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Retrofire
02-04-03, 11:52 AM
[H]ard|OCP (http://www.hardocp.com/) is reporting that a more recent revision of the FX they've received only spins up the fan in 3D mode.

On the downside, while nVidia claims otherwise, in 3D mode, FlowFX is still as loud as it was in the (p)reviews that have been popping up.

/shrug

For what its worth...

MuFu
02-04-03, 11:57 AM
Yah, saw that - unfortunately they're just polishing a turd now as far as NV30 is concerned. "Icing on the poop cake", if you like...

j/k ;)

MuFu.

Smokey
02-04-03, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Retrofire
[H]ard|OCP (http://www.hardocp.com/) is reporting that a more recent revision of the FX they've received only spins up the fan in 3D mode.

On the downside, while nVidia claims otherwise, in 3D mode, FlowFX is still as loud as it was in the (p)reviews that have been popping up.

/shrug

For what its worth...

Taken from your link
I gamed for around five hours on Monday with the card installed in my own case and I left the side cover off. The case sits at my feet. I found game play in UT2K3, MOHAA, Wolfenstein, and NFSHP2 to be very playable at 12x10 with 4XAA and 8XAF turned on. BF1942 was acting up on my card but after talking to NVIDIA, I am not sure if it is a driver glitch on their end of a system glitch on my end. Still, it is said to be working great at the NVIDIA labs in Austin, TX. I tend to game with the sound turned on, so I did not find the cooling system on the GFFX Ultra to be an issue at all, but we can all argue about that later.

Now I dont know about you, but I tend to keep the sides of my pc on, I also use headphones when gaming. Regardless if you dont wear headphones, you more than likely play with sound? I think the biggest problem with the noise was that it was loud all the time, from the moment you booted into windows. Now if the cards runs silent when not gaming, where is the problem?

MuFu
02-04-03, 12:15 PM
Because in a nice quiet section of the game all you will hear is *RRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!*.

Perhaps that will also be the case while you are listening to a delicate musical passage with a HAL-assisted visualisation running. :rolleyes:

MuFu.

Retrofire
02-04-03, 12:29 PM
OEM's do seem to be very concerned about that particular issue, and honestly, it would be great if a quieter cooling system could be developed across the board.

Anything to stop the endless inane dustbuster Photoshop hacks. :rolleyes:

If its silent during normal operation, that's a huge start. I have a pretty heavy-duty metal case, and there's an alcove in my desk to accommodate it. If its not that loud while gaming, who knows. I may even keep it. :D

Sazar
02-04-03, 01:54 PM
if it IS running silent in 2d mode.. I wonder what clocks it is @...

is it still @ 300mhz or did that drop lower in order to accomodate the PASSIVE nature of this current iteration...

also would have been nice to see more benchies with newer drivers if they are available :)

perhaps they may have to consider a larger fan that runs @ lower RPM but has around the same cfm...

dammit nvidia... talk to vantec or someone and get it right :)

Phyre
02-04-03, 02:31 PM
Ahhh, technology, technology...gotta love it. If anyone has any problem with the sound of this thing, might I suggest a set of noice cancelling headphones. They shouldn't be that expensive.

I also have my side panels on when gaming, and I have a 7000 rpm delta plus an Abit Siluro Ti4200 OTES in my rig. Loud? Yes. But, I also use headphones when playing (not the noise cancelling ones). Neither of the too noise-makers bother me.

Phyre

T-Spoon
02-04-03, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Smokey
Taken from your link


Now I dont know about you, but I tend to keep the sides of my pc on, I also use headphones when gaming. Regardless if you dont wear headphones, you more than likely play with sound?

I play games like Morrowind without the backgroundmusic, because it irritates me after a while. But I bet the dustbustersound of the FX gets even more annoying after playing a while than the backgroundmusic of the game. If I don't want to hear the music then I certainly don't want to hear the DB-FX. Even a headphone wouldn't help, or they would have to include a special version of EarPlugFX with the card.

And there are more games I like to play without backgroundmusic.

StealthHawk
02-04-03, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Retrofire
On the downside, while nVidia claims otherwise, in 3D mode, FlowFX is still as loud as it was in the (p)reviews that have been popping up.

/shrug

For what its worth...

When the GFFX Ultra is utilized in a 3D application, the fan system spins up and is still about as loud as it was before. NVIDIA reports it to be around 5dBa quieter than the models we saw Web reviews based on last week.

5dB should be a significant decrease in sound intensity.

Smokey
02-04-03, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by T-Spoon
I play games like Morrowind without the backgroundmusic, because it irritates me after a while. But I bet the dustbustersound of the FX gets even more annoying after playing a while than the backgroundmusic of the game. If I don't want to hear the music then I certainly don't want to hear the DB-FX. Even a headphone wouldn't help, or they would have to include a special version of EarPlugFX with the card.

And there are more games I like to play without backgroundmusic.

Um we werent talking about background music, all the games that H played were MP games that dont have any background music. The point I was making was the fact the said even with the side panel off the noice wasnt that bad, do you use your computer with the side panels off? In an enclosed case, the sound really shouldnt be that bad.

creedamd
02-04-03, 04:15 PM
It's a start, but not enough. Loud, bad IQ, questionable drivers, bad peformance for specs, price, and heat.

I just bought a Tyan g9700, I'm tired of waiting for the GFFX, if they are still playing with cooling solutions that means they have nothing ready to ship(unless there will be two flavors, then its a crapshoot. Sad.

MuFu
02-04-03, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
5dB should be a significant decrease in sound intensity.

Significant in terms of SPL, yeah, but a 5dBA decrease wouldn't really be noticeable unless you had the old/new models running side-by-side. It certainly isn't anything remarkable and seems like marketing fud to me... the spinnning down in 2D is the real good news.

MuFu.

Sazar
02-04-03, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Significant in terms of SPL, yeah, but a 5dBA decrease wouldn't really be noticeable unless you had the old/new models running side-by-side. It certainly isn't anything remarkable and seems like marketing fud to me... the spinnning down in 2D is the real good news.

MuFu.

its a logarithmic scale... hence 5db IS a pretty decent decrease in noise level...

in response to the lad who said to use noise cancelling headphones... what IF you have a set of speakers that renders good audio? do you plan to just pick em up and throw em away because you now have to buy noise cancelling headphones to play?

what about the people who DON'T use headphones all the time they play?

one thing to point out... if the flow FX keeps spinning up and spinning down... what exactly is the life expectancy of that part? in my experience working with computers/peripherals... devices with 'sophisticated' parts tend to break down faster... spinning up/down/up/down.. I dunno what kind of guarantee's nvidia is making on this product...

Sazar
02-04-03, 06:21 PM
The card

The double-wide, (approximately) 1.5-pound 5800 Ultra is three times the weight of a Radeon 9700 Pro and the heaviest graphics card we've seen. The additional weight is due to the unique FlowFX heat-pipe cooling system that keeps the 500-MHz core and memory from melting.


The high-speed fan and rear-duct design of the FlowFX produces a noticeable but not intolerable noise. The fan slows quickly and quiets nicely when working in less stressful 2D environments. Regardless of workload, FlowFX was the loudest sound in our test system's Antec Plus 1080AMG case, which has three external case fans (not counting two in the power supply).

thats from TECHTV and they will be doing a review on the card on the air with Kyle from [H]ardOCP...

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/products/story/0,24330,3416421,00.html

FYi for those who want to know :)

MuFu
02-04-03, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
its a logarithmic scale... hence 5db IS a pretty decent decrease in noise level...

Human hearing response doesn't scale directly with SPL. 5dBA is really not that significant at all.

If you were put in a room with and early GFFX ES sample, isolated for a few minutes and then taken into another room with the production card in you'd be very hard-pressed to differentiate the volumes.

MuFu.

Sazar
02-04-03, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Human hearing response doesn't scale directly with SPL. 5dBA is really not that significant at all.

If you were put in a room with and early GFFX ES sample, isolated for a few minutes and then taken into another room with the production card in you'd be very hard-pressed to differentiate the volumes.

MuFu.

its very likely :)

but the difference should be noticeable is what i was pointing @...

if you hear one v/s the other... with a difference of 5 db... I would expect one to notice the difference... but then again I may very well be comparing others to myself... I work in an environment where sounds are key (to be eliminated) and it is VERY easy for me to distinguish between HSF's rated a few db apart... of course they DO have distinct signatures when on so that sort of negates THAT theory now that I think of it lol..

ah well.. :) I will maintain 5db is a decent decrease..

gokickrocks
02-04-03, 06:39 PM
dbA =/= db

Sazar
02-04-03, 06:50 PM
yup... db is different from dbA... :)

a 10 db increase is a 10 fold increase in sound intensity...

example.... 50db to 60 db = 10 times sound intensity...

however 50db to 53db = twice sound intensity :)

there are plenty of websites out there that explain the way the scale works and how db on the A scale works also :)

BUT perceived sound is different from the purely technical level... though I would argue that you can make out the difference still... as I have done in my previous post...

Blkout
02-04-03, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Human hearing response doesn't scale directly with SPL. 5dBA is really not that significant at all.

If you were put in a room with and early GFFX ES sample, isolated for a few minutes and then taken into another room with the production card in you'd be very hard-pressed to differentiate the volumes.

MuFu.

Actually human hearing does scale with SPL. An increase of 3dB becomes noticeable to the human ear, an increase of 10dB is percieved as twice as loud. Obviously decreases of these same values would results in the opposite results, but I think you get the point.

5dB is a very big drop, but the problem lies in the fact that it was already WAY too loud so even though 5dB is going to be considerably quieter, its still going to be too loud for my tastes.

MuFu
02-04-03, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by gokickrocks
dbA =/= db

Sure, but we're talking about SPL changes of a specific frequency spectrum here so weighting issues aren't really that relevant.

Yeah, I guess 5dBA reduction is better than none at all. Just wanted to point out that it was nothing special and that the "-3dB = half power/intensity so therefore -5dBA = almost 4 times quieter" logic is flawed.

MuFu.

Blkout
02-04-03, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
yup... db is different from dbA... :)

a 10 db increase is a 10 fold increase in sound intensity...

example.... 50db to 60 db = 10 times sound intensity...

however 50db to 53db = twice sound intensity :)

there are plenty of websites out there that explain the way the scale works and how db on the A scale works also :)

BUT perceived sound is different from the purely technical level... though I would argue that you can make out the difference still... as I have done in my previous post...

This information is not correct.

3dB is commonly mistaken for being perceived as twice as loud, this is NOT true, its 10dB for the human ear to perceive twice as loud.

MuFu
02-04-03, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Blkout
Actually human hearing does scale with SPL. An increase of 3dB becomes noticeable to the human ear, an increase of 10dB is percieved as twice as loud.

Yes, I know. I said it doesn't scale *directly* (i.e. f(x) = kx type relationship).

I have been making the same points as you in numerous threads over the past few days. We are on the same team, dude. :D

MuFu.

Sazar
02-04-03, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Blkout
This information is not correct.

3dB is commonly mistaken for being perceived as twice as loud, this is NOT true, its 10dB for the human ear to perceive twice as loud.

I took the figures directly from a physics professor who had a ph.D in accoustics...

I would advise you take up the matter with him and tell him to return his degree to where-ever he got it from...

:afro:

MuFu
02-04-03, 07:04 PM
You are both right from what I can see. One of you is talking about sound intensity and the other about perceived loudness.

MuFu.

Blkout
02-04-03, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
I took the figures directly from a physics professor who had a ph.D in accoustics...

I would advise you take up the matter with him and tell him to return his degree to where-ever he got it from...

:afro:


It may be a case of what MuFu mentioned above, maybe we are talking about two different things, but perceived loudness is all that matters, and that's what I'm talking about.;)

I have no doubt in my mind that I'm right about what I said.