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Nv40
06-02-06, 12:38 AM
Toriyama and Versus producer Shinji Hashimoto defended the decision to release FFXIII on the PS3.

According to Hashimoto, the development staff determined that one DVD would not be enough for the type of visual expression they were attempting to make. Toriyama noted that, regarding visual expression, the PS3's shader abilities are a big factor.

Interesting the game was planned for Ps2 ,but after testing the new shaders capabilities in the PS3 and its new s.torage media capabilties (b.luray) they simply could not turn back .. after all the quality content and graphics they saw they could achieve for their game in the Ps3. Perhaps a sign of things to come with others developers working in next generation titles ? if more developers push their technology to the PS3 limits ,this will indeed turn to be a major obstacle for a multi-platform release. specially for the bigger japanese studios .

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710761p1.html

it looks that the predictions about the needs of next generation media storage for future games were right after all.

discuss...

Bad_Boy
06-02-06, 12:51 AM
cue in the sony haters who think this is pr from ken kutaragi himself and not square enix...

cue in the ones who think FXIII will be 99% fmv cut scenes....

cue in the ones who will flame nv40 for simply posting a news article, just because hes nv40...

/thread ;)

Edge
06-02-06, 12:59 AM
Err, why would that matter? They've released 4 disc games in the PS1 era, why couldn't they release a 2 disc game in the current one? The PS2 has already seen it's share of multi-disc games, so I don't see what would be a big deal about releasing a Final Fantasy game that's on 2 discs. Shadow Hearts Covenant is still one of my favorite from this generation.

PeterJensen
06-02-06, 01:30 AM
la la la la la thats all i can hear when nv40 speak...

LiquidX
06-02-06, 01:31 AM
Absolutely a ridiculous excuse on why they wont support the 360 with anything other than crap, especially ridiculous for a company which has released many of there best RPGs in the PS1 era on multiple disks. They should just be upfront and say they wont support the 360 because Sony pays them well or because it is not doing well in Japan. That excuse is pure rubbish when you take into account that both the XBox and PS2 used DVD and they still did support the XBox.

Zelda_fan
06-02-06, 01:53 AM
ahhhh

what would the console section be without good ol NV40

Nv40
06-02-06, 02:01 AM
Err, why would that matter? They've released 4 disc games in the PS1 era, why couldn't they release a 2 disc game in the current one? The PS2 has already seen it's share of multi-disc games, so I don't see what would be a big deal about releasing a Final Fantasy game that's on 2 discs. Shadow Hearts Covenant is still one of my favorite from this generation.


There are many cases where you cant simply split the data and just add another dvd Disc . that was true in the past with old generation games ,based in discrete worlds. that you simply could play the games in very linear and predictable style . Where you start in a to b and later c. More newer games requires seamless worlds require that you explore worlds in a more fluid arbitrary way. The more and more games ships with streamed worlds ,those without (loading levels X or Y screens) continuos worlds with *non repetitive data* where the data needs to be streamed on the fly . for example if the data need to be accesed in game ramdomly on the fly , that data can be Hq textures ,enviroments, special effects, and sound ..for example .. if you will like to see a next generation oblivion with twice the quality textures ,and twice its variety ,it will take easily more than twice the storage space of the original game and its not practical for gaming if you need to change to DVD #2 and #1 every time you need to enter or leave a city or you cross an invicible line in the map . And games shipping in multi DVD's many times needs to replicate a significant part of their previous data to the second DVD , in other words a big waste of space . Things looks more and more clear everytime that storage space needs will be a lot alot more higher than previous generation. there are already the comments of others multi platform developers about their concerns with media storage. and it will be a nightmare if not impossible for developers working with multi-platform non-linear games . if their games are required also to be played without a hardisk or a high definiton media.

Edge
06-02-06, 03:01 AM
if you will like to see a next generation oblivion with twice the quality textures ,and twice the variety it will take easily more than twice the storage space of the original game

Which would be perfect, because Oblivion took up 4.5GB of space, which happens to be almost exactly half of what a DVD-9 can hold. Although I think your math is a little wrong: twice the textures and twice the variety equals MORE than twice the space? 1+1 = more than 2?

Not that it really matters, since it's doubtful a non-linear game would need more than what a DVD could hold anyway as their data takes up a relatively minor amount of space. Most of the excessive storage space in games is from pre-rendered video and cutscenes such as those in Final Fantasy games, making it a perfect candidate for splitting onto multiple discs. Again, see Shadow Hearts Covenant. Even then though, since games with non-linear world structure like Oblivion took 4 years to develop and still only manage to fill half a DVD, it's doubtful we'll see games of that type get much larger in the coming generation.

And really now, PC games are still being shipped on CD-ROMs, they're JUST NOW starting to make DVDs standard. The chance that a developer would make a multiplatform game that wouldn't even fit on a single DVD on a PC is pretty minimal.

