Hey GR Talkin, whats with all the propaganda??

[volt]

I agree with you Sean. Though please don't blame yourself for anything. You have done SO much for nVnews, don't forget that ;)

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Mark_fox
Well, hehe, I was posting truth, you cannot argue with the fact that Radeon 9700 Pro from Crucial costs £232.64, though you might argue that:
1. It’s not a good card - it’s not worth £232.64
2. Geforce FX is a bargain so why get Radeon 9700 Pro for 232.64
etc etc...


Ok, so mebbe you're still having a little bit of issues with letting go of the whole nVidiot thing completely...... :rolleyes: (<----and that 'rolleyes' goes out to Poursoul with BIG HUGS! ) ;)

[Yelapaboy]

As a newbie to these forums and an owner in the past of Riva 128, TNT, G200+ V2SLI, V3, G400, V5, GF3, GF4 and 9700 roughly in that order. I think I can safely say I buy what is best for me at the time, as a flight sim enthusiast the poor FSAA of the GF2 and ATI 8500 compared to other cards available at the time were two of the few I never considered. What has put this site on my short list of favorites is its high quality opinions of all hardware and usually excellent news links with pithy comments.

Personally I find FanATIcs as irritating as Nvidiots, perhaps more so now that the disappointing previews of the FX have given them something to crow about, I never read the front page of Rage 3D as I don't like the bias, I don't think the bias of RAGE 3D is all that bad but when hardware news reflects an obvious bias it is not worth reading. I expect NvNews to be enthusiastic about Nvidia's products but infantile fanboy crap such as GR Talkings recent ravings are of the quality that would get attacked in any reasonably balanced forum or discussion group, to have them on the front page along with worthwhile, credible news bits is just sad.

Edit:

It is not so much that Rage3Ds news is biased, it is that they pretty much only bother with ATI specific news that you know about anyhow if you go to any site that has a decent hardware news section. The fact that Rage3D is so ATI specific makes it uninteresting in the extreme, good for tech support type stuff only.

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by Mark_fox
I like nVidia and all that but man, these few posts have really been biased as hell, even the biggest nVidiot would see that...then again, this is nvnews - so maybe the bias should be expected...

Hmmm, now that IS the smartest note here yet. I mean, why call someone a fanboy just cuz they dig nv and took a couple of opportunities to poke the competition? I do dig nvidia. I wish I could dig ATI cuz I live right around the corner from their main complex. I could go dig cards out of their dumpster for free. But, that is where I believe they belong so I leave them their.

I spent well over a thousand dollars last year on ATI cards. I hated that but I could not offer meaningful opinions on any chipset/card configuration without testing them all. Or, at least the ones of import. I did my bit to help a fellow Countryman (countrycompany... whatever). They always let me down in the end as, after the testing is done, the ATI card goes on the shelf and the NVIDIA card goes in my gaming system. Yes, I play games as often as I have time to. I use NVIDIA because it makes gaming hassle-free. End of story.

Back to the matter at hand...

I think it is ridiculous that ATI charges for tech support. Although, I do believe that I know why they do it.

I was not kidding about the drivers team needing money. A friend and I discussed one day a couple years ago how we thought ATI could drag themselves out of the basement. We figured they had to spend a bootful o' cash on a chip/board that was very fast, get it out there and win a race, fix the drivers up as best as they could once the card was already out there, and, take a major $$$ loss on the product. This just so they could make their name stand out as something other than "the bad driver" company. They did this. I couldn't really believe it, but they did. The did nothing revelutionary, BTW. They followed a spec (DX9) that was largely laid out by others, they used a 256 (expensive) memory bus and an existing manufacturing process and they had it.

One could suggest that yes, they are trying to dig back every cent they can get their mitts on. One might also suggest that a company with buggy drivers could either A: spend a ton on support, or B: claw back a ton on support. In the end, the user is not paying for what it cost to R&D and build the card, then perhaps they should feel OK about paying a little to maintain it. Not a bad arguement. However, I would rather just "psssst, hey Buddy, BUY NVIDIA".

I don't mind being called a fanatic/fanboy/nvidiot. I mean seriously, how could that matter? I would have to a real whining little baby to have that even make an impression on me.

I dig NVIDIA.

I dig their video cards.

I think when I do my first review here at nvnews you will also see that, nvidiot or not, I will give all comers a fair shake and I will be honest. If I want to have a little fun on the news page and poke ATI a bit, who really cares. Better question, why would anyone care as much as some folks seem to?

Relax, some of you take yourselves and the whole video card thing way, way to seriously.

