What was NVIDIA thinking about with the NV30!

[randsom]

i am curious to see how nvidia responds to the "its not as fast as it should be" reviews.

Do they rush the reviewers new drivers.
do they get the design teams workig on the nv35 24hrs a day.
do they lower the price of the fx and its derivatives.
do they do nothing. and let things run their course.

exactly, what do they do to stop the bleeding.

i beleive now that youll see the nv35 alot sooner than originally estimated.

[Typedef Enum]

Like I said @ Beyond3D last night...

The marketing guys are going to have to go in overdrive to spin some serious wool, so to speak.

This product, for all intents and purposes, is a flop. There's no possible way I would ever allow something that loud in my system. In fact, when I put together my current setup, it was _all_ about reducing the noise as much as humanly possible, and I did a fairly good job.

The MP3's that Tom provided were just insane. But the more telling story is the fact that, despite the ridiculous clockspeed, this product is very unbalanced in terms of bandwidth, and it completely shows when enabling high IQ settings @ high resolutions.

There's really nothing they can do about this until they switch to a 256-bit memory interface. They banked on DDR2 to get them over the bandwidth hump, and it's very clear that it simply doesn't cut the mustard compared to something like R300...and it's only going to get much worse once ATI launches the R350.

That's going to be the more telling story, IMHO. With a tweaked R300 core with higher clock and darn near 10 GB/sec bandwidth at it's disposal over the FX, it would pretty much allow you to run the card w/ high levels of AA at high resolutions...And the real kicker is the fact that the R300 has better AA implementations to boot!

[randsom]

i think youre completly right Typedef Enum. it is a unbalanced card,
The only way to fix this is a 256 bit memory bus, but nvidia has said thats its overkill at this point.

remember when nvidias ceo was stating that this card was going to be the biggest contribution to pc graphics that nvidia had ever produced, and the biggest speed jump the company ever had,someone screwed the pooch on this one, I would hate to be the design team responsible for the design of this card. probably not a real good work enviroment at nvidia today

[digitalwanderer]

They've been in damage control since about the end of October-beginning of November by my reckoning, with a huge step-up in the information lock-down right around x-mas time 'til present.

I'm just waiting to see what they do with all the reviews. Y'know, how they take blurbs to put on their web-page and stuff? I'll bet that Tom's gets the most quotes. ;)

[nutball]

Originally posted by randsom
i think youre completly right Typedef Enum. it is a unbalanced card,
The only way to fix this is a 256 bit memory bus, but nvidia has said thats its overkill at this point.

256-bits and 1GHz DDR-2. Yikes! How many layers on that PCB?


remember when nvidias ceo was stating that this card was going to be the biggest contribution to pc graphics that nvidia had ever produced, and the biggest speed jump the company ever had,someone screwed the pooch on this one, I would hate to be the design team responsible for the design of this card. probably not a real good work enviroment at nvidia today

Well when he said that, it was probably the way it was looking (before all the problems).

You're right though, I wouldn't want to be working there today.

[randsom]

oh your right, what i really meant was , how does nvidia fix this whole mess of a severly late under performing 400 dollar video card, and they had better do it fast, this card is getting ripped to shreds in every tech forum across the world.

you know ive been thinking about this since last night.nvidia had to know how this card performed months ago,why didnt they do something. if it was even scrap it and go straight for nv35, it makes sense to me ,i know the stockholders want new cards on the market and nvidia wants to keep the name recognizable, but i dont think this is the way they wanted to do it.

nutball i dont how many more layers it would take, i doubt their engineers do either:eek:

[Hanners]

Originally posted by randsom
you know ive been thinking about this since last night.nvidia had to know how this card performed months ago,why didnt they do something. if it was even scrap it and go straight for nv35, it makes sense to me ,i know the stockholders want new cards on the market and nvidia wants to keep the name recognizable, but i dont think this is the way they wanted to do it.

Considering it's alledgedly the most expensive video card ever to be developed (I can't remember the exact figure in millions of dollars), it wouldn't have made very good financial sense to 'just scrap it'.

The product was finished, Nvidia knew they just had to bite the bullet and hope for the best.

[randsom]

well Hanners, i agree and disagree on the scrap it issue, the gpu part seems not be the real problem with this card,how late it is, the memory bus, unbalalnced perfomance and price point for it.
and the hype the card recived for the big N itself.

i can see nvidia need to recoup there r$d dollars on this and probably alot sooner than later, the design was done.sell it in its current state, make some of our money back because people will buy it, move on to the next thing.


heres why i disagree.this card is squarly targeted at the enuthisiast market and the this targeted market wont like this card the way it is, i dont think its going to sell well,even though the enthsiast market makes up a very small % of the business, we carry alot of weight. this card will not be recieved well in this community. its marginal faster(and slower) than a card thats been out for months. drivers wont magically save this card, its a hardware limitation. The negative light this card is under right now, will hurt Ns enthusiast sales down the road and probably will affect Ns oem sales also as ATI has faster solutions with better price points across the board available now. some very bad decisions were made here. i dont think its going to kill nvidia, but it will make people think twice.

[PreservedSwine]

I do not think there's any way Nvidia would opt for a 256 bit DDR bus on the NV35. They'll save that for the NV40 core.

Interestingly, I think the NV35 will compete just fine with the R350, once Nvidia adopts lowK dialetrics on theNV3x design..

The NV3x was not designed with a 256 bit bus in mind, but rather, designed to take advatge of high clockspeeds over pure efficiency, ie P4. Remember the 1st P4 designs? People scoffed at how much faster AMD was....but who's laughing now?

To put a 256bit DDR bus on the NV30 would compeltey change the aspects of the NV30, and, considering it's already on a 12 layer PCB, doubling the bus width would have some sacrifices to core speed as well...

I think once low-k is incorporated, the NV35clockspeeds will increase substancially, making it a toss-up as to who will win the R350/NV35 crown...

One thing, however, seems almost certain..

The R350 will be the undisputed king once it arrives.

Anyone know the perspective release dates for the NV35, NV40, and R400?:cool:

[randsom]

very soon i hope, myupgrade addiction needs some feeding.

[no_way]

NVidia stated that they didnt see advantages in deferred rendering while designing NV30, so its an IMR.
I wonder whether they are regretting this desicion now ? From the looks of it, we have product on 0.13 process, its performing _well enough_ for the time being, but its a freakin monster ( i wonder if anyone would even want to build those rumoured multi-chip cards with NV30 .. would have to be cryocooled from start )

The whole thing seems to be crying for efficiency. Its highly unlikely that NV35 will be significantly different arhitecture, so theres prolly even bigger monster coming.

[volt]

Seriously, NV30 should be considered a prototype (for testing purposes only) heh.

[randsom]

Seriously, NV30 should be considered a prototype (for testing purposes only) heh.

thats a very expensive prototype,for both N and us consumers.

i am very disappointed w/ the geforce fx situation, i expected so much more.

btw cowboy, i had a geforce fx pre-ordered and i canceled it this morning.the way i figured it, if it kicked a** i would be one of the first to have it, if it sucked, nothin lost since my cc wasnt billed, guess what happened. i think im going to check out the r350

[nin_fragile14]

Originally posted by Typedef Enum
Like I said @ Beyond3D last night...

The marketing guys are going to have to go in overdrive to spin some serious wool, so to speak.

This product, for all intents and purposes, is a flop. There's no possible way I would ever allow something that loud in my system. In fact, when I put together my current setup, it was _all_ about reducing the noise as much as humanly possible, and I did a fairly good job.

The MP3's that Tom provided were just insane. But the more telling story is the fact that, despite the ridiculous clockspeed, this product is very unbalanced in terms of bandwidth, and it completely shows when enabling high IQ settings @ high resolutions.

There's really nothing they can do about this until they switch to a 256-bit memory interface. They banked on DDR2 to get them over the bandwidth hump, and it's very clear that it simply doesn't cut the mustard compared to something like R300...and it's only going to get much worse once ATI launches the R350.

That's going to be the more telling story, IMHO. With a tweaked R300 core with higher clock and darn near 10 GB/sec bandwidth at it's disposal over the FX, it would pretty much allow you to run the card w/ high levels of AA at high resolutions...And the real kicker is the fact that the R300 has better AA implementations to boot!

Pefectly said.

[randsom]

do you guys think Nvidia know the geforce fx blows.

[Uttar]

I don't think nVidia figured that out yet, randsom :D

nVidia: If you need some help doing damage control, just send me a GFFX. I'll make sure to show all of its advantages, even if they can only be seen in strange theorical benchies made by the devil himself ;)


Uttar

[randsom]

uttar. you knew this was coming didnt ya.youve been saying all along this card had some definite disadvantages

[Solomon]

I do find it funny that the websites who where pushing the "pre-ordering" of the FX are now like, "Um.... The card is o.k."...

:)

In all seriousness, The attitude has changed dramatically toward the NV30. Now that results are finally released. The Pro NV30 Fanboys are all now on defensive and damage control. It's just comical to watch. Hehehe :angel:

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by randsom
do you guys think Nvidia know the geforce fx blows.

The scene a somber and forboding conference room. It reaks of profesionalism, greed, and cut-throat wall street alliances. 12 execs sit around a table nervously and they all sit up straight at attention and a hush falls on the room as The Chief walks in...


The Chief "Now I've been hearing a lot of bosh and nonsense criticising our FX launch this morning, does anyone know what the fuss is about?"

The Twelve "Gosh no!", mutter-mutter, "Criticisim? Of the FX?", mutter-mutter-mutter, "Blasphemy!", mutter-mutter

The Chief "I know, but hard as it is to believe there are actually a few people out there saying bad anyways. You there, Johnson; why do you think that may be?"

Johnson (rather timidly and in a meek voice) "Well sir, you don't think it could have anything to do with the fact that the FX blows...do you sir? Especially considering we've sort of been saying that it won't blow for the past few months?"





Ok, so maybe it was just funny in me own head. :)

[no_way]

For the people who missed it on NVNews front page, sapphire sells r9700's without _active cooling_, NO FAN at all. Yes you heard it right, NO noise at all.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/VGA/9700proult.asp

Where does that leave our beloved dustbuster ?

[randsom]

no, it was funny.

ill betcha something similar really did happen at Nvidia this morning,


ive been bouncing around a couple of different forums this morning, and everyones basically saying the same stuff that been said here.Nvidias got some work to do.

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by randsom
i am curious to see how nvidia responds to the "its not as fast as it should be" reviews.

Do they rush the reviewers new drivers.
do they get the design teams workig on the nv35 24hrs a day.
do they lower the price of the fx and its derivatives.
do they do nothing. and let things run their course.

exactly, what do they do to stop the bleeding.

i beleive now that youll see the nv35 alot sooner than originally estimated.

I would say nVidia is up **** creek without a paddle.

[ASCI Blue]

Originally posted by volt
Seriously, NV30 should be considered a prototype (for testing purposes only) heh.

Sweet, does that mean that ATi gets R300 for a prototype (for testing purposes only) too?

[-=DVS=-]

Yeah Nvidia started doing damage control from the day one it was paper launched :rolleyes:

As i said many time before NV30 sucks big time , boo Nvidia :o :D

[randsom]

im just not sure what the direction nvidia was trying to take this card, were they trying to take back the performance crown, were they just puttig somethin out the door.

they knew the performance wasnt that great, they knew it was unbalanced. they had to have known it was going to get ripped.especially with how late it was. that just doesnt sound like nvidia to me.they lost their edge.