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suburbanguy
01-30-03, 02:28 PM
If I recall, Nvidia's first ever graphics chip was not the Riva128, but the NV1. The NV1 was used in the Diamond Edge card. there were several versions. Nividia NV1 and SGS-Thomson's STG2000.
same basic chip, except one supported DRAM. that was back in 1995.
then, the next chip Nvidia designed never made it to market since it was too complex and didnt work. Nvidia went back to work and did not resurface until 1997 with the Riva128, their third chip, their second chip that made it to release.

I have a question, but first i wanted to establish something:
the TNT architecture was the basis of every chip upto the GFFX as far as I understand. that would include the NV25/GF4ti series. TNT was used through GF4ti, my question is: what about Riva128? was TNT a whole new architecture from Riva128 or was TNT based on Riva128 like GeForce was based on TNT/TNT2?

(sorry if that sounds confusing)

The Baron
01-30-03, 02:42 PM
NV10/NV20/NV30 are all new architectures, AFAIK.

The MAJOR change from NV1 to NV3 (I think that's R128) is that NV3 used triangles instead of quads like NV1. NV2 was produced for Sega, IIRC, and they chose not to use it so it died quickly.

saturnotaku
01-30-03, 02:46 PM
NV3 was the Riva 128, I think. NV4 was the TNT and was a completely different architecture from the NV3.

Then NV10/20/30 were all new, again IIRC.

gokickrocks
01-30-03, 03:20 PM
i have the Diamond Edge 3D (NV1) sitting in one of my old p1s...

i bought it for its feature to play sega cd games, man was that a bust...

whats funny though is that it suffered delays as well (yes, i did preorder w/o knowing how it performed)...after i got the card, news on the card was a dead silence, and i believe it was being pulled off the market

but its still going on strong nevertheless...

ATI LoVeR 9700
01-30-03, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
NV3 was the Riva 128, I think. NV4 was the TNT and was a completely different architecture from the NV3.

Then NV10/20/30 were all new, again IIRC.

My god... Your in Naperville... I'm sorry... That is the yuppiest place on earth. I mean the higschool is 96% white! LOL!

It seems to me like nVidia started to build off the NV10. I think the Geforce3 is a Geforce2 with pixel shaders and memory optimization techniques. The NV30 seems to be a new design. nVidia has very efficient chips, but this 500MHZ NV30 is getting gobbled by a 325mhz R300... I think it's their architecture that's causing the problems, doesn't seem like they stuck to what works.

So IMO the NV10 and NV20 line of GPU's are rather similair.

suburbanguy
01-30-03, 06:33 PM
My god... Your in Naperville... I'm sorry... That is the yuppiest place on earth. I mean the higschool is 96% white! LOL!

Hey, I'm in Gurnee, formerly Glenview. I dunno much about Gurnee yet, but Glenview was pretty damn yuppy, from what I remember, and it's grown alot from when I was there last.




NV3 was the Riva 128, I think. NV4 was the TNT and was a completely different architecture from the NV3.

yeah that's right, NV3 = Riva128, and NV4 = TNT. Okay, so TNT is completely different from Riva128. I kinda thought so, but was unsure.


Then NV10/20/30 were all new, again IIRC

this i just don't know, i keep reading people mentioning that NV10,NV15,NV20,NV25 were all based on the TNT pipeline.
maybe not then. i'll take your word though :)

StealthHawk
01-30-03, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by suburbanguy
this i just don't know, i keep reading people mentioning that NV10,NV15,NV20,NV25 were all based on the TNT pipeline.
maybe not then. i'll take your word though :)

no. the TNT core had 2 pipelines. NV10/15/20/25 all have four, with the latter three being 4X2 instead of 4X1 like the NV10

lagadu
01-30-03, 08:45 PM
wasn't the NV1 the chip inside the sega saturn, the one that worked with quad primitives?

StealthHawk
01-30-03, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by lagadu
wasn't the NV1 the chip inside the sega saturn, the one that worked with quad primitives?

no, NV2 was a competitor to be the chip inside the Saturn.

gokickrocks
01-30-03, 11:14 PM
i believe the nv1 was used for sega cd for those that remember it...

for those that dont, it was as big as a vcr that sat on the bottom of the sega console

a4164
01-30-03, 11:41 PM
SegaCD used a faster version of the Motorola 6800 chip used inside of Genesis. It had no 3-D capabilites to speak of. It was only until the 32X that Sega brought 3-D gaming to the home market. Nvidia was not involved in that either.

http://dextremes.com/genesis/gen-spec.html

Sega did port some early Saturn titles to work on the Diamond Edge because both Saturn and NV1 used forward-rendered quads. NV2 was of course a failed venture between Sega and nvidia:

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/nv2/



and if u want a brief history lesson, this article is pretty good about it:

http://accelenation.com/?ac.id.123.1

gokickrocks
01-30-03, 11:47 PM
i stand corrected...all i know is that my edge3d could play sega cd games, so i assumed it was the same core...

suburbanguy
01-31-03, 03:26 AM
ok here's what i am certain of. the Diamond Edge 3D / NV1
had several conversions of Saturn games. i.e. Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter Remix. the card could NOT play actual Saturn games or the previous generation Sega CD.

Sega CD and Saturn did not have ANY Nvidia technology whatsoever. Saturn had Hitachi CPUs (SH2s) and custom Sega video chips (VDPs) and Hitachi audio hardware. The SegaCD was an addon for the cartridge based Genesis, and had an additional MC68000 @ 12.5 Mhz plus the Genesis' own 7.6 Mhz 68000.

The NV2 was going to be in a console from Sega that was neither the Dreamcast (PowerVR based, aka Katana aka Dural) nor the Dreamcast's compeitior (3Dfx Voodoo/Banshee based BlackBelt)
but something that came before those two prototypes. if you ecall, Sega had concidered Nvidia, 3DO's M2 and Lockheed's Real3D as gfx chipset providers for a console. that's at least 5 different 3D providers in all
(PowerVR, 3Dfx, Lockheed, Nvidia NV2, 3DO M2) before settling on PowerVR from Videologic & NEC which was in the DC/Katana.

NV2 never got completed or at least not released as far as anyone knows. (Firingsquad article mentions Sega Pico but i dont know about that)

ragejg
01-31-03, 09:13 AM
THIS HAS BUGGED ME LONG ENOUGH!!

...i have 2 sega pico's... I'll rip one apart and take some pics...

i wanna know for sure...

I coulda sworn the pico used the Z80 from the Sega Master system... the gfx and sound match the SMS to a T...

more on this later...

suburbanguy
04-01-04, 04:56 PM
this is a fun thread that should continue...

-=DVS=-
04-01-04, 07:17 PM
I think baseis for all Geforce was , Geforce 1 actually it introduced T&L unit and four pipes with one texture unit, TNT did not had it , GF2 was only improved version of GF1 with more power, Geforce 3 was new it was first to bring Pixel Shaders Geforce 4 only improved version of GF3 , GeforceFx is new core again bringing Flouting Point Shaders no longer fixed .

Thats main highlights of new cores from generation to generation ;) NV40 well noone knows actuall spec here , but it should be few steps more advanced then its predecesor nv30 ( disregarding speed improvements offcourse )

Any thoughts ?

|JuiceZ|
04-01-04, 07:49 PM
NV1 was made for one of Sega original consoles.

theultimo
04-01-04, 11:44 PM
Heh, I had a Riva 128, the difference between the TNT and 128 was no automatic sizing of mipmaps...and a bit faster, about the fill rate of ~Voodoo2 w/o SLI corrrect?

-=DVS=-
04-01-04, 11:53 PM
Heh, I had a Riva 128, the difference between the TNT and 128 was no automatic sizing of mipmaps...and a bit faster, about the fill rate of ~Voodoo2 w/o SLI corrrect?

TNT 1 was realy slow compared to even Voodoo 1 , TNT2 Ultra on another hand was rely nice :D , my not so close friend still got antique TNT :retard:

theultimo
04-01-04, 11:56 PM
TNT 1 was realy slow compared to even Voodoo 1 , TNT2 Ultra on another hand was rely nice :D , my not so close friend still got antique TNT :retard:
It did have 32-bit rendering? Or was it still the good ole 24-bit?

-=DVS=-
04-02-04, 12:28 AM
It did have 32-bit rendering? Or was it still the good ole 24-bit?

TNT 1 , offcourse had 32bit just slow :p think there was either 16bit or 32bit colors in 3d only in 2d was options for 16/24/32 ,nvidia was competing with ATIs card those days but ATI was so bad back then its not even funny i think 32 bits were faster on atis rage 128 chips for a while but TNT would outrun it in 16bit mode all the time or was it TNT2 cant recall, need to check if tomshardware or some other site got old archives of benchmarks !!!, Voodoo only had 16bit , or higher internal 22 or 24 bits for newer Voodoo 4/5 probably.Voodoo 2 was hella fast in 16bit apps , still remeber awesome Glide Wing Commander Prophecy or something effects were out of its time , color blend mmm nice sprite missile fogs :drooling:

not to confuse with 2d bit colors.
I got interested my self so found old chart but its hard to remember what cards are voodoo what riva 128 or if any tnts
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/19971130/images/quake-1.jpg

only voodoo 1s riva 128 and other oldies :p
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/19971130/quake-03.html


Here found good compare TNT vs Voodoo 2 , 3dfx mopped floor with tnt :D
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/19981007/images/image41.gifhttp://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/19981007/images/image45.gif http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/19981007/images/image46.gif

ragejg
04-02-04, 12:35 AM
NV1 was made for one of Sega original consoles.

PICO!!

heh, I still have them... never did find an nv chip in them... mebbie they are remarked?