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NrthnStar5
07-24-06, 09:44 PM
Does Hyperthreading have an advantage when playing pc games?

Rytr
07-24-06, 09:53 PM
HT kicks in only when there are multiple threads running in parallel and competing for the processor's resources can added performance be noticed.
This does happen in games but I have never tested the effects on results although there should be a benefit for overall performance.

Zelda_fan
07-24-06, 10:35 PM
HT kicks in only when there are multiple threads running in parallel and competing for the processor's resources can added performance be noticed.
This does happen in games but I have never tested the effects on results although there should be a benefit for overall performance.


Even if games are multi-threaded there will never be an advantage. Theoredically, hyperthreading turns a single core into two cores with 50% of the power of the origional. So even if the multithreaded engine operates at 100% efficency, hyperthreading will never make a game run faster than the origional core.

NrthnStar5
07-24-06, 10:45 PM
So, could you in theory actually get better performance in games with a 3.0 P4 w/out HT than one with HT?

Subtestube
07-25-06, 01:20 AM
Yes - you could, but what Zelda says is actually a little misleading. A Hyperthreading CPU does not actually divide the resource set in two - a standard CPU when multitasking does that (though if we actually consider the fact that time slices are very slim, even that's a bit of a lie). For a reasonable explanation of how it works... go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthreading

EDIT: Oh - and actually, if the game is actually multi-threaded, then YES hyperthreading CAN make the game run faster than the non-hyperthreaded version of the same core. Bear in mind that that's ONLY in the case where the game is genuinely multi-threaded.

Namrok
07-25-06, 06:10 AM
Yes - you could, but what Zelda says is actually a little misleading. A Hyperthreading CPU does not actually divide the resource set in two - a standard CPU when multitasking does that (though if we actually consider the fact that time slices are very slim, even that's a bit of a lie). For a reasonable explanation of how it works... go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthreading

EDIT: Oh - and actually, if the game is actually multi-threaded, then YES hyperthreading CAN make the game run faster than the non-hyperthreaded version of the same core. Bear in mind that that's ONLY in the case where the game is genuinely multi-threaded.

Huh...so in hyperthreading the second thread gets the leftover execution time from the first thread. Man that would be a nightmare to program for. No wonder it caused so many problems in a lot of games.

Thank god its dead. Dual core for the win!

DJMONDY
07-25-06, 07:18 AM
My system has this hyperthreading and i did alot of performance testing when i first had my pc but it doesnt affect fps.

Tbh HT causes alot of problems!

1) BSOD when connecting to internet with ht on. never see BSOD with ht off
2) No server list in counterstrike with ht off but ok when on
3) No server list in NFSU2 with ht off but ok when on

Sometimes my internet would connect fine with ht on but most times my pc would crash showing the BSOD. With ht turned off i cant see the server lists in the two games mentioned so i would lose out no matter what i did :(

Ive had a few other problems with ht on but its constantly off these days as i cant stand it crashing all the time.

This is what i would see at least once every day while trying to connect to the net: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/DJMONDY/zerror_message.jpg

HATE IT!!!!! (pirate)



I think im the only one with these problems :thumbdwn: no one else seems to get them or know how to sort it out.

a12ctic
07-25-06, 11:33 AM
hyperthreading was just a little shortcut for intel to squeez as much performance out of their netburst chips

Yuet
07-28-06, 05:04 PM
Huh...so in hyperthreading the second thread gets the leftover execution time from the first thread. Man that would be a nightmare to program for. No wonder it caused so many problems in a lot of games.

Thank god its dead. Dual core for the win!

In a programmer's point of view, coding threads on windows platform are the same disregard of whether it is hyperthreading or dual core. The really important point is how to utilize the threads so that it won't starve the CPU for resource and time. Intel did have a compiler to optimize threads when they introduce HT, think they may have a newer one for Dual core (Not too sure, have not check).

Gaco
07-28-06, 05:16 PM
I remember that I needed to go into the BIOS setup and disable HT before I could play System Shock 2 without crashing.

faraday
07-30-06, 06:40 PM
from wikipedia:

Hyper-Threading works by duplicating certain sections of the processoróthose that store the architectural stateóbut not duplicating the main execution resources. This allows a Hyper-Threading equipped processor to pretend to be two "logical" processors to the host operating system, allowing the operating system to schedule two threads or processes simultaneously. Where execution resources in a non-Hyper-Threading capable processor are not used by the current task, and especially when the processor is stalled, a Hyper-Threading equipped processor may use those execution resources to execute the other scheduled task. (The processor may stall due to a cache miss, branch misprediction, or data dependency.)

