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GreenWolf
06-11-06, 11:17 AM
I have no stake in the Intell or AMD camps, I just want cheap CPUs that OC well and I do hate locked multipliers, having said that:

1. Conroe isn't here yet. Hold up all the excitement until you have something in hand.

2. Conroe is a new CPU with a new manufactoring process and will require a new chipset. I don't know of a single CPU that arrived in this manner that did not require several months and MB revisions to work out the bugs.

3. Cheap CPUs, that OC well, will not arrive until the manufacturing process is mature. Both AMD and Intell use a process called binning to pick out the higher speed chips, the more mature the manufacturing process the better the chips at the lower (cheaper) bins. For instance Intell dual core Pentium D905's are just now coming into their own as good OC'ers because the dual core manufacturing process is becoming mature. Expect the same and maybe longer from the Conroe because of the move to a new CPU infrastructure and the move to the 65mn process. It is sort of like buying a new model car from the first few weeks of production. No matter what brand, a new car built in the third or fourth month of production is better than the same car built in the first 3 weeks of production.

Ealry adopters, as usual, will have to do a lot of work to get their systems runnning right. Waiting will get the rest of us there with a lot less worry and heartache and with a product that will ultimately OC better than the early adopter CPU.

In any case, rather than working hard to get a Conroe going, I intend to fight off MS Vista and go LINUX to free myself of the yoke of cost and slavery to Microsoft. Now if I can just get Blizzard to port World of Warcraft over to LINUX, my life will be OK. (nana2)

Sazar
06-11-06, 11:21 AM
I have no stake in the Intell or AMD camps, I just want cheap CPUs that OC well and I do hate locked multipliers, having said that:

1. Conroe isn't here yet. Hold up all the excitement until you have something in hand.


It's in labs and in systems. So yes, it kind of IS here. And it works great.

2. Conroe is a new CPU with a new manufactoring process and will require a new chipset. I don't know of a single CPU that arrived in this manner that did not require several months and MB revisions to work out the bugs.

My old sckt 754 proc worked ace out the box. The Dothan procs worked great too. Early adopters KNOW the issues they might experience. It's part of the game.

3. Cheap CPUs, that OC well, will not arrive until the manufacturing process is mature. Both AMD and Intell use a process called binning to pick out the higher speed chips, the more mature the manufacturing process the better the chips at the lower (cheaper) bins. For instance Intell dual core Pentium D905's are just now coming into their own as good OC'ers because the dual core manufacturing process is becoming mature. Expect the same and maybe longer from the Conroe because of the move to a new CPU infrastructure and the move to the 65mn process. It is sort of like buying a new model car from the first few weeks of production. No matter what brand, a new car built in the third or fourth month of production is better than the same car built in the first 3 weeks of production.

Ealry adopters, as usual, will have to do a lot of work to get their systems runnning right. Waiting will get the rest of us there with a lot less worry and heartache and with a product that will ultimately OC better than the early adopter CPU.

In any case, rather than working hard to get a Conroe going, I intend to fight off MS Vista and go LINUX to free myself of the yoke of cost and slavery to Microsoft. Now if I can just get Blizzard to port World of Warcraft over to LINUX, my life will be OK. (nana2)

So, whats the point of your post? That conroe is junk and just stick with the k8 procs?

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 11:31 AM
1. It ain't here yet. It is still just hype over at intel. Any of your buddies have one at home?

2. For most of us, even after it gets here, there will be another wait.

3. If I remember right, 754 was just a socket change, not a completely new CPU structure and Dothan was just a modification of an existing CPU structure.

4. Early adopters have their hands full and for me the cost and effort isn't worth the pain.

5. With Vista on the way, it will be even harder to get a Conroe working right.

6. My effort is better spent in moving over to LINUX. I'll wait until all you early adopters work out the kinks in Conroe before I make the switch. Of course by then all the hype will be on the new AMD CPU.(pirate)

saturnotaku
06-11-06, 11:37 AM
3. If I remember right, 754 was just a socket change, not a completely new CPU structure and Dothan was just a modification of an existing CPU structure.

You don't think the first massively available 64-bit processor for consumers wasn't a completely new architecture?

5. With Vista on the way, it will be even harder to get a Conroe working right.

And you are basing this off of what now?

6. My effort is better spent in moving over to LINUX. I'll wait until all you early adopters work out the kinks in Conroe before I make the switch. Of course by then all the hype will be on the new AMD CPU.(pirate)

What's with the capitalization of Linux? Oh, it must be better because you put it in all caps.

Sazar
06-11-06, 11:38 AM
1. It ain't here yet. It is still just hype over at intel. Any of your buddies have one at home?

No but I've had a whale of a time using it on a Dell XPS 700 at the Dell labs.

Have you used one yet?

2. For most of us, even after it gets here, there will be another wait.

Perhaps, but unlike AMD which is typically stretched with production at its fabs (thankfully alleviated with their recent investments and upgrades) Intel can meet production targets.

3. If I remember right, 754 was just a socket change, not a completely new CPU structure and Dothan was just a modification of an existing CPU structure.

What? Sckt 754 and 940 came first, THEN 939 for dual-channel. The core architecture did not change, the memory controller did. And you think the hammer architecture was not new? It sure didn't look like the axp procs to me. Maybe you saw something in the marchitecture the rest of us didn't.

4. Early adopters have their hands full and for me the cost and effort isn't worth the pain.

Then why knock on the early-adopters for Conroe? Also, fwiw, JakUp (lucky bastid) has had few issues with his early adopter products (that we know of :smoking: )

5. With Vista on the way, it will be even harder to get a Conroe working right.

Why? It's not like Intel has crappy 64-bit procs. The 8xx and 9xx series performs just fine. And there are plenty of procs out there and plenty of code for Vista has been released and is likely going to survive in RC1.

6. My effort is better spent in moving over to LINUX. I'll wait until all you early adopters work out the kinks in Conroe before I make the switch. Of course by then all the hype will be on the new AMD CPU.(pirate)

Good for you. This is a bad argument for not buying a conroe proc though since the low-down on k8l proc is far less substansive and viable than the info on the conroe and am2 procs.

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 11:42 AM
The first 64 bit processors were a nightmare to get working right. The early chipsets took quite a while to sort out and wasn't a good buy until months after the arrival of the new CPUs. Remember?

Vista complicates the other issues that make bringing a new CPU architecture to market. Little things like drivers, remember those?

linux, feel better now? :barf:

jAkUp
06-11-06, 11:49 AM
My guess is Conroe will be stable on launch. We already know that Nforce 590 should be. Look at Nforce4, it has been stable since day 1. Same with Socket 775 for the most part.

Vista will be fine, since it will be designed around these chips. I put $1,000,000 on it. Do you honostly believe Nvidia and MS will have poor support for Conroe? You would have to be out of your mind to believe that.

Linux, my guess will have a harder time due to usually poor driver support on the chipset end. Not to mention, these are gaming CPU's. Buying a gaming CPU for Linux is like buying Premium gasoline for a Toyota Corolla.

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 11:53 AM
You Dell guys still trying to ditch Intel or betting everything on Conroe? Oh, wait a minute, didn't Dell just switch over to AMD for their servers? BTW, other than great service your stuff sucks. :) Just kidding.


No but I've had a whale of a time using it on a Dell XPS 700 at the Dell labs.

Have you used one yet?



Perhaps, but unlike AMD which is typically stretched with production at its fabs (thankfully alleviated with their recent investments and upgrades) Intel can meet production targets.



What? Sckt 754 and 940 came first, THEN 939 for dual-channel. The core architecture did not change, the memory controller did. And you think the hammer architecture was not new? It sure didn't look like the axp procs to me. Maybe you saw something in the marchitecture the rest of us didn't.



Then why knock on the early-adopters for Conroe? Also, fwiw, JakUp (lucky bastid) has had few issues with his early adopter products (that we know of :smoking: )



Why? It's not like Intel has crappy 64-bit procs. The 8xx and 9xx series performs just fine. And there are plenty of procs out there and plenty of code for Vista has been released and is likely going to survive in RC1.



Good for you. This is a bad argument for not buying a conroe proc though since the low-down on k8l proc is far less substansive and viable than the info on the conroe and am2 procs.

Lars
06-11-06, 11:54 AM
LOL funny thread. Conroe is no pain, it's all gain..... :D

Believe me, it will BLOW AWAY anything AMD currently has for gaming. I'll even leave you a little clue.. http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8992400

jAkUp
06-11-06, 11:56 AM
See? ^^

Take it from a man who has a Conroe CPU :D

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 12:05 PM
My guess is it will take a few months to sort out. that is not unreasonable or unexpected.

NF4 was a new chipset for an established CPU. New CPU+new Chipset+new OS = problems. That is a fact, proven by history.

Yes, WIN 3.14, Win Me, Win98 and WinXP were a great OS's from day 1. NOT!

You are right, Linux will be much harder, but I am sick of MS. Instead of ditching pass port as the negative response in the user community has shown over and over again, MS will build it into Vista and just not notify you that it is using your personal data, because MS knows best. I don't like their choices. therefore I want to change. :(


My guess is Conroe will be stable on launch. We already know that Nforce 590 should be. Look at Nforce4, it has been stable since day 1.

Vista will be fine, since it will be designed around these chips. I put $1,000,000 on it. Do you honostly believe Nvidia and MS will have poor support for Conroe? You would have to be out of your mind to believe that.

Linux, my guess will have a harder time due to usually poor driver support on the chipset end. Not to mention, these are gaming CPU's. Buying a gaming CPU for Linux is like buying Premium gasoline for a Toyota Corolla.

coldpower27
06-11-06, 12:07 PM
The first 64 bit processors were a nightmare to get working right. The early chipsets took quite a while to sort out and wasn't a good buy until months after the arrival of the new CPUs. Remember?

Vista complicates the other issues that make bringing a new CPU architecture to market. Little things like drivers, remember those?

linux, feel better now? :barf:

If your talking about the first x86-64 processors by AMD yes, but Intel since it builds chipset itself, is going to be stable for Conroe from the intial get go.

AMD relies on third parties to get it's chipsets right so it's more prone to problems. Not to mention a shift to HyperTransport was a pretty big change, while Intel is still keeping the FSB technology so chipset are unlikely to have any issue if they have passed Conroe validation.

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 12:09 PM
..to wait until you can buy it off the selfe before you start ranting.

Personally, I'll wait until the bugs are worked out before I buy one.

Sazar
06-11-06, 12:12 PM
The first 64 bit processors were a nightmare to get working right. The early chipsets took quite a while to sort out and wasn't a good buy until months after the arrival of the new CPUs. Remember?

No, thats quite a bogus claim.

The procs were fine. m$ didn't have a 64-bit o/s out for the masses. You should know the procs were fine and running 64-bit distro's on 'nix quite swimmingly.

Remember?

Vista complicates the other issues that make bringing a new CPU architecture to market. Little things like drivers, remember those?

What are you smoking?

Vista is working off an established instruction set. The hardware and some 3'rd party software with crappy programmers will likely have products that will have issues to start with. This has little to do with the processor.

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 01:24 PM
but you are full of it.

I disagree with your assessment of Intel's first foray into 64 bit architecture and think you must have a short memory. Also, if it worked so well, where is it now? JMHO

As far as, "What are you smoking?"

"Vista is working off an established instruction set. The hardware and some 3'rd party software with crappy programmers will likely have products that will have issues to start with. This has little to do with the processor. "

Not only do I think you are the one smoking dope, but you are blowing it too. Vista is working off MS code that was not documented very well in the beginning and the original programers are retired/dead. There is a lot of code that MS reutilizes that no one at MS understands what it does or why it works. That is part of the reason it is called bloatware. If WinXP was so good out of the box, then why does each Service Pack cause so many unanticipated problems? Surely not because they have no idea what they are doing with the old code?

jAkUp, I think your anology (Buying a gaming CPU for Linux is like buying Premium gasoline for a Toyota Corolla.) is hilarious, especially since I think of MS WinXP as running a Ferrari on diesel. As it spits and sputters down the road you pray it doesn't freeze up before you get to where you are going. :D

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 01:38 PM
that does not mean that the Conroe release will be problem-free. The complexity+the rush by Intel to get Conroe to market seems to me to be a huge obstacle to overcome.

"Miracles happen, but not often, and never when they are rushed." Saying about tactical planning by an old friend of mine in the German Army. Odds are there will be teething problems with Conroe. JMHO

CaptNKILL
06-11-06, 01:51 PM
Wow, what a troll.:thumbdwn:

grey_1
06-11-06, 01:59 PM
1. It ain't here yet. It is still just hype over at intel. Any of your buddies have one at home?

2. For most of us, even after it gets here, there will be another wait.

3. If I remember right, 754 was just a socket change, not a completely new CPU structure and Dothan was just a modification of an existing CPU structure.

4. Early adopters have their hands full and for me the cost and effort isn't worth the pain.

5. With Vista on the way, it will be even harder to get a Conroe working right.

6. My effort is better spent in moving over to LINUX. I'll wait until all you early adopters work out the kinks in Conroe before I make the switch. Of course by then all the hype will be on the new AMD CPU.(pirate)

a12ctic, Is that you wit a new name buddy???:D :D :D

that does not mean that the Conroe release will be problem-free. The complexity+the rush by Intel to get Conroe to market seems to me to be a huge obstacle to overcome.

"Miracles happen, but not often, and never when they are rushed." Saying about tactical planning by an old friend of mine in the German Army. Odds are there will be teething problems with Conroe. JMHO
Why does it see to bother you that a monster of a corporation with an r&d budget like intels might finally crank something out that is to the AMD64 what the AMD64 was to the p4 upon it's arrival? If the thought of an architecture
that efficient and powerful doesn't turn your inner geek on then your nothing but a fanboi trolling for someone to tell you how right you are. And not above name calling when you don't get your expected answers.

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2713

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/06/04/intel_conroe_performance_preview/1.html

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2657

I could go on, there's a nice mixed bag of hardware reviews there, but you'll probably just say " Oh them? They Suck, them too" so on and so on...

a12ctic
06-11-06, 02:03 PM
not really, imo the 12 second superpi claims were more of trolls than this, you people seem to think that conroe is going to be something completly amazing, sure itll be better than the p4s and a little better than CURRENT GEN amd's, but amd will take the performance back as soon as they can. which is about half a year with the k8l, imo, intel is in more trouble than amd atm, amd may not have the jump on the next gen chips, but after a few months theyll take their crown back. And while were waiting for them to do that theyre chips will probobly be rediculously cheap and a great price/performance buy.

Superfly
06-11-06, 02:30 PM
which part of the 12 second superpi are you still having trouble believing??

you and athlonXP1800 ae something else.

a12ctic
06-11-06, 02:40 PM
ill wait till the chips are accualy released, we have no idea what intel is doing to give themselves this huge advantage, and every time they release new benchmakrs the scores go down, i dont know about you, but it seems awful fishy to me...

Superfly
06-11-06, 02:45 PM
you are aware that the 12 superpi was a heavily overclocked conroe yes??

were not expecting that at retail clocks you know, just for the record.

jAkUp
06-11-06, 02:51 PM
jAkUp, I think your anology (Buying a gaming CPU for Linux is like buying Premium gasoline for a Toyota Corolla.) is hilarious, especially since I think of MS WinXP as running a Ferrari on diesel. As it spits and sputters down the road you pray it doesn't freeze up before you get to where you are going. :D

And Linux? It does not even get on the road. There is pratically NO gaming support. At least you can game on WinXP. And better than Linux when you compare Doom3 benchmarks and such. Have you seen the Doom3 benchmarks? They are laughable compared to WindowsXP. Blame drivers, blame the game, but the fact remains that Linux support and performance sucks as a gaming O.S.

jAkUp
06-11-06, 03:01 PM
not really, imo the 12 second superpi claims were more of trolls than this, you people seem to think that conroe is going to be something completly amazing, sure itll be better than the p4s and a little better than CURRENT GEN amd's, but amd will take the performance back as soon as they can. which is about half a year with the k8l, imo, intel is in more trouble than amd atm, amd may not have the jump on the next gen chips, but after a few months theyll take their crown back. And while were waiting for them to do that theyre chips will probobly be rediculously cheap and a great price/performance buy.

And Intel will come back. What makes you think Intel cannot have a good gaming chip? Are you that much of a fanboy?

I love AMD, but that doesn't mean Intel can't have a killer gaming chip. What makes you think K8L is going to be so killer? We have so little information on it, for all you know it could bomb. Look at AM2. AM2 is an absolute joke, and this new 4x4 is even worse.

GreenWolf
06-11-06, 03:02 PM
a12ctic, Is that you wit a new name buddy??? No. I am GreenWolf and I spent most of last year in Iraq defending your right to be a jerk. :rw:

Q: "Why does it see to bother you that a monster of a corporation with an r&d budget like intels might finally crank something out that is to the AMD64 what the AMD64 was to the p4 upon it's arrival? If the thought of an architecture that efficient and powerful doesn't turn your inner geek on then your nothing but a fanboi trolling for someone to tell you how right you are. And not above name calling when you don't get your expected answers."

A: Having worked for a monster of a corporation with an R&D budget that dwarves Intel's meager outlay, I know that adjectives such as "fast" and "quick" are never used to describe their efforts. I don't have any problem with Intel coming up with a great architecture, I just don't believe they are agile enough to have all the supporting infrastructure in place when they hit the market, given the rush they are in to beat AMD. Also, It looks like you are the one name calling because you don't agree. If you read my first post, you would know I don't care who is in the lead as long as I see cheap CPUs capable of good OCs. Copy, CONROE FANBOI?:p

Now, back to my original reason for this thread: Too many of you Conroe cheerleaders are leading less experienced folks down a path that could easily be over their head. Waiting for conroe is OK, as long as folks know that bringing a new CPU architecture to market doesn't happen overnight. If you are waiting for Conroe be prepared to wait at least 6 months for the bugs to be worked out (unless you are very experienced and can work the bugs out yourself, or just plan on buying a complete system off the shelf and don't plan on OC'n). JMHO :p