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View Full Version : Oblivion Fix Proposals


Brimstone7
03-30-06, 07:21 AM
There's been a lot of complaining about all of the things supposedly wrong with Oblivion but not a whole lot of thought on how to fix them. It would be interesting to hear what everyone thinks would make the current incarnation better. I'm not talking about things like "more quests," "better textures," etc. I'm talking about design flaws with the way the game plays. I love this game to death but there are a few things that concern me.

My proposed fix for the "auto-leveling" problem is as follows. Each creature is given a base offset value. This value determines what level the creature starts out at with respect to the player. For example, rats would have an offset of 0 whereas tougher monsters would start say 5 or 6 levels above the player.

As the player levels, these monsters level with the player but not in a 1:1 fashion. Each creature also has an "experience curve" that determines how fast the creature keeps up with the player's level. For example, a rat's level would drop off very quickly. The rat would stay at level 1 until the player reaches level 3 or 4. The rat's level would only increase again when the player is level 8 or 9.

Other enemies, such as bandits, would have a fairly linear curve so that they gain maybe .8 levels for each of the player's levels. Assuming an offset of 0, when the player is level 1 the bandits are level 1, and when the player is level 10 the bandit is level 8. Other, thougher monsters would keep pace with the player but would never level faster than the player.

I think this would fix the game because it reintroduces some of the more traditional RPG aspects into the game. At the outset some monsters will be way more powerful than the player (those with high offsets) but, because of the scaling curve every challenge will eventually be surmountable by dedication. Even if a monster starts 20 levels above the player, with the right curve the player and the monster could be the same level at say level 40, and the player would be stronger than this monster at level 60.

With this solution, you could implement "hard" dungeons that hide valuable treasure from the outset. The treasure would also be on the same curve as the dungeon's guardians. No matter what level the player is, the dungeon would still be considered hard and the treasure would be considered worthwhile. However, as the player levels up, the dungeon will get easier over time due to said scaling curve. Everyone would be happy. You still have the scaling needed in a game this open ended without negating the effects of leveling up (or punishing the player for doing so.) Anyone else have any ideas?

Wylde
03-30-06, 07:33 AM
I think they should tweak the balance between regular weapons and enchanted weapons a bit, using any enchanted weapons against any normal weapon with a decent skill for the weapon type results in lots of hack and slash.

Also, I think the weapon charges are kind of weak, after a few uses it's completely drained requiring recharging which is annoying if you're in a dungeon with like 2 lesser soul gems or something.

Another problem I think I'm having is with horses. I got Shadowmere today and went for a stroll in an oblivion gate, came back out and it was gone from it's spot, the fact it has no map markers makes this even more fun trying to find it again :\

Superfly
03-30-06, 07:36 AM
nice idea, would be easy to do in a patch too, the problem I see though is that setting "hard dungeons" and hard creatures from the outset would tottaly change the game dynamic and would mean everybody would loose there saves and have to re-start.

having said that I would have no problem with re-starting, its a fun as hell game.

hazindu
03-30-06, 08:44 AM
I agree, I hate being punished for gaining levels. I didn't like it with FF8, I didn't like it in Saga Frontier, and I don't like it with Oblivion. When I started the game I was getting my ass kicked by everything and everyone, the whole point of building levels was to fix that, not to make it worse.

5H4RP
03-30-06, 09:35 AM
Good idea. Why not post that up to the official forums in the mods section...
Someone might make it happen.

hazindu
03-30-06, 11:09 AM
Good idea. Why not post that up to the official forums in the mods section...
Someone might make it happen. agreed. Brimstone7, it seems like you put some thought into that, why not see if someone will make it for you?

anticitizenzero
03-30-06, 11:32 AM
What they should have done with the leveling is keep all the creatures in the general world around you stay at the same level, while creatures that are involved in the main quest level up with you.

Gnu_Raiz
03-30-06, 11:59 AM
I don't think any fix will be a fix, for example if you choose any major skill and you use it a lot guess what, you level up. Duh! It all depends on how YOU play the game, why not just get rid of major level skills, let every skill have the same options.

Oh that is right we want monsters to be gimped by your lowest stat, which will change from character to character. Why should the game developers make a patch to fix how you play the game?

My suggestion is learn to play the game, if your an expert in sneak but only a novice in blade or block, who is to blame? OH that's right those Damn developers, because the monsters level with your character.

Oh and they did provide a fix, it's called the difficulty slider.

|---------|---------|
|----|--------------|

So if you gimped your character, and fell like *itching, remember theirs 4 fingers pointing right back at you.

This is a rpg, and character development is very important.

Boys and Girls, the moral of the story is, DON'T GIMP YOUR CHARACTER!

zoomy942
03-30-06, 12:02 PM
the only thing i have found that makes it easier against higher monsters is focusing on a skill and sticking to it. i am a master bowman, and it takes maybe 3 arrows or so to kill something. that hasnt changed from the beginning of the game. i just focus on agility and marksman

CaptNKILL
03-30-06, 12:18 PM
I don't think any fix will be a fix, for example if you choose any major skill and you use it a lot guess what, you level up. Duh! It all depends on how YOU play the game, why not just get rid of major level skills, let every skill have the same options.

Oh that is right we want monsters to be gimped by your lowest stat, which will change from character to character. Why should the game developers make a patch to fix how you play the game?

My suggestion is learn to play the game, if your an expert in sneak but only a novice in blade or block, who is to blame? OH that's right those Damn developers, because the monsters level with your character.

Oh and they did provide a fix, it's called the difficulty slider.

|---------|---------|
|----|--------------|

So if you gimped your character, and fell like *itching, remember theirs 4 fingers pointing right back at you.

This is a rpg, and character development is very important.

Boys and Girls, the moral of the story is, DON'T GIMP YOUR CHARACTER!
Well, there is a problem. I dont complain about it so much, but I have deffinitely noticed it.

Saying the game is balanced and doesnt need any tweaking is down right untrue. It may be a personal preference, but for most people, this current system is showing some flaws.

I went into a dungeon that I had cleared out previously and I saw bandits running around (that were easy to kill) that were wearing better armor than I was. I shouldnt be able to go looking for weak bandits in the sewer when I want an armor upgrade :p

Brimstone7
03-30-06, 04:07 PM
Programming is actually a hobby of mine (I have a degree in Computer Science for what it's worth) so I might take a crack at it myself. I haven't even looked at the construction set yet so I don't know if it's possible or not. Right now I'm leading towards the "no" side because I have a feeling the way the game is balanced might be hard coded. I'll download the tools later and see if I can come up with a small proof of concept to see if it's actually a feasable idea.

EDIT: Okay just took a look at the construction set and this idea is not only possible, but is actually already in place! There are settings for automatically generating the mosters' stats based upon the players level as well as an option to offset the monster's level from the player's. It's possible to put a cap on the monster's max level so eventually they will stop leveling up with you. Dungeons and other areas seem to be given a list of monsters to generate based upon what the player's level is. This probably negates the max level of the monsters because after a particular level cap is reached, a different type of monster with a higher cap is generated anyway.

So it looks like most of my idea is already in the game. Seems that the balance may be off, though. It's entirely possible for a mod to come out down the line that totally changes the dungeons and tries to manually balance each area. However, I think the best option right now is to sit tight and wait for a patch. The potential for rebalancing is already here and it's entirely possible (and in fact likely) that the developers will go back in and change some values around to appease the masses.

Sidric
03-30-06, 11:07 PM
the only thing i have found that makes it easier against higher monsters is focusing on a skill and sticking to it. i am a master bowman, and it takes maybe 3 arrows or so to kill something. that hasnt changed from the beginning of the game. i just focus on agility and marksman

I second that. My character currently focuses on marksman and I can take stuff down fairly quickly even at lvl 12. Maybe that's why you guys are having a rough time? Spreading yourself out too much perhaps? I dunno, maybe you are all right and this actually is a design issue. Either way I'm having a hella lotta fun playing this game :D

killahsin
03-30-06, 11:36 PM
I think they should tweak the balance between regular weapons and enchanted weapons a bit, using any enchanted weapons against any normal weapon with a decent skill for the weapon type results in lots of hack and slash.

Also, I think the weapon charges are kind of weak, after a few uses it's completely drained requiring recharging which is annoying if you're in a dungeon with like 2 lesser soul gems or something.

Another problem I think I'm having is with horses. I got Shadowmere today and went for a stroll in an oblivion gate, came back out and it was gone from it's spot, the fact it has no map markers makes this even more fun trying to find it again :\


oblivion stone enchants are around 70 uses each. So far they are the best enchants u can get and have some seriously sweet ones out there. If you buy a horse u quick travel once somewhere and itll meet up with you there

Wylde
03-31-06, 04:57 AM
oblivion stone enchants are around 70 uses each. So far they are the best enchants u can get and have some seriously sweet ones out there. If you buy a horse u quick travel once somewhere and itll meet up with you there
Ah ok, I think the reason I'm partly annoyed is because I keep switching playing styles. I am a sorcerer with 100 destruction/conjuration but I can't seem to get enough fun from enchanted weapons because they run out quick :(

I'll have to look into those oblivion stone enchants hehe ;)

hazindu
03-31-06, 08:59 AM
Its kinda funny. In Morrowind, after years of playing I settled on 9 mods, most of which were add-on expansion types. Only two gameplay changers; bloodpassive, and cliffracer remover. So far with Oblivion, I have 16 mods all of which are meant to balance out various aspects of the game. Make this harder here, make this easier here etc etc.

hazindu
03-31-06, 09:01 AM
EDIT: Okay just took a look at the construction set and this idea is not only possible, but is actually already in place! There are settings for automatically generating the mosters' stats based upon the players level as well as an option to offset the monster's level from the player's. It's possible to put a cap on the monster's max level so eventually they will stop leveling up with you. Dungeons and other areas seem to be given a list of monsters to generate based upon what the player's level is. This probably negates the max level of the monsters because after a particular level cap is reached, a different type of monster with a higher cap is generated anyway.

So it looks like most of my idea is already in the game. Seems that the balance may be off, though. It's entirely possible for a mod to come out down the line that totally changes the dungeons and tries to manually balance each area. However, I think the best option right now is to sit tight and wait for a patch. The potential for rebalancing is already here and it's entirely possible (and in fact likely) that the developers will go back in and change some values around to appease the masses.Your right, its not hard to do, but it will be very time consuming, and it will probably take alot of trial and error to get the balance right. I may take a stab at it, but I imagin someone at ESsource will have it done before me, and probably do it better than I could.