View Full Version : Hirai Hypes Blu-ray
"Hirai Hypes Blu-ray, Points to History of Sony Leadership
When it comes to storage space and high definition content, SCEA president Kaz Hirai (right) believes Sony's Blu-ray format gives the PS3 the edge over Xbox 360. Hirai also deflected comments about Sony's arrogance by saying that history has proved Sony to be right." from the GameDaily Biz Newsletter
Seems we all live in our own world. What "history" do you think he is talking about? The only thing I can think of would be the Walkmen back in the 80s but they did not invent it they just made it popular. Kinda like Apple and the Ipod. so any ideas?
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 11:08 AM
CDs and DVDs, Sony had a big hand in the development in both, just like Blu-Ray.
Again for the 100th time, Blu-Ray is not a Sony only media, it is not like Betamax or UMD. Many other studios and companies are backing the media.
If I'm not mistaken it was Sony and Phillips that developed the Red Book audio specs for music CDs way back in the days.
"Hirai also deflected comments about Sony's arrogance by saying that history has proved Sony to be right."
What "history" do you think he is talking about?
Yes, History has proved Sony right. Just look at the Betamax! Oh wait...
Again for the 100th time, Blu-Ray is not a Sony only media, it is not like Betamax or UMD. Many other studios and companies are backing the media.
While what technically killed Beta and has me wondering why people waste money on "Universal" Media Disc was its closed format, it ultimately comes down to Sony being arrogant and expecting people to buy whatever they dump out. While they might not shoot themselves in the foot with Blue-Ray by making it a closed standard, I'm sure they'll find another way.
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 11:33 AM
Yes, History has proved Sony right. Just look at the Betamax! Oh wait...
The format was superior to VHS in most ways actually but VHS had more companies backing it due to it being cheaper to produce...
Heck, Betamax technology was still used for 15 years after the actual Betamax was discontinued. Sony used it in the Video-8 format which is the most popular camcorder tape format.
Oh and Blu-Ray is developed by 3 of the 4 major companies that created CD and DVDs... Pioneer, Philips and Sony. Toshiba is on the HD-DVD camp.
Hardly surprising, isn't it ? What I find disappointing is that console consumers get dragged into a format war most of them aren't interested in. I'm sure having a big media has its advantages and probably 500-600$ for a sofisticated piece of hardware like the PS3 is a bargain but... most console gamers just wanted something cheap to play videogames on.
Bluray is a big bet for Sony. It's their chance to promote not only their products but also the brand which has been obfuscated in the later years. That's why Sony execs have taken the struggle so close and personal. To the point of jeopardizing the successful Playstation brand with discutbile moves.
Microsoft -ironically- gets royalities from both HD formats due to the compression algorithms used so in the end their motives for joining the HDDVD camp are only to make things harder for Sony.
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 11:52 AM
Hardly surprising, isn't it ? What I find disappointing is that console consumers get dragged into a format war most of them aren't interested in. I'm sure having a big media has its advantages and probably 500-600$ for a sofisticated piece of hardware like the PS3 is a bargain but... most console gamers just wanted something cheap to play videogames on.
Bluray is a big bet for Sony. It's their chance to promote not only their products but also the brand which has been obfuscated in the later years. That's why Sony execs have taken the struggle so close and personal. To the point of jeopardizing the successful Playstation brand with discutbile moves.
Microsoft -ironically- gets royalities from both HD formats due to the compression algorithms used so in the end their motives for joining the HDDVD camp are only to make things harder for Sony.
MS joining the HD-DVD camp means nothing, their addon solution for the X360 is poor. Addons NEVER suceed.
As for console gamers getting dragged into the format war? It was like this since the beginning. CDs in the Saturn and PSX, DVDs in the PS2... now Sony wants to make sure they get a head start in the next format. Why not include it in a console that they (and everyone) knows will sell millions. Even if a person doesn't use the Blu-Ray movie playback, its still another player in a household and thats all the studios care about when choosing which side to support.
evilchris
06-07-06, 12:00 PM
MS joining the HD-DVD camp means nothing, their addon solution for the X360 is poor. Addons NEVER suceed.
As for console gamers getting dragged into the format war? It was like this since the beginning. CDs in the Saturn and PSX, DVDs in the PS2... now Sony wants to make sure they get a head start in the next format. Why not include it in a console that they (and everyone) knows will sell millions. Even if a person doesn't use the Blu-Ray movie playback, its still another player in a household and thats all the studios care about when choosing which side to support.
The difference is, with DVD ANYONE with a TV could watch a movie. Not so with BR as it is an HD format. People with 1080p TV's don't give a **** about PS3, they'll buy a real player.
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 12:07 PM
The difference is, with DVD ANYONE with a TV could watch a movie. Not so with BR as it is an HD format. People with 1080p TV's don't give a **** about PS3, they'll buy a real player.
Same with Blu-Ray. You do not need to have an HD TV for it, you don't even need a TV that supports 1080p. Why do you keep on insisting that Blu-Ray equals 1080p when HD-DVD aswell supports 1080p?
Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can be played at 480i, 720p, 1080i or 1080p. The only restriction is those put on by the studio. If they implement the DRM then you can't go above 540p, but no studio plans to do that in the near future since well it would kill the format due to very few TVs supporting DRM right now.
EDIT:
Just to clarify even more, The ICT ,which is part of the AACS copy-protection system, is also used in HD-DVDs, they are identical in this form. So both will downconvert the resolution of the movie if played on a TV that does not support it.
For someone who claims to know so much about nextgen media you sure do spout some stupid stuff.
CDs and DVDs, Sony had a big hand in the development in both, just like Blu-Ray.
Again for the 100th time, Blu-Ray is not a Sony only media, it is not like Betamax or UMD. Many other studios and companies are backing the media.
Backing up the media is one thing ,development of the media is another. Bluray is mostly a Sony and a few others companies thing. I know it was said that The BDA created bluray but thats simply wrong. an over simplification ,for example Apple is a member and last week they just recently announced that will backup which ever format wins .In the same group there are software companies or manufacturers that never develops hardware ,just label them with their name. The association its mostly composed of companies with great interest to support the format financially buying the product but that never were behind of the development. So its more similar to betamax . if i where to guess ,The main creators of bluray should be Pioneer,JVC and SOny ,those are the companies that where the first to pre-announced bluray and future products like 200megs layer discs, or that helped to fix early limitations of the format like JVC and that will be in the first line to release bluray drives .But Sony without a doubt is the company with more eggs in the basket ,the one that will take the bigger piece of the cake if the format wins and of course the one that will take the bigger risk if the format fails.
As for console gamers getting dragged into the format war? It was like this since the beginning. CDs in the Saturn and PSX, DVDs in the PS2... now Sony wants to make sure they get a head start in the next format. Why not include it in a console that they (and everyone) knows will sell millions. Even if a person doesn't use the Blu-Ray movie playback, its still another player in a household and thats all the studios care about when choosing which side to support.
I don't remember any format war back in the '90s. By the time the PS1 and Saturn arrived on the market, the CD was quite well widespread. Same for the DVD with PS2. You could buy an 8x DVD-ROM for less than 100$ back in '99.
If anything, Sony reminds me of Nintendo opting for cartridges for its "Ultra" project because it wanted extra profits from them.
The average consumer has nothing to gain right now from having a Bluray (or HDDVD) instead of a DVD in its console. Sony, on the other hand, has a lot to gain and I think we agree on this. Too bad they charge 200$ more for it and you cannot say "no, thank you: just give me the console".
evilchris
06-07-06, 12:12 PM
For someone who claims to know so much about nextgen media you sure do spout some stupid stuff.
"claims" yeah I know nothing. I do know playing an "HD movie" in 480i is kind of ****ing retarded.
BTW I also always say "1080p" because as we know, since Sony told us, that is FULL HD, anything else is SD.
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 12:16 PM
Backing up the media is one thing ,development of the media is another. Bluray is mostly a Sony and a few others companies thing. I know it was said that The BDA created bluray but thats simply wrong. an over simplification ,for example Apple is a member and last week they just recently announced that will backup which ever format wins. The association its mostly composed of companies with great interest it support the format financially buying the product but that never were behind of the development. So its more similar to betamax . if i where to guess ,The main creators of bluray should be Pioneer,JVC and SOny ,those are the companies that where the first to pre-announced future bluray products like 200megs layer discs, or that helped to fix early some of the format limitations like JVC and that will be the first to release bluray drives .But Sony is the company with more eggs in the basket and the one that will take the bigger piece of the cake if the format wins.
The board of Directors are the founders of the media, they were the ones to create the specifications and fund the project. Apple will support whichever media wins because they could use any media in their computers. Im sure that if Blu-Ray were to fail and all companies were to back out of it, even Sony would begin production of HD-DVD Drives and Discs.
The same can be said if HD-DVD fails, to ignore the nextgen media that wins just because you originally supported it competitors is foolish. Sony supported VHS after they lost with Betamax.
|MaguS|
06-07-06, 12:20 PM
"claims" yeah I know nothing. I do know playing an "HD movie" in 480i is kind of ****ing retarded.
BTW I also always say "1080p" because as we know, since Sony told us, that is FULL HD, anything else is SD.
So, Because its not FULL its automatically standard? Wheres the partial or medium? I always took it that when they ment "Full HD" they ment the Highest resolution that current HDTV technology allows.
Are all other resolutions below 1600x1200 on a PC while playing a game considering "low resolutions"? No, They just aren't the best possible resolution that are currently available to PC Titles.
I was under the impression that Toshiba basicly developed the original DVD and wasn't Sony in the DIVX camp back when people thought that was a good idea? Any way.
I did not know Sony worked on the original CD format. to bad it did not work out w/ the mini disk. I have one of those and it is awsome!!
The board of Directors are the founders of the media, they were the ones to create the specifications and fund the project. Apple will support whichever media wins because they could use any media in their computers. Im sure that if Blu-Ray were to fail and all companies were to back out of it, even Sony would begin production of HD-DVD Drives and Discs.
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Sure the board of directors founded the media , and Apple is a member if that board too. What i say is that its an oversimplication saying Bluray is a BDA thing , when clearly there are many companies in that board that didnt drawed a line in the design process of the product.
I was under the impression that Toshiba basicly developed the original DVD and wasn't Sony in the DIVX camp back when people thought that was a good idea? Any way.
I did not know Sony worked on the original CD format. to bad it did not work out w/ the mini disk. I have one of those and it is awsome!!
Sony and Philips proposed the MMCD but later they abandoned the project as the DVD specs were superior and it came to market first
The optical storage technology, using a transparent disc, was invented by David Paul Gregg in 1958. Philips in the late '60s developed the reflective disc as we know today. Philips and MCA (owner of the Gregg patents) joined their efforts and the result was the Laserdisc, a 12" disc that could hold analog video using a FM-PCM signal. The laserdisc reached the market in 1973 but tanked because of costs and because it was too ahead of its times.
Philips still believed in the laser technology and convinced some japanese companies (who became mildly interested in the concept) to join forces.
Pioneer would pick up the old Laserdisc concept introducing improvements like digital audio and costant linear velocity to improve the playback lenght to 60 minutes per side. The revamped Laserdisc reached the market in 1981 and was rather succesfull in Japan.
Sony went on developing a smaller variant (12 centimeters) used exclusively for storing digital audio. The Audio CD reached the market in 1978.
lightman
06-07-06, 01:08 PM
I was under the impression that Toshiba basicly developed the original DVD
Philips and Sony contributed the tracking technoloy, and Philips alone the coding method.
Philips owns the patents on DVD, DVD players, DVD-ROM, DVD+R and DVD+RW (the last two are almost exclusively a development by Philips).
DVD+R DL was developed by Sony, the DVD-R DL by Pioneer.
I did not know Sony worked on the original CD format.
Philips and Sony were the two really big names behind the CD, the Red Book audio spec and the Green Book interactive cd (CD-i) spec.
Btw, Philips first developed the Laserdisc, which is, to all extents, the "father" of the CD, DVD, and now Blu-ray and HD-DVD.
Oh, and the two founders of the Blu-ray format (and the sole ones) are indeed Sony and Philips.
Just a few of Philips achievements and developments :
1963 - Tape. That is, compact cassete. Do you remember it ? ;)
1972 - first laserdisc player. The technology dates back to the 60s
1982 - CD, with Sony
The board of Directors are the founders of the media, they were the ones to create the specifications and fund the project. Apple will support whichever media wins because they could use any media in their computers. Im sure that if Blu-Ray were to fail and all companies were to back out of it, even Sony would begin production of HD-DVD Drives and Discs.
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Sure the board of directors "founded" the media , and Apple is a "founders" too since they are members in that check list. The organization was founded for the promotion of the product and to ensure compatibility with older formats, it doesnt tell anything about bluray creators other than they should also be on that list. What i say is that its an oversimplication saying Bluray is a BDA thing , when the majority in that board didnt drawed a single line in the design phase of the product. THe real creators of the technology are a just couple or more of the electronics giants that invent and design ,and very likely Sony is one of them. What is funny is that many companies are in both organizations ,because they will support both. So another oversimplification could be to say that HD-DVD is also DVD@forum thing , and the format war is between members of the same organizations because many of the members of one are also members of the competition . Its quite possible that there will no "winners" here ,and that in the end both formats win and lose at the same time ,and joined in one .Bluray media however will have more demand since more BRplayers will be on the streets since they are included for free in every PS3 . In the end is quite possible that both formats joins ,in the same way today DVD-R and DVD+R are supported and now you cant buy a DVD recorder that is not +/- compatible. but that doesnt look like will happen anytime soon ,until the prices are lower enough for hybrids players.
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Sony and Philips proposed the MMCD but later they abandoned the project as the DVD specs were superior and it came to market first
The optical storage technology, using a transparent disc, was invented by David Paul Gregg in 1958. Philips in the late '60s developed the reflective disc as we know today. Philips and MCA (owner of the Gregg patents) joined their efforts and the result was the Laserdisc, a 12" disc that could hold analog video using a FM-PCM signal. The laserdisc reached the market in 1973 but tanked because of costs and because it was too ahead of its times.
Philips still believed in the laser technology and convinced some japanese companies (who became mildly interested in the concept) to join forces.
Pioneer would pick up the old Laserdisc concept introducing improvements like digital audio and costant linear velocity to improve the playback lenght to 60 minutes per side. The revamped Laserdisc reached the market in 1981 and was rather succesfull in Japan.
Sony went on developing a smaller variant (12 centimeters) used exclusively for storing digital audio. The Audio CD reached the market in 1978.
Wow great post thanks :D
I still have and use my Pioneer LaserDisk the Video is not DVD lvl but close but the audio is actually better on most movies I have heard both DVD and Laser versions of. Less compression on hte Laser is what I have been told. Any truth to that or is it just a difference in mix I am hearing?
The video on the laserdiscs is analogue, not digital.
Quality is at broadcast level. This may be a good or a bad thing; US/Jap laserdiscs use the same NTSC modulation scheme used for broadcasting which introduces some image degradation. A DVD connected to the television through a S-Video cable produces visibly better results. Euro laserdiscs, on the other side, had better quality because of the superior PAL modulation employed and the result is a picture almost comparable to DVDs.
Laserdiscs were usually preferred at the beginning by cinephiles because the early DVDs were poorly encoded resulting in visible compression noise and artifacts.
In Japan, a few HD Laserdiscs have been produced as well. They were compatible with the analog Muse standard (1080 lines at 60Hz, interlaced).
MS joining the HD-DVD camp means nothing, their addon solution for the X360 is poor. Addons NEVER suceed.
PS2 online adaptor? Eyetoy? Gameboy player? N64 expansion pack? Xbox DVD playback kit?
And I think it's a little early to call an addon solution "poor" when noone has seen it in action yet. Actually, if they do something like, say, bundle the HD-DVD player with the Xbox 360 this holiday season and sell it for under $500, they could market it as direct competition with the PS3. Although that depends on how much they'd be willing to sell the addon for. In any case, I don't care much as I'm going to wait a few years before I hop on any format.
When all is said and done I rather have a choice on weither I want high definition video on my console instead of having it forced on me Sony style!
The difference is, with DVD ANYONE with a TV could watch a movie. Not so with BR as it is an HD format. People with 1080p TV's don't give a **** about PS3, they'll buy a real player.
It's just marketing, don't blame the company for trying to earn some $! :P That's what you always say when people get angry because MS charges for xbox-live and companies for game updates.
I just have to ask how you people know so much about this stuff? :o
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