NV35 - where are you?

[borntosoul]

nv 35 where are you ? cause the nv30 is not doing too well at all vs the 9700 ! im very disapointed with this card ,ati has better aa and af at same settings and is faster in most high res, aa and af games .

[Uttar]

The following is *speculation* :
NV35: 550Mhz @ 8x1, FX Flow 2 ( slightly less noisy, but still much more than the competing ATI solution ) , CineFX 2, 256 bit memory bus, GDDR2 @ 550Mhz

It is also possible that it's 600/600 with GDDR3.

Now, the following is also speculation, I've got NO source to back any information.
Raw Memory Bandwidth: 35GB/s
Theorical MPixels: 4400/s
Vertices: 425M Vertices/s ( 10% by clock speed improvement, 10% by increased number of units )
Triangles: 425M Triangles/s ( identical to vertices, unlike the NV30 for which it's 200/350 )

CineFX 2: V3.0.+ ( more specialized native instructions, but really not as much of an advantage as CineFX had over VS2.0. )
PS3.0.+ ( once again, only more advanced native instructions, not so interesting at all )

But how to use all that bandwidth? 4X FSAA, much bigger textures and more triangles. Oh, and finally some 16X Aniso on nVidia cards...

But that's *speculation*, please don't think I know anything you don't.


Uttar

[PreservedSwine]

Is the NV35 supposed to compete w/ the R400 or R350?

[nutball]

Originally posted by Uttar
The following is *speculation* :
NV35: 550Mhz @ 8x1, FX Flow 2 ( slightly less noisy, but still much more than the competing ATI solution ) ,

Cool, so now the RPM of the fan on the card will become on of the PR guys selling points :D

GeForceFX 2, now with 600MHz core, 1.2GHz memory and DustBuster 3 at 10,000rpm!!!

[Gar]

Originally posted by Uttar
The following is *speculation* :
NV35: 550Mhz @ 8x1, FX Flow 2 ( slightly less noisy, but still much more than the competing ATI solution ) , CineFX 2, 256 bit memory bus, GDDR2 @ 550Mhz
Uttar

I sure hope for Nvidia sake they move to the 256 bit bus however, I highly doubt they will have a working 256 bit bus on a 12 layer pcb in time for the R400 release. Although I hope so :).

[Lensman]

Most people seem to agree that a lack of bandwidth is the main downfall for the NV30.

And, if the 128 bit bus is responsible for the NV30 running so hot and therefore so noisy, can Nvidia afford NOT to use a 256 bit bus in their next product?

If they have known for some time NV30 could not substantially beat Ati's 9700 , and I would guess they have known that for at least three months, then surely they have been aggressively prosecuting 256 bit bus technology for their next product?

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by Lensman
Most people seem to agree that a lack of bandwidth is the main downfall for the NV30.

And, if the 128 bit bus is responsible for the NV30 running so hot and therefore so noisy, can Nvidia afford NOT to use a 256 bit bus in their next product?

If they have known for some time NV30 could not substantially beat Ati's 9700 , and I would guess they have known that for at least three months, then surely they have been aggressively prosecuting 256 bit bus technology for their next product?

I'd be very surprised if Nvidia changed the bus. It just does not make sense.

The NV30 isn't *that* far behind the R9700 as it stands right now. Yes, the R350 will widen the gap.

But, the NV35 is merely intended to be a speed bumped version of the NV3x core, not an entirely new core that requires a new PCB. If they waste even more R&D on this card, instead of the NV40, it an unwise move, IMO. They spent so much on R&D on the NV30 because they wanted to keep this core around a long time.

That means it's highly adaptable to the future, ie greater clockspeeds without much core work. The NV3x is alot like the P4. People laughed when it debuted....but Intel got the last laugh...

The key to making the NV35 competitve is *not* a wider bus...it's incorporating low-k dialetrics into the design. Lower power consuption, less heat, higher clockspeeds, major improvement.

The NV3x core was designed around a *fast* core. If you try and add a 256 bit DDRbus on a PCB that already requires 12 layers, you're going to have to make some compromises in clockspeed. Well, the NV35 can't afford to do that, unless you want to redesign the entire coreand PCB, and that simply is *not* going to happen.

Sure, the NV30 is dissapointing....right now. ATI has won this round, hands down, and they may win the next one as well. The R400 vs. the NV40 will be pretty impressive, however.:)

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by PreservedSwine
Is the NV35 supposed to compete w/ the R400 or R350?
i'm pretty sure it's competing with the R400.

whether or not NV35 should have been out around now, there's no way we'll see it before Fall. and that's when the R400 is coming.

[borntosoul]

i think its very important for nvidia to show theyre still at the top of the 3d chain and release something faster than the r300 /r350, cause all talk wont mean s**t when ms has to pick who they want in the xbox 2 ,so i think theyll skip the speed pumbed version of the nv30 and come up with something a little changed (its obvious that the nv30 has serious flaws vs r300 )

[Lezmaka]

Originally posted by PreservedSwine
But, the NV35 is merely intended to be a speed bumped version of the NV3x core, not an entirely new core that requires a new PCB. If they waste even more R&D on this card, instead of the NV40, it an unwise move, IMO. They spent so much on R&D on the NV30 because they wanted to keep this core around a long time.


When they went from the GF3 to GF4, they needed a much bigger PCB, with probably a couple more layers too. Who really knows how hard it would be for them to switch to a 256bit bus for the nv35. It's not like they just now started working on it since nv30 is pretty much complete.

But widening the bus would probably be the biggest change they've made when going from a NVx0 to NVx5.

[Gar]

I think the discussion of whether Nvidia moves to a 256 bit bus for the NV35 will be debated and debated right until its debut. We can all pretty much agree that we have no clue if Nvidia will bring out the NV35 with the 256 or 128. Until then its a moot discussion.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by borntosoul
i think its very important for nvidia to show theyre still at the top of the 3d chain and release something faster than the r300 /r350, cause all talk wont mean s**t when ms has to pick who they want in the xbox 2 ,so i think theyll skip the speed pumbed version of the nv30 and come up with something a little changed (its obvious that the nv30 has serious flaws vs r300 )

well MS sure as hell isn't going to pick nvidia if they release something that runs as hot as or hotter than the gfFX and requires such ridiculous cooling. whether it's faster than what ATI offers or not. even if it was 50% faster i'm sure MS would go with a "regular" card.

[ragejg]

does the nv2a in the xbox have a hsf setup?

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by MuFu
http://smilies.xibase.com/brow.gif

MuFu.

:POKE: :D

[AngelGraves13]

the AA on the Nvidia card is not worse than that on the ATI one. The screenshots cannot take accurate shots of it since they're taken in the middle of the AA process. The ony way to compare it would be to play with it on.

[borntosoul]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
well MS sure as hell isn't going to pick nvidia if they release something that runs as hot as or hotter than the gfFX and requires such ridiculous cooling. whether it's faster than what ATI offers or not. even if it was 50% faster i'm sure MS would go with a "regular" card. true that too !ms would be looking really closely at options now ,they be making a decision in the next 6 months probably ,if they havnt done so allready .

[Lezmaka]

Assuming anand is right when he said
Whereas the GeForce4 had two parallel vertex shader units, the GeForce FX has a single vertex shader pipeline that has a massively parallel array of floating point processors.I wonder how easy it would be to just add a few more, maybe double the number or something like that to get better performance out of the vertex for the nv35.

[nick800]

in so many posts people keep saying the nv35 is supposed to bea speedbumped version of the nv30... granted.. but I mean c'mon, I don't think NVIDIA cares what it was supposed to be anymore..

umm questions, hasn't everyone gone through the heating issue when dropping to .13 and then it cools down eventually? so maybe no flowFX on nv35..? do you think that becuase of the current situation between them and ATI that NVIDIA will now put a lock down on specs leaking out on future cards? IE we won't even hear about what the nv35 will be now until its being reviewed... we'll only know rumors that stem off of uttar's guesses until then? =o)...

[Uttar]

I know this may sound strange coming out of me, but anyway...

The R400, if some of those leaks at B3D are true, will kill the NV35.
If those specs are true, then nVidia would have a real hard job being sure I'm not going to become a fanATIc...


Uttar

[volt]

I highly doubt they will raise the core/memory speeds on NV35. I can't imagine what are they going to do to increase the bandwidth if it's not going to be on 256bit bus.

[Gar]

Originally posted by Uttar
I know this may sound strange coming out of me, but anyway...

The R400, if some of those leaks at B3D are true, will kill the NV35.
If those specs are true, then nVidia would have a real hard job being sure I'm not going to become a fanATIc...


Uttar

I hear yeah Uttar. `I can not wait for CKMRNL to make another posting on the progress of the R400. Wonder when it will tape out and if it will be on the Low-k process? If they can get it on the low-k than its unimaginable what type of head room that card will have.

[nick800]

hehe that doesn't sound to weird uttar, alot of us go for the fastest card, whether its nvidia, ati, or some other company... it just sucks that because the geforceFX crapped out and the r350 is just a speedbump that there won't be a real increase over the 9700 for a while...

[Uttar]

Originally posted by nick800
hehe that doesn't sound to weird uttar, alot of us go for the fastest card, whether its nvidia, ati, or some other company... it just sucks that because the geforceFX crapped out and the r350 is just a speedbump that there won't be a real increase over the 9700 for a while...

Actually, the point I'm going for the fastest card isn't what's supposed to be weird.

I defended the NV30 against the R300 very often. And I still do, saying it isn't as bad as most people think ( but that doesn't mean it's good )
Here, however, I'm openly saying that based on rumored specs, the NV35 will be crushed.

Conclusion: If nVidia wants my support for the NV35 too, they got to send me a prototype real soon :D Or they got to leak R400 specs one way or another to show they aren't so great.

[MrNasty]

Uttar why would nvidia want your help ? Just cause an employee put your name in a video dosen't mean nvidia care what you think :p

[Mod]

I guess that if you smell hemp everyday, you got to see the power of R400.:argh: