]

Yes quite logical, no new DX9 high-end part till Vista.

I guess highly overclocked cards are going to act like a psuedo-refresh before Vista.

Gainward 7900GTXGLH and EVGA Signature7900GTX cards are yet to come.We already know that some of the Gainward's GLH cards come with a new PCB/cooler design. (in limited numbers though) Like that 7800GT512MBGLH card.I've read somewhere that they are gonna have a 7900GT512MB GLH too.

[Siskods9]

Apparently ATi will release a R580+/R581 part (before Vista) based on the new 80nm manufacturing process, with lower heat / higher clocks etc.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30623

[AthlonXP1800]

Apparently ATi will release a R580+/R581 part (before Vista) based on the new 80nm manufacturing process, with lower heat / higher clocks etc.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30623

I am not surprised with ATI decision to launch 80nm R580+/R581 around July/August and delayed R600 until Vista shipping. I think ATI made the worst decision, they probably not aware of Nvidia G80 (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30624) is due to tape out any time now after missed tape out a few weeks ago and G80 are on schedule to launch in Sept/Oct.

[FraGTastiK]

Apparently ATi will release a R580+/R581 part (before Vista) based on the new 80nm manufacturing process, with lower heat / higher clocks etc.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30623


Thanks for the link.

hmmm if ATi does put out a dieshrinked R580 w/higher clocks on the market dont you think nVIDIA might want to counter that with something? I guess if nV manages to have G80s available to her AiBs for about a month or so after R580+'s possible debut nVIDIA will probably go that route or else they need to have something else other than G80 up against R580+ imo.

EDIT:There's also this chance of nVIDIA not bothering with countering the rumored pre-Vista R580+ like how they acted with their 6800Ultra, no new refreshes were made to compete against ATi's X800 refresh, X850XTPE.

[FraGTastiK]

What PeterJensen posted might actually mean that G80 is going to be introduced much sooner than expected! In all situations it will just put more pressure on ATi if nVIDIA pulls off an early G80 debut.

Like agentkay said its not that much unexpected to see DX10 parts running DX9 games faster than current DX9 cards.So why not ship G80 months before Vista release. (nana2) (nana2)

[Sazar]

I am not surprised with ATI decision to launch 80nm R580+/R581 around July/August and delayed R600 until Vista shipping. I think ATI made the worst decision, they probably not aware of Nvidia G80 (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30624) is due to tape out any time now after missed tape out a few weeks ago and G80 are on schedule to launch in Sept/Oct.

If we had a dollar for everytime you made a foot in your mouth "prediction" we would all be filthy rich.

[Mr_LoL]

I am pretty sure there were some rumours of the g80 launching in April or May. I wonder what happened to those.

[Marvel_us]

I doubt nV will do a refresh before G80. According to that inquirer article ATI most likely. I'd rather have G80 come out when DirectX 10 is available, that's just me though. Hopefully the 7900's can play UT07.:)

[Son Goku]

Might depend on how much Vista slips. If it stays on schedule for an early 2007 launch there could be sense in just focusing efforts on a DX 10 card, to coincide with the launch of Vista, or to follow sometime after...

However, if Microsoft announces another delay, followed by another, and it slips into 2008 this might not hold. That said, one slippage doesn't in and of itself mean that many more will follow, so as of this moment see no reason that Vista couldn't launch early next year...

[Riptide]

Couldn't they just release it before Vista? Maybe make it so that it works fine w/DX9 but is "DX10 ready"?

[Sazar]

Couldn't they just release it before Vista? Maybe make it so that it works fine w/DX9 but is "DX10 ready"?

Not really worth it if m$ keeps changing stuff around.

Hardware needs a little time to be completed with capabilities. I am not sure if m$ has made their final decisions yet.

[Son Goku]

Saz hinted at it, but early in the development process, features aren't locked down. For instance when we moved from beta 1 to beta 2 of Windows XP, there were a hell of a lot of features added, which really did make it look like a bit of a different OS.

At a certain point, MS will announce that the beta is "feature complete" which means that from that point forward, only bug fixes and performance optimizations are expected to be added to the OS, not new features. Until the feature set is locked down, who knows what we'll get in the finished product...

Hardware development also takes time. So from the time the feature set is locked down, there would still be a bit of a development curve in getting it from design on paper, into an actual fabricated product, which then has to be tested, perhaps corrected any faults corrected and sent back to fab, etc before they're ready to release a finished product. If Vista is releasing say January of next year; I really don't expect a DX 10 part to be announced for say an October release...

