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Mike89
05-16-06, 01:21 AM
I sure don't like the way Nvidia puts all these useless game profiles in and not have a simple delete button in the control panel to get rid of them. What were they thinking doing something stupid like this?

I searched and found the way to edit that xml file in the system32 folder but that is plain a pain in the ass to have to do it with each new driver install. Someone should get a petition going to nvidia to fix this. Anyone know an email link to them? I want to give them my two cents about this. It's just plain dumb.

SLippe
05-16-06, 01:25 AM
Yeah, I've never understood them either. I wish I could get rid of them as well.

Elvin Presler
05-16-06, 02:01 AM
I don't like it either, so...I edit the nvapps.xml file that has them all to this before I install the driver (you can do it after too by editing it in "C:\Windows\System32")


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<FILE>
<INFO Number="2082769210"/>
<PROFILESET>
<PROFILE Label="z-dummy">
<APPLICATION Label="z-dummy.exe"/>
</PROFILE>
</PROFILESET>
</FILE>


Note: z-dummy is just a dummy exe place holder.

SLippe
05-16-06, 03:21 AM
I don't like it either, so...I edit the nvapps.xml file that has them all to this before I install the driver (you can do it after too by editing it in "C:\Windows\System32")


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<FILE>
<INFO Number="2082769210"/>
<PROFILESET>
<PROFILE Label="z-dummy">
<APPLICATION Label="z-dummy.exe"/>
</PROFILE>
</PROFILESET>
</FILE>


Note: z-dummy is just a dummy exe place holder.
Have you had any problems with games using this?

grey_1
05-16-06, 03:42 AM
I don't like it either, so...I edit the nvapps.xml file that has them all to this before I install the driver (you can do it after too by editing it in "C:\Windows\System32")


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<FILE>
<INFO Number="2082769210"/>
<PROFILESET>
<PROFILE Label="z-dummy">
<APPLICATION Label="z-dummy.exe"/>
</PROFILE>
</PROFILESET>
</FILE>


Note: z-dummy is just a dummy exe place holder.


Sweet, thanks man

agentkay
05-16-06, 04:28 AM
I read once that game profiles include game specific optimizations. When you delete them and experience a performance loss and/or visual issues afterwards, then youŽll know that game profiles are necessary. Anyway, feel free to post your experience with this

Greg
05-16-06, 04:48 AM
The game profiles you see are not for game specific optimization but to match game requirements or assumptions made during development. The classic examples are limiting negative LOD that was a fad aimed at increasing texture resolution (I'm thinking of you Battlefield 1942), but instead made for the shimmering effect talked about in this forum, and old games that rely on texel origin in a non standard location (I'm thinking of early UT). The Doom one, for example, tries to prevent system wide application of AA/AF overrides from interfering with the game specific settings.

I wouldn't complain about these game profiles at all, instead I'm happy I can add my own ones. I'd be happier still if developers listened to MS and nVidia, who for years have said to put full options in game and not rely on users applying inefficient overrides for such things as AA/AF. (A developer, for example, can efficiently apply AA to specific render buffers, or AF to specific texture stages where it matters, rather than the user forcing it on across the whole app, creating new visual issues, or degrading performance unnecessarily.)

nekrosoft13
05-16-06, 06:30 AM
haha, no offense but this thread is funny

game profiles are required for SLI, and other special functions, and they are not gonna remove them.

profiles determine if game will use SFR, AFR, AFR2, or any other optimization to run well in DUAL GPU mode.

OWA
05-16-06, 07:49 AM
Yeah, they're needed for a lot of games to function correctly. I do usually end up deleting the ones for games that I don't have or never intend to buy though. I'm fine with editing the file since it only takes a couple of minutes.

If you use nHancer, it lets you delete them (or hide them).

Mr. Nice
05-16-06, 11:12 AM
The classic examples are limiting negative LOD that was a fad aimed at increasing texture resolution (I'm thinking of you Battlefield 1942), but instead made for the shimmering effect talked about in this forum, and old games that rely on texel origin in a non standard location (I'm thinking of early UT).Another historically important one was disabling conformant texture clamping in Q3 engine games, without which seaming at the edge of textures sometimes showed up.

rewt
05-16-06, 01:52 PM
I don't get it. Why delete all of the profiles when they quite possibly make games run smoother and more enjoyable to play? Sounds like a silly idea to me... Not to mention a waste of time...