Zelda_fan
06-02-06, 03:07 AM
Which would be perfect, because Oblivion took up 4.5GB of space, which happens to be almost exactly half of what a DVD-9 can hold. Although I think your math is a little wrong: twice the textures and twice the variety equals MORE than twice the space? 1+1 = more than 2?

Not that it really matters, since it's doubtful a non-linear game would need more than what a DVD could hold anyway as their data takes up a relatively minor amount of space. Most of the excessive storage space in games is from pre-rendered video and cutscenes such as those in Final Fantasy games, making it a perfect candidate for splitting onto multiple discs. Again, see Shadow Hearts Covenant. Even then though, since games with non-linear world structure like Oblivion took 4 years to develop and still only manage to fill half a DVD, it's doubtful we'll see games of that type get much larger in the coming generation.

And really now, PC games are still being shipped on CD-ROMs, they're JUST NOW starting to make DVDs standard. The chance that a developer would make a multiplatform game that wouldn't even fit on a single DVD on a PC is pretty minimal.

U are forgetting. Oblibvin's grafix suxed. It was not truHD as the textures where extremely low-rez in far out distances. The ar-tists were handicaped because of the limited DVD spacez. Teh PS3 will bring teh dawn of truHD to the masses. The eXtra-large sizes of blueAY dicsks will allow for developers to truly capitolize on truHD textures and GAMing.

All devs will follow suite, and allow games for superior grafix on the PS3, which will lead = to more exclusive games on the PS3.

Bad_Boy
06-02-06, 03:21 AM
to be fair, its not just square enix praising blu-ray. kinda makes it funny so many are hating on blu-ray as a gimmick. i guess if gimmicks make the devs happy, then by all means...

;)

msxyz
06-02-06, 03:27 AM
Nowhere does the articles say anything about the Xbox360. The comparison was between the PS2 (the platform on which FF XIII development started) and PS3.

FF XIII was a playtstation title from the start; it just went from the PS2 to the PS3 for the better. I don't think Square ever considered for a moment bringing FF XIII to the Xbox: Bluray or not, they have too many ties with Sony.

As for fanboys making a fuss on internet forums, well... if 360 had HD-DVD and Sony had gone with DVD9, Final Fantasy would still likely be on PS3 and fanboys answer would have been "they don't need HD-DVD, DVD can simply span more disks with less cost".

pakotlar
06-02-06, 04:25 AM
Nowhere does the articles say anything about the Xbox360. The comparison was between the PS2 (the platform on which FF XIII development started) and PS3.

FF XIII was a playtstation title from the start; it just went from the PS2 to the PS3 for the better. I don't think Square ever considered for a moment bringing FF XIII to the Xbox: Bluray or not, they have too many ties with Sony.

As for fanboys making a fuss on internet forums, well... if 360 had HD-DVD and Sony had gone with DVD9, Final Fantasy would still likely be on PS3 and fanboys answer would have been "they don't need HD-DVD, DVD can simply span more disks with less cost".

And if they had gone X360 it would have been :
" Sony's shader tech wasn't good enough for us to express our REAL creative vision. Only Microsoft and its revolutionary unified shader architecture gives us the flexibility to envision the Final Fantasy that we at Square have always wanted to make."

and then, on the next line, instead of a mention about DVD9 they would say:
"Steve Ballmer gives great oral."
(nana2)

Toss3
06-02-06, 05:04 AM
U are forgetting. Oblibvin's grafix suxed. It was not truHD as the textures where extremely low-rez in far out distances. The ar-tists were handicaped because of the limited DVD spacez. Teh PS3 will bring teh dawn of truHD to the masses. The eXtra-large sizes of blueAY dicsks will allow for developers to truly capitolize on truHD textures and GAMing.

All devs will follow suite, and allow games for superior grafix on the PS3, which will lead = to more exclusive games on the PS3.
Let me just say *hrrhhm* ps2 with dvd support - they could have gone cd, but no they chose DVD and see where that lead us? :rolleyes: Bringing new technology that allows developers to add extra content on one disc isn't bad at all. I can't understand why you would even say anything different. Bluray > DVD! Bluray=HD-DVD! And please stop writing you're posts in 1337-speak, it's irritating and makes you look childish.

Which would be perfect, because Oblivion took up 4.5GB of space, which happens to be almost exactly half of what a DVD-9 can hold. Although I think your math is a little wrong: twice the textures and twice the variety equals MORE than twice the space? 1+1 = more than 2?

You're correct here; I don't think two DVDs or a dual-layer dvd would have been too small for FFXIII. They just said that the content wouldn't fit on a single DVD.

Danhill
06-02-06, 05:14 AM
And if they had gone X360 it would have been :
" Sony's shader tech wasn't good enough for us to express our REAL creative vision. Only Microsoft and its revolutionary unified shader architecture gives us the flexibility to envision the Final Fantasy that we at Square have always wanted to make."

and then, on the next line, instead of a mention about DVD9 they would say:
"Steve Ballmer gives great oral."
(nana2)

(rofl2)

Toss3
06-02-06, 05:30 AM
And really now, PC games are still being shipped on CD-ROMs, they're JUST NOW starting to make DVDs standard. The chance that a developer would make a multiplatform game that wouldn't even fit on a single DVD on a PC is pretty minimal.

Every game that I've bought in the past four years have been on DVD, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

saturnotaku
06-02-06, 06:07 AM
Every game that I've bought in the past four years have been on DVD, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

He's talking about North America. Most stuff is still released on CD over here.

Toss3
06-02-06, 06:12 AM
He's talking about North America. Most stuff is still released on CD over here.
You're still using cds? :eek2: I'm not sure I could find a game on cd here, even if I wanted to. But still, most of the world still uses DVDs and not CDs.

Edge
06-02-06, 06:26 AM
You're still using cds? :eek2: I'm not sure I could find a game on cd here, even if I wanted to. But still, most of the world still uses DVDs and not CDs.

Pretty much the opposite of what it's like over here. Virtually every game is on CDs by standard, with usually collectors/special editions having a DVD version. We don't even have a DVD version of games like Far Cry.

slick
06-02-06, 06:33 AM
Square Enix is just being bought off by Sony to say that. The last what, 6 FF games have been multi-disk? They are obviously familiar with it and probably have no problem with doing it. Yeah, their "visual expression" needs a lot space. AKA they get off on the idea that they can put HOURS of CGI movies on a single disk! Oh, and this thread was posted by Nv40, so who cares anyways?


(Happy Bad-Boy? :D)

vampireuk
06-02-06, 06:35 AM
Do the requirements to be a console fan-boy include "must have firm grasp of the English language up to the level of a sack of potatoes".

|MaguS|
06-02-06, 08:13 AM
Do the requirements to be a console fan-boy include "must have firm grasp of the English language up to the level of a sack of potatoes".

No, It's just Nv40.

Seriously, this thread makes my head hurt.

As for the whole Multiple disc argument, I prefer a single disc over tons of others... previous FFs required multiple discs because of the FMV, not the actual game content (thats why in FF7 you could go to previous areas in the game on disc 4 without swapping back to disc 1). Square-Enix has stated that while there will be FMV in the next Final Fantasy there wont be as large amount like the previous had, More will be realtime.

Zelda_fan
06-02-06, 10:18 AM
Seriously, this thread makes my head hurt.


Im' sry but my head hurts when I think about PS3. The konsole is just 2 powerful, i kant handle it. Teh cell will bring supercomputing 2 the masses and that is just way powerful.

Toss3
06-02-06, 10:57 AM
Im' sry but my head hurts when I think about PS3. The konsole is just 2 powerful, i kant handle it. Teh cell will bring supercomputing 2 the masses and that is just way powerful.
Stop acting so childish all the time; about 50% of your posts are just unnecessary 1337-speak. Nobody(except nv40) has said that the ps3 is a supercomputer, so stop bringing that up. All of us know that the ps3 won't be better than the xbox360 performance wise, so let's forget about that part. We were talking about DVDs not having enough space for nextgen titles and not about performance.
But I've got a question for you - would consider buying a ps3 if it didn't have a bluray player?

aAv7
06-02-06, 11:35 AM
Interesting the game was planned for Ps2 ,but after testing the new shaders capabilities in the PS3 and its new s.torage media capabilties (b.luray) they simply could not turn back .. after all the quality content and graphics they saw they could achieve for their game in the Ps3. Perhaps a sign of things to come with others developers working in next generation titles ? if more developers push their technology to the PS3 limits ,this will indeed turn to be a major obstacle for a multi-platform release. specially for the bigger japanese studios .

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710761p1.html

it looks that the predictions about the needs of next generation media storage for future games were right after all.

discuss...


I dont see what the big deal is? WOW!!! Square figured out that the ps3 is more powerful than the ps2? Bfd....Square has always been exclusive to Sony, nothing changed there.....:: yawn ::

|MaguS|
06-02-06, 11:45 AM
Square has always been exclusive to Sony, nothing changed there.....:: yawn ::

Hmmm

Final Fantasy XI available on PS2, PC and X360
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles on Gamecube Exclusivly
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles 2 making its way to Wii
Final Fantasy I, II, III, IV, V, VI on or making their way to the GBA and DS

Doesn't sound like they develop exclusivly for Sony... Sure the main new console titles are on Sony platforms because well since Final Fantasy VII they have made TONS of money from the Playstation brand (more then the SNES) and Sony even helped them out financially when they took a big hit due to Spirits Within (Sony owns 19% of Square (payed $124 Million), Don't know how this was factored in when they merged with Enix though).