Peace

GR Talkin

[pelly]

Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by pelly
Using the BFG vs. ATI post as an example, we find that all the major ATI-vendors have been ignored. When making such a bold statement, you should always cover all bases to avoid the "fanboy" stigma.


Allow me to print for you here a couple of e-mail exchanges on this very subject if you will...

from a reader:

"You'r post simply implies that if customers buy ATI cards they need to pay for Tech support and its simplynot true...

GR Talkin':

I'm sorry but if consumers buy ATI cards, the do have to pay for tech support. It is true. Some models of ATI cards offer 30 days free then you pay. I did not mention anything about cards from 3rd party manufacturers.

If I had said the customers who buy cards based on ATI GPUs have to pay that would be misleading. I am well aware that 3rd parties may offer their own unique and completely independent tech support solutions. This is why I did not say, "If you buy an "ATI" card or a "Powered by ATI" card you have to pay for tech support.".

If, because I did not specifically note the policies of ATI's manufacturing partners, a reader should come to the conclusion that tech support from those companies also must be paid for, then it is not I who have mislead the reader but rather the reader has misled him or herself by making assumptions about something that I did not even mention.

Peace

GR


And then there was this guy...

"Did you look on nvidia's web site to see how much their support was? Guess what there is none. At lease ATI has support for their products and their 3d party vendors."

GR Talkin'

NVIDIA does not sell video cards. They sell no consumer goods, as a matter of fact. What they do do however, is tech support the people who buy their products. Those people being add-in-board, motherboard and game console manufacturers. Their customers are the only people they are beholden to.

ATI sells video cards to end users and then charges them for tech support after a free grace period (if one is included with the particular model).

I am not sure what point it is you are trying to make.

Peace

GR


Hmmm, I am not sure I failed to make a complete and meaningful post about this matter. Just because I was very obviously poking ATI in th eye with a sharp stick I am accused of somehow shoddy journalism and/or of being a fanboy. OK, I can handle it. And, if peeps around here wanna flame me I am down with that. But, you best have your poop in a group. I do love a good scrap. ;)

Also, if I find another mainstream video card manufacturer doing the same thing, I will poke them too. Go ahead, find me one and I'll do it.

Also, they may well have to offer support for 3rd party vendors as part of the sales agreement when the chips head out the dorr. It isn't like the 3rd parties don't know how much they may have to spend on tech supporting ATI's products.

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by pelly
Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...

I would not do that Pelly :)

I am a complete newb in forums tho so be patient. If I miss something please point it out rather directly. I may not find what it is that you refer to quickly enough. I will try tho...

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by pelly
Given your response, you might want to back-up a page and re-read ( or perhaps read for the first time ) my post...

Then again, you could just ignore it...

Or, are you being sarcastic there? If so, don't bother, I will not respond to sarcasm if and when I see it.

[The Baron]

Just calm it down with the flamebait... at least for now. ;) People just wonder because they A. don't know who you are and B. it's your first post.

And believe me, you do NOT have to try to piss people off. ;)

[Venom]

Since you're new to the forums, let me point out that there is something called an edit button. If you can't use your brain, at least try using that.

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by The Baron
Just calm it down with the flamebait... at least for now. ;) People just wonder because they A. don't know who you are and B. it's your first post.

And believe me, you do NOT have to try to piss people off. ;)

I do not know what "flame bait" is. You mean my news posts or my forum posts?

[The Baron]

News posts. The ATI tech support post, in particular.

And I hope to God that MX performance quote was taken out of context.

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by Venom
Since you're new to the forums, let me point out that there is something called an edit button. If you can't use your brain, at least try using that.

Venom, you will never receive another response from me. End of story.

[Venom]

Promise?

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by The Baron
News posts. The ATI tech support post, in particular.

And I hope to God that MX performance quote was taken out of context.

Why the tech support post? Don't you think it is ridiculous to have to pay for tech support? I think the comparison was indeed the best way to illustrate how ridiculous I thought ATI's approach is and how awesome BFG's is.

The MX card quote:

Nope, when I tested that card, it was the fastest card for the money available. Bar none.

[The Baron]

Why the tech support post? Don't you think it is ridiculous to have to pay for tech support? I think the comparison was indeed the best way to illustrate how ridiculous I thought ATI's approach is and how awesome BFG's is.Yeah.. fair enough. But how is it news? It's not, really--that's the kind of thing that should be included in a review of a BFG or ATI card. And I think this is where the problem lies--it seems to have nothing to do with anything, and as a result, it pissed people off.

And OK, for a $80 card, the MX is the fastest thing out there (at least in Q3A).