Oh and BTW noone is forcing you to use the profiles to store custom settings for each game. You can still change the Global Settings if you want. Very similar to how the old Detonator drivers used to work..

Elvin Presler
05-16-06, 06:44 PM
Have you had any problems with games using this?

None.

I don't use SLI, but if I did, I imagine I would still rather create my own profiles than some ugly "optimized" thing Nvidia made. Anyway, this is just what I do for my plain old 6800GT so all my games run in high quality and not who knows what from some profile. Take it or leave it.

The z-dummy thing is just a dummy profile, since at least one is required for some reason. Beyond that, if you want your games using anything other than the global profile, you can set it up how YOU want it instead of having 87 profiles for crap you never will install anyway.

grey_1
05-16-06, 07:10 PM
None.

I don't use SLI, but if I did, I imagine I would still rather create my own profiles than some ugly "optimized" thing Nvidia made. Anyway, this is just what I do for my plain old 6800GT so all my games run in high quality and not who knows what from some profile. Take it or leave it.

The z-dummy thing is just a dummy profile, since at least one is required for some reason. Beyond that, if you want your games using anything other than the global profile, you can set it up how YOU want it instead of having 87 profiles for crap you never will install anyway.

As of this morning, FEAR, Doom3, hl2, SSse, and Painkiller, smooth as a babies bottom. I don't think games access the profiles unless specifically directed to do so by the user. I personally don't mind having all the profiles in place so I can determine if I want afr, sfr or whatever applied to a particular game, but I don't seeme to be suffering ill effects or IQ without em.

EverGreen
05-16-06, 07:22 PM
I don't get it. Why delete all of the profiles when they quite possibly make games run smoother and more enjoyable to play? Sounds like a silly idea to me... Not to mention a waste of time...

Did you actually use them rewt ?
Well i never used them anyways they been there for nothing on my system, even there is no updating of new games and if you invoke some new ones on your own, you'll never knowns what behavior or settings they needed and been odd when they release an afterwards update while the game already been played out for 50x times with all the patches...
I found this a kind of waste inside this Nvidia drivers, i'll hope that they soon will implement a new detection system for the most ideal settings of the game based on the hardware Rig or Oc'ed PC, then it will have some advancement included.

:D

Mike89
05-16-06, 07:39 PM
I don't get it. Why delete all of the profiles when they quite possibly make games run smoother and more enjoyable to play? Sounds like a silly idea to me... Not to mention a waste of time...

According to who? You? What's a waste of time to me is having useless (to me) un-needed and/or unwanted profiles that I can't delete. I want ownership of my game settings. I want in there what I want to be there. Nothing more, nothing less. Having to view down all those profiles to see which ones I put in is a waste of time. Also, sometimes you might just install a game and play it. You might not want a particular profile that might not suit your tastes (or your system's taste) executed without you knowing about it. Even if I was going to use an existing Nvidia chosen game profile, I would still have to take the time to view all the setting to see if I wanted it like Nvidia did. That's a waste of time, might as well just build it from scratch myself. I don't want Nvidia setting ANYTHING for me. I'm quite capable of doing this myself. I just think it's a bad setup, and could have been done differently. I hate this "dumb down" approach of thinking this stuff has to be there for the okey dokes who don't know what the hell they're doing. At least if Nvidia is going to put them there, provide an option to delete them if not wanted.

To me this is just as bad as ATI's screwy ccc control panel (having to use Net Framework). I am happy to have this vid card I just bought (sig below) after going through 2 generations of owning ATI cards. Sure don't like this game profile stuff from Nvidia though. I guess I'm pretty spoiled from using ATT Tray tools for awhile. It's light years ahead of what Nvidia has.

nekrosoft13
05-16-06, 07:46 PM
these profiles mostly just set the correct SLI profile!, they don't lower your AA, they don't lower AF, they don't change anything, unless you set them to

have you even looked thru them

OWA
05-16-06, 07:57 PM
The game profiles are a godsend and definitely something that gives Nvidia an advantage over ATI. If you have trouble using notepad and editing a file, get nHancer. It makes it easy to delete/hide them.


have you even looked thru them
It makes you wonder if they even know what they're for. They're such a simple concept. It allows you to have custom settings for every game and no need to revisit the CP and change some global setting constantly. I use the profiles for every game I have, mainly setting AA, AF, GAA and TAA since I can't use the same settings for every game.

