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WolfThirteen
05-08-06, 02:44 PM
Okay, before someone chimes in with "DAoC" hear me out.

The type of PvP I like can be summed up in one game: Diablo II. I'm an EX-Diablo II hardcore player who's looking for a MMORPG that has very similar gameplay mechanics as Diablo II. None of this capture the flag/base bull****, or instanced battleground rubbish, but REAL HARDCORE PVP.(this rules out WoW by default).

Are there any MMORPGs like this? Actually, are there ANY games like this? I played Diablo II for 5+ years and it's time to move on, but to what? I don't know.

slick
05-08-06, 04:47 PM
No video game like that really exists anymore, at least not in MMO form. World PvP in WoW can get pretty intense if you look for it. Just like any other MMO there are always "spots" where you can always find a good fight. I wouldn't classify any server as "hardcore", but every server does have it's batch of constant world PvPers that make names for themselves and get reviled among the other factions population for raping them multiple times in popular PvE spots. Roll a rogue and enjoy if that's your thing.

a12ctic
05-08-06, 08:58 PM
WoWs pvp was enjoyable, i really liked DAOC's pvp as well...

|MaguS|
05-08-06, 09:10 PM
Best? Lineage 2 or DOAC

WoW is kiddy crap compared to them...

Tygerwoody
05-09-06, 08:17 AM
Best? Lineage 2 or DOAC

WoW is kiddy crap compared to them...
.

darkrider01
05-11-06, 02:35 PM
Eve Online - the PvP there will make you crazy.

ynnek
05-11-06, 05:08 PM
Eve Online - the PvP there will make you crazy.

Yes.. that game is crazy.. A lot slower paced overall though.


My coworker says Lineage 2 was also pure PvP too.

James H
05-14-06, 08:22 AM
Ultima Online is the best mmorpg of all time IMO. By far the best pvp.

Tygerwoody
05-16-06, 11:38 AM
actually, to be honest I think EQ has the best PVP system when it comes to server wide PVP. Good luck getting back into the game and actually winning a battle though. EQ veterans that still play are likely to rip your a new one. ;)

jeffmd
05-16-06, 04:29 PM
eq? eq1? you mean the pvp servers? meh.. of ANY mmorpg, eq has some of the worst pvp because some classes simply cant pvp. In the end game, priest and enchanters are gank fodder (though it has gotten better. For instance the priest have that painfull damage shield proc now, but if you dont have it memmed, consider yourself pwned).

World of warcraft has GREAT pvp, if you could actually play in it. Thanks to the HUGE imbalance between horde and alliance, and only being able to pvp (aside from duels) the opposit faction, youd better hope you like playing horde, cause youd be sitting on your ass for many hours inbetween matches as alliance. But since each class was given alot of strengths allowing for things like high soloability, they can generaly all hold their own against eachother (though you do still have the age old problem of warriors with uber weapons tearing soft armor classes apart).

UO, even less PVP friendly than eq.

DAOC, sorry my info on this game outside of the first few months I playd and promptly quit it is slim. The realm vs realm premis seemed way cool but when I playd, several classes were incomplete let alone balanced.

From my experience, Guild Wars is probably bar none, the best group battle pvp experience (I think theres 1 on 1 arena matches somewhere, not sure. ^^), and while some arenas use flags, they are actually used to "buff" your side while you slaughter eachother. They arnt used as a point system. But guild wars was from the start, designed to be a pvp game (though, as a kind of new guildwars player, I am very surprised at how fleshed out the PvE compaign is. All the reviews made it sound like it was nothing but instances missions and PvP arenas, but there is a HUGE instanced world as well. Not as free roaming as wow or eq, more like Dungion siege 2, but its big).

All the classes are painstakenly balanced, with each one given an absolute buttload of spells that the classes dont share (there is a half dozen assortment of signents, spells all classes can get wich cover a minor heal and a resurection spell with a limited recharge ability) and only 8 of them to carry into a fight, with no switching them around in the middle of a match. That combined with each class mix having 7 ability trees to put abilitie points into (think WoW talents), increasing the strength of the spells under said tree, one monk/necro wont be the same as the next monk/necro you meet on the field. Abilities is very much like WoW's talents, but NCsoft (either for better or worse) is not restrictive with them and anytime you enter a city/outpost you can move around all your points, compleatly reconfiguring your characters strengths without penalty.