Translation: it's just a gimmick.

Demon_82
07-30-06, 07:22 PM
Actually, when you don't hit the wall of a HT-troubled game, it does help in any situation. That windows background processes wich one can't kill completely have few CPU time necessities, and usually are happy with that leftovers that the HT makes available. At least in my PC, it does help to cut the number of slowdowns caused for that processes.

xbob
07-30-06, 09:44 PM
from wikipedia:



Translation: it's just a gimmick.

Not really, when it works, it is great, there was just a lot of software that didn't know how to cope with multiple CPU options. Those same games will tank on a dual core system today.

de><ta
07-30-06, 11:49 PM
It depends on how well the OS schedules the various threads on the two cores.

Daydre@m
07-31-06, 01:46 AM
My system has this hyperthreading and i did alot of performance testing when i first had my pc but it doesnt affect fps.

Tbh HT causes alot of problems!

1) BSOD when connecting to internet with ht on. never see BSOD with ht off
2) No server list in counterstrike with ht off but ok when on
3) No server list in NFSU2 with ht off but ok when on

Sometimes my internet would connect fine with ht on but most times my pc would crash showing the BSOD. With ht turned off i cant see the server lists in the two games mentioned so i would lose out no matter what i did :(

Ive had a few other problems with ht on but its constantly off these days as i cant stand it crashing all the time.

This is what i would see at least once every day while trying to connect to the net: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/DJMONDY/zerror_message.jpg

HATE IT!!!!! (pirate)


I think im the only one with these problems :thumbdwn: no one else seems to get them or know how to sort it out.




Well I got this problem when I had a Prescott 2.8 HT . The problem only occured when using the cable modem via USB cable . USB conflict was the main problem with HT processors so when I shifted to ethernet I never got the BSOD.

On the other hand in odd cases you will see HT slows down some of the apps execution instead of running them faster. Oh well I guess fooling the OS in thinking that a single core is dual core to make it work more is not a good idea in reality.

nrdstrm
07-31-06, 02:25 AM
from wikipedia:



Translation: it's just a gimmick.

Well, I can't comment on games, but when P4's w/hyper threading came out and I moved to that from an athlon (and then later, even an athlon 64), multitasking in windows is improved GREATLY. I mean, I was able to do so many things at once where as on an AMD, it would eventually choke...Hyperthreading was great for it's time, but I thank god for my Conroe Dual Core Goodness :)

faraday
07-31-06, 06:44 AM
What I meant was, HT was just a way to maximize the utilization of the CPU due to the long pipeline. If it was a no HT CPU but with less idle cicles (the same decrease in idle cycles as seen on a HT CPU for a fair comparison), the gain would be identical.

DJMONDY
07-31-06, 06:45 AM
Well I got this problem when I had a Prescott 2.8 HT . The problem only occured when using the cable modem via USB cable . USB conflict was the main problem with HT processors so when I shifted to ethernet I never got the BSOD.

On the other hand in odd cases you will see HT slows down some of the apps execution instead of running them faster. Oh well I guess fooling the OS in thinking that a single core is dual core to make it work more is not a good idea in reality.

Daydre@m, wow you might have just solved the problem ive had for 3 years.

My bt modem is usb and i didnt realise that ht had problems with this.

Can i get the same cable to connect to my modem but have ethernet on the other end?? the bit that goes into my modem is a fairly large D shape. dunno if this will help.

Thanks

Daydre@m
07-31-06, 11:05 PM
I am really sorry but I didnt quite get your question :o .

You just need a crossover cable to connect the modem to the PC. It works very well and does not conflict with the HT capability.

There is no convertor from USB to Ethernet port ( upto my knowledge ) so you will need a seperate cable for that. If you just have one LAN port and you want to share the internet or something with other PC then you can use a router with the modem or just get another LAN card and use it

DJMONDY
08-01-06, 09:15 AM
Cheers mate ;)