Along with that, Nvidia will sometimes set various options that are needed to make the game run correctly. Like in Halo, they keep you from trying to apply AA. In games like Doom 3 where it's better to use the in-game AF, they keep you from forcing it in the CP. etc. etc.

But, if you don't want to use them, just use the global setting. I guess I don't see what the problem is.

Peoples-Agent
05-17-06, 02:37 AM
WTF, too many crack smokers about.

Get rid of profiles ...LMFAO...

SLI would be deemed utter useless without them.

SLippe
05-17-06, 02:44 AM
The game profiles are a godsend and definitely something that gives Nvidia an advantage over ATI. If you have trouble using notepad and editing a file, get nHancer. It makes it easy to delete/hide them.


It makes you wonder if they even know what they're for. They're such a simple concept. It allows you to have custom settings for every game and no need to revisit the CP and change some global setting constantly. I use the profiles for every game I have, mainly setting AA, AF, GAA and TAA since I can't use the same settings for every game.

Along with that, Nvidia will sometimes set various options that are needed to make the game run correctly. Like in Halo, they keep you from trying to apply AA. In games like Doom 3 where it's better to use the in-game AF, they keep you from forcing it in the CP. etc. etc.

But, if you don't want to use them, just use the global setting. I guess I don't see what the problem is.
Question; I set my Global Settings to how I want them, then try to match them as closely as possible in the game settings. Like I have my AA set to 8xS, but in BF2, it only goes to 4x. So, if there is a profile for BF2, what AA is it using? I guess I don't understand when a game uses the profile, when it uses the global setting and when it uses the in-game settings. 3 choices? Odd.

nekrosoft13
05-17-06, 06:11 AM
Question; I set my Global Settings to how I want them, then try to match them as closely as possible in the game settings. Like I have my AA set to 8xS, but in BF2, it only goes to 4x. So, if there is a profile for BF2, what AA is it using? I guess I don't understand when a game uses the profile, when it uses the global setting and when it uses the in-game settings. 3 choices? Odd.

if you don't alter BF2 profile, it will use global settings

OWA
05-17-06, 08:04 AM
Question; I set my Global Settings to how I want them, then try to match them as closely as possible in the game settings. Like I have my AA set to 8xS, but in BF2, it only goes to 4x. So, if there is a profile for BF2, what AA is it using? I guess I don't understand when a game uses the profile, when it uses the global setting and when it uses the in-game settings. 3 choices? Odd.
It's very flexible so yeah, there are a lot of ways you can do things.

For example, say 95% of the time you want to force 4xAA/8xAF to be used. You could set the global settings to 4xAA/8xAF and those settings will be forced. But, you have 2 or 3 games that just don't run well at 4xAA/8xAF. In that case, you change the game specific profile for the games that don't run well at 4xAA so that they use 2xAA.

Now that you've set that up, there's no need to use revisit the control panel. The profiles (settings) get activated automatically when the game is launched so once you've set things up, you're done. It can significantly reduce the amount of time you spend changing settings back and forth.

The general order is this: game specific profile settings followed by global profile settings followed by in-game settings.

That is, if you activate an option in the game specific profile, it overrides everything else including global settings and in-game settings. If you don't activate the options in a specific game profile and just use globals, the globals still override the in-game settings. If you don't set the game specific profile options or globals, the in-game settings get used.

|MaguS|
05-17-06, 09:00 AM
I would switch back to ATI if it werent for Profiles and Digital Vibrance... well not really but these two options make me LOVE Nvidia. Profiles are great if you use them, if you don't use them they don't do anything. By default all profiles are set to use your global settings unless YOU change them. Yes Nvidia does set some settings within then but this is done to fix incompatiblities an issues that can be caused by setting the wrong option in the control panel.