That said, since when is Diablo2 a pvp game? Sure I guess you can beat eachother up, but good god, low spell selection, a very small selection of talents (wich if i recall, you can never modify, so if you choose badly..your screwed for life) and what is it..6 classes with expansion? and no hybrid mix of abilities. Sorry..Diablo2 sucks worse then eq1 when it comes to pvp.

faraday
05-18-06, 05:07 AM
Having played most MMO's in the recent years, I would say Ultima Online was by far the best PvP experience I have ever had. Second would be Daoc.

vampireuk
05-18-06, 05:40 AM
(though you do still have the age old problem of warriors with uber weapons tearing soft armor classes apart).

Heaven forbid a huge axe rips through cloth huh? ;)

jeffmd
05-18-06, 11:38 AM
yea, but after said warrior is struck by lightning?

vampireuk
05-19-06, 04:14 AM
One spell doesn't kill a warrior. ;)

The "problem" of a caster getting killed by a warrior is hardly a problem. The idea is you try to use your skills to keep the warrior at a distance and wear him down. If you get into melee you are going to lose badly. :p

nrdstrm
05-20-06, 12:59 PM
Well, I havn't seen PVP in action. But Vanguard looks to be an awesome game. The developer (Brad) has stated that there will be at LEAST 1 PVP Server with a special PVP ruleset. So far it is said you will be able to attack anyone, anywhere, wich sounds kinda like what the OP wanted..

jeffmd
05-23-06, 02:56 PM
One spell doesn't kill a warrior. ;)

I thought you were speaking in the "real world" sense. Cause in a magical world, just as a warrior lets his armor do the tanking and his skills do the damage, a caster would use his magic to become his armor. That said, only GWs actually has some builds for casters where they can reduce damage done to them on a grand scale. In games like EQ and WoW, defensive caster buffs give a few more hp, but dosnt impact their armor rating and reduce damage, and as you said weapons just rip right through them.


The "problem" of a caster getting killed by a warrior is hardly a problem. The idea is you try to use your skills to keep the warrior at a distance and wear him down. If you get into melee you are going to lose badly. :p

Saddly both WoW and GW have the stupid logic that all melee should get a sprint type ability as well as "snares", both wich are generaly unremoveable by spells/damage because they are non-magic, and at the same time the caster dosnt have sprint (or its unusable after snare) and HIS method of snare is broken by some type of damage.

slick
05-23-06, 04:27 PM
Guild wars at least has it half correct. Healers are easily able to sustain themselves vs two, maybe even three targets. Boon-protters FTW! That's entirely becaue of their unique energy system, though. WoW unfortunately does not have the same fate. Healers can stay alive easy though a warrior for the duration of their mana, but mana isn't exactly an easily renewable resource in WoW.

The only class that mages should be able to pwnface 1vs1 all the time is, infact, warriors. Mages played right can beat other classes, but even a less-than-knowledgable mage player should be able to kill a warrior (and rogue, if done correctly). We do get owned by certain other things though, like warlocks, druids, and hunters. Oh, and shadow priests too, but those own EVERYTHING.

vampireuk
05-23-06, 05:21 PM
I thought you were speaking in the "real world" sense. Cause in a magical world, just as a warrior lets his armor do the tanking and his skills do the damage, a caster would use his magic to become his armor. That said, only GWs actually has some builds for casters where they can reduce damage done to them on a grand scale. In games like EQ and WoW, defensive caster buffs give a few more hp, but dosnt impact their armor rating and reduce damage, and as you said weapons just rip right through them.



Saddly both WoW and GW have the stupid logic that all melee should get a sprint type ability as well as "snares", both wich are generaly unremoveable by spells/damage because they are non-magic, and at the same time the caster dosnt have sprint (or its unusable after snare) and HIS method of snare is broken by some type of damage.

Both intercept and charge can easily be countered, casters are a extremely difficult battle for warriors, a skilled caster can quite easily attempt to hold a warrior at bay.

jeffmd
05-24-06, 02:00 PM
vampire, no, intercept/charge + hamstring = screwed. A mage might beable to blink, but hes still snared. Priest and warlocks have zero available spells to combat warriors once charged. Priest can prolong the encounter with shield and heals, but he is doing no damage and will eventually run out of mana.

Tr1cK
05-24-06, 02:09 PM
Mage has frost nova and other chill effects to stop/snare the warrior. Priests and Locks HAVE to rely on fear or seduction. Intercept has the same cooldown as blink also. With my warrior, I'll beat the brakes off any priest or lock that doesn't fear me, and even then warriors do get a couple fear breaks. It all depends on how well the class is played and also the gear you have. Warriors that don't stance dance are as good as dead.

vampireuk
05-24-06, 02:29 PM
Mage has frost nova and other chill effects to stop/snare the warrior.

Exactly, for a warrior to beat a good mage the warrior has to have a lot of skill and some bloody good kit to take the caster down quickly.

Rakeesh
05-30-06, 03:55 AM
Best for PVP? Shadowbane IMO. It recently went free too.

Shadowbane is completely PVP. You don't do random quests like "collect 5 magic clovers and bring them to me" or "kill the uber bad guy" or "save the princess of sh*tdom" type bullsh*t. That stuff *kind of* exists in shadowbane but you can completely ignore it if you want to, and I do ignore it because I don't really care about that. Going around killing mobs is stupid, I like killing players better, and thats what shadowbane is all about.

How successful you are in the game depends entirely upon your guild; you alone can accomplish nothing. In fact, if you just run off on your own you'll likely get your ass kicked by anybody you run into. You have to build cities, conquer other ones, and take over mines that give your cities resources and gold. That said there are real-time strategy elements involved in it.

Currently my nation (called Even Better, allied with Entropy and Kingdom of Heaven nations) is owning the Wrath server :D We're so successful right now that we are kinda seen as the bad guys on the server, and almost all of the other guilds and nations (even the ones that don't really like each other) are kinda ganging up on us right now, but we are still kicking their asses anyways.

Well, I havn't seen PVP in action. But Vanguard looks to be an awesome game. The developer (Brad) has stated that there will be at LEAST 1 PVP Server with a special PVP ruleset. So far it is said you will be able to attack anyone, anywhere, wich sounds kinda like what the OP wanted..

That is pretty much what shadowbane is. There are only like 5 really small peace zones on the server I play on, and I don't imagine the others are much different. Almost the entire server consists of PVP areas.

|MaguS|
05-30-06, 04:04 AM
Shadowbane is one of the worse MMOs ever created... and it will be dead soon. The developers have closed shop, I dout Ubisoft will keep it afloat for too much longer.

Rakeesh
05-30-06, 04:09 AM
Shadowbane is one of the worse MMOs ever created... and it will be dead soon. The developers have closed shop, I dout Ubisoft will keep it afloat for too much longer.

It's going to go on for a while. The developers have recently undergone a new management is all. They have actually hinted on another expansion.

You probably don't like shadowbane because of how dedicated to PVP it is. Pretty much everybody who plays it and doesn't like it is because they are after that lore bullsh*t where all you do is roleplay with a bunch of people you don't even know, and everybody and their mom is a f*cking carebear. There are no carebears in shadowbane.

|MaguS|
05-30-06, 04:21 AM
Actually Wolfpack studios is dead, but many of the team went off and created Stray Bullet Games which is now a third party developer, unlike wolfpack which was owned by Ubisoft.

SBG will keep Shadowbane alive untill Ubisoft kills it. SBG does not own none of the IP or Copyrights that are tied to the game. They are basically keeping it alive to please the remaining 10 players.

Don't give me none of that carebear BS, if the game had such great PVP it wouldn't have failed so horribly. From day one it was plagued with problems and even know it suffers many horrible issues. The PVP system is boring and the world is just as boring. Its empty and just dull. Sure its pure PVP but when the game looks like dog **** and plays like it, The best PVP in the world cant save it.

The best PVP title is Lineage 2, It has Faction wars, a good PVE and a legit penalty system for griefers. The engine is stable enough for 500+ player wars and castle sieges.