That said, if Vista does drag on a long time (though I mean more like what happened with Windows 95, and no I'm not really expecting this to be the case now), manufacturers could begin releasing parts that include some features they proposed to be added to the DX 10 spec, to try to generate some sales; but there is no given that the API will support those. They could end up being restricted to OGL, and their own OGL driver only, should they do that...

[AthlonXP1800]

If we had a dollar for everytime you made a foot in your mouth "prediction" we would all be filthy rich.

:lol: You all will be rich in a day or two when Nvidia will became $10bn company once stock hit $57.31, they reached all time high at $57.28 today. But all of you will be filthy rich by end of April or May when Nvidia will have about 360 millions shares after the stock spilt, that will make Nvidia a $20bn company. Stocks analysts predicted Nvidia stock target of $75 by end of 2006, if they hit $75 they will be worth $27bn. I think that will make ATI feel more insecured. :)

[Red_Shift]

Remember that nvidia conference call notes not too long ago posted by uttar? G71 will also move to 80nm. It'll probably have a greater OC capacity but it'll be too close to next-gens' launch so not a viable option for most of us.

[Telomerase]

i think athlonxp1800 forgot that ATI has the sales of TWO, count them, TWO gaming consoles this time. Nintendo Revolution AND Xbox 360.

[AthlonXP1800]

i think athlonxp1800 forgot that ATI has the sales of TWO, count them, TWO gaming consoles this time. Nintendo Revolution AND Xbox 360.

Nope I didnt forget that one. We have to wait and see how much ATI made from Xbox 360 royalty, it probably wont be alots of money and Nvidia also get small Xbox 360 royalty based on each Xbox game running on Xbox 360 by download software patch. :)

[Lfctony]

:lol: You all will be rich in a day or two when Nvidia will became $10bn company once stock hit $57.31, they reached all time high at $57.28 today. But all of you will be filthy rich by end of April or May when Nvidia will have about 360 millions shares after the stock spilt, that will make Nvidia a $20bn company. Stocks analysts predicted Nvidia stock target of $75 by end of 2006, if they hit $75 they will be worth $27bn. I think that will make ATI feel more insecured. :)

Blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda...

[FraGTastiK]

INQ says R580+ late summer with GDDR4 . (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30649)

I just noticed that the first option in the poll is colored red. :rolleyes:

[walterman]

For me, it's clear that a card is as fast as the memory chips that it uses.

When i buy a top model card like a 7900GTX (atm), i expect to play in the highest resolutions with FSAA/AF all the time, & it needs a lot of memory bw.

You always can use some tweaks on the memory controller, but, they aren't enough for me.

There're some old news about GDDR4 chips from Samsung (2.5 - 3.2 GHz) (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20060214062714.html)

2.5GHz x 256bit = 80 GB/s
3.2GHz x 256bit = 102 GB/s

We've 56GB/s cards atm (XFX 7900GTX XT, for example).

There should be at least a 50% performance improvement by using those 2.5GHz chips. (80% for the 3.2 GHz version).

What about a 512bit bus ? Well, i think that another very expensive part of a 3d card is the PCB. They're using like 8-9 layers atm for a 256bit bus. It will really rock ! But, i doubt it. Think that the PCB is even more expensive than the memory chips sometimes. Think about it. Why should nvidia sell those 7600GT with 1400MHz chips on a 128bit bus ? The key must be on the PCB.

[tieros]

The announcement of the 580+ on 80nm, and the "leak" of the G80 tapeout "miss", and the GDDR4 announcement all mysteriously appear the day before ATi announces their financial results. Go figure. And it still doesn't help their stock :)

I can't believe NVDA hit 57 bucks today :banghead:
I bought it at 9.65 and sold it off between 25 and 35 bucks 'cause I needed to use the cash for some house crap. Damn damn damn damn damn!

Anyone here have a time travel machine I could borrow? I'll bring it back yesterday :D


ATi would benefit more from a refresh than nVidia. A smaller, cooler, potentially faster line of ATi GPUs would give them some pricing weapons to fight back with. Right now they are getting their butts handed to them in the profit department :)

[AthlonXP1800]

I can't believe NVDA hit 57 bucks today :banghead:
I bought it at 9.65 and sold it off between 25 and 35 bucks 'cause I needed to use the cash for some house crap. Damn damn damn damn damn!

:lol: If you hold your shares until close time today and you all will be rich. :)

Nvidia today hit $10bn milestone. :D

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/808/nvidia2vi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Lfctony]

Worst... fanboy... EVER...