Seriously, even if you don't use them... just leave them be. They wont do anything negative at all. I would recommend using them, get nHancer and rock your Nvidia card!

rewt
05-17-06, 02:00 PM
According to who? You? What's a waste of time to me is having useless (to me) un-needed and/or unwanted profiles that I can't delete. I want ownership of my game settings. I want in there what I want to be there. Nothing more, nothing less. Having to view down all those profiles to see which ones I put in is a waste of time.

Fair enough.

Did you actually use them rewt ?

Very rarely do I adjust profile settings. I adjust global settings 99% of the time. But regardless, the built-in profiles come in very handy for any SLI system.

Mike89
05-17-06, 07:27 PM
But, if you don't want to use them, just use the global setting. I guess I don't see what the problem is.

That's not how it works. If there is a game profile there, that's what the game is going to use. This is just what I'm talking about. Game setups are being forced on us when they might not be wanted (is the case for me). Only way to setup the game profile to individual tastes is to go into the game profile (assuming it's there) and change it. Might as well do it from scratch, gotta go into it anyway.

As far as the SLI comments. Like what, 5% of the users have SLI? So gotta have it there for the other 95%? How about Nvidia just provide another tab labled as "SLI" and put the SLI stuff there? Makes sense to me. Dunno why it's so hard for Nvidia to make this more user friendly. Answer is, it's not. It's just the way Nvidia has chosen to do it. Apparently a lot here have no problem with this "not having a choice deal". I do. To each his own I guess. I never did like the "automatic" route. I'd much rather do it myself and have total control.

I emailed them and got a reply. No explanation of why it's the way it is. Just said to delete them go edit that "nvapps.xml" file in the Windows System 32 folder. The same thing that Elvis posted.

OWA
05-17-06, 07:57 PM
That's not how it works. If there is a game profile there, that's what the game is going to use. This is just what I'm talking about. Game setups are being forced on us when they might not be wanted (is the case for me). Only way to setup the game profile to individual tastes is to go into the game profile (assuming it's there) and change it. Might as well do it from scratch, gotta go into it anyway.

That's not correct. The game specific profiles don't have most of the items checked. The global settings are used unless you activate the options in the game specific profile. Just having a profile there doesn't really do anything unless you're an SLI user. That is, most of the time the only option activated is the SLI setting.

To get an idea of how it works. Look at the profiles in the nvapps.xml file that you haven't modified. Normally, they are only like 2 or 3 lines long. Now, using the CP activate a bunch of the options in the profile (i.e. check the boxes for the various options in the profile). Now go back and look at the profiles in the nvapps.xml file. It'll now be several lines long. Without activating the options in the profile, the global settings get used.

So, they're not forced on you. Plenty of users here just use the globals settings for everything.

Here is a quick of example of what I'm talking about with the nvapps file.

Here is the profile for painkiller before I've activated the options:

<PROFILE Label="Painkiller">
<APPLICATION Label="Painkiller.exe"/>
<APPLICATION Label="paingame.exe"/>
<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="2430001" Itemtype="predefined"/>
</PROFILE>

Now here is the profile after I've activated some of the options (I'll just do HQ, AA, AF, GAA, and TAA):

<PROFILE Label="Painkiller">
<APPLICATION Label="Painkiller.exe"/>
<APPLICATION Label="paingame.exe"/>
<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="2430001" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="aa_default" Value="0"/>
<PROPERTY Label="af_default" Value="1"/>
<PROPERTY Label="gamma_correct_aa" Value="100000"/>
<PROPERTY Label="image_settings" Value="fffffff6"/>
<PROPERTY Label="sli_aa" Value="51621660"/>
<PROPERTY Label="transparency_aa" Value="40000000"/>
</PROFILE>

See the difference? Before setting the options, there was nothing in the profile to be set for you except for SLI. After I activated several options in the profile, they'll now override the global settings and in-game settings.

Edit: There are some exceptions though. Like Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. With it, they do activate an AA option to prevent you from setting AA through the CP. They do this b/c if you try to use HDR+AA, the game won't function correctly. There area few others like that where they activate a setting or two to make sure the game functions correctly.