[Solomon]

You're wrong GR Talkin, Nvidia does sell products. They sell shirts, mugs, and mousepads! LOL! Hahaha. :p

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

P.S. A word of advice. Unless MikeC says otherwise. Post what's on your mind and who cares about the people who seem to complain what you say. I for one enjoy your posts. You have character and don't take ***** from no one. At least you aren't another mindless droid who just posts links! Any monkey with diapers can do that. If for reasons you aren't liked there. Shoot me an email. :D

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by The Baron
Yeah.. fair enough. But how is it news? It's not, really--that's the kind of thing that should be included in a review of a BFG or ATI card. And I think this is where the problem lies--it seems to have nothing to do with anything, and as a result, it pissed people off.

And OK, for a $80 card, the MX is the fastest thing out there (at least in Q3A).

Well, it was news to me and it may news to someone who is thinking of buying an ATI card. And, important news at that, don't ya think?

[Venom]

Have an honest question for you GR. Have you actually tried calling both to see how they compare? Or are you basing your conclusion on what each website says? I can offer you 24/7/365 tech support for free, for every part in your computer, from any company, hell even support for your car, tv, microwave, and dvd player, but if the number is always busy and my vision of support (once you can reach the support) is telling you to visit the manufactorers website and then promtly hanging up, how good of tech support is it then? My point is, there's more to comparing tech support than looking at the companies website and seeing what kind of tech support is stated.

Personally, I rather pay for tech support (not that I have ever in my life called or needed tech support) and get a quick fix/solution, then have free tech support that sends me running around in circles for 2 weeks before getting anywhere. Anyone else agree?

[GR Talkin]

Originally posted by Solomon
You're wrong GR Talkin, Nvidia does sell products. They sell shirts, mugs, and mousepads! LOL! Hahaha. :p

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

P.S. A word of advice. Unless MikeC says otherwise. Post what's on your mind and who cares about the people who seem to complain what you say. I for one enjoy your posts. You have character and don't take ***** from no one. At least you aren't another mindless droid who just posts links! Any monkey with diapers can do that. If for reasons you aren't liked there. Shoot me an email. :D

If NVIDA starts charging for support in their tee shirts, then they are bras! And they should charge more. I dunno if you are married but I am and I know those puppies cost a bunch!

[GR Talkin]

Well folks, I think I was successful on my first day at nVNews. At the very least, Im earned a bit about our readers and what they may or may not enjoy reading and/or wish to see on the news page.

I have been sniffing about the net for fun stuff and had some success. I will be back in the AM to do some more Talkin'. Trust me.

Until then,

Peace - Out

GR

[The Baron]

Originally posted by GR Talkin
If NVIDA starts charging for support in their tee shirts, then they are bras! And they should charge more. I dunno if you are married but I am and I know those puppies cost a bunch! That's the best thing I've heard all day. :p

[AshG]

Sorry, chiming in late on this one...

I didn't find the "support pricing" post to reflective of what I've come to expect from nVNews. The posting mannerism, style, and closure suggest an intentional and pointed slant not in favor of but in attack of a company. Yes, this is a fan site; however, that should not mean that the news postings should be visceral and meant to give certain low-ego readers a catharsis.

I'm not going to suggest or tell anyone how their job should be done. But, I've been in the business too. I still am in the business. I know effective writing when I see it. Yes, your post was effective - but it was also negatively affective. I can understand where it is within the site's goals to have a pro-nVidia stance, but it is clearly not in the best interests of anyone involved to take an anti-ATI stance. The devil's in the details, yes it is.

Now GR, I know you probably don't know me; several people here do, and they know I tend to write like a radio repair manual. Don't take this personally. Just realise that as long as you have access to the NewsPoster interface, you have a responsibility to each and every reader to post news that will positively affect the purchase and usage of certain graphics card (and now motherboard) products. Slanting facts, even resulting in accidental misrepresentation, is not the way to do this.

This isn't what I've come to expect from nVNews. I know this place from the inside out - that post wasn't nV quality.

[-=Gib-McFragger=-]

I couldn't agree more Ash. There are ways of saying how good item 'A' is without trashing item 'B'. That is what true journalism is, and it's hard. I also have been haunting nV News for several years and know pretty well what the site is about and what MikeC tries to do with it. It IS a nVidia 'fan site', if I must use those words, but that doesn't mean that it is a biased site.

GR's posts however scream fanboy, and I think if he continues to post that way, he will hurt both the credibility of nV News AND of MikeC.

[pelly]

GR's posts however scream fanboy, and I think if he continues to post that way, he will hurt both the credibility of nV News AND of MikeC

I couldn't agree more with Gib and Ash...looks like the veterans are all sharing the same opinion....I wish Mike would offer some insight...

:ORDER: