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K007
07-29-06, 05:22 AM
I am currenty usling 5.1 setup with the nvidia sound drivers, off the 9.35 one. I am wondering what is EAX? Like in BF2 i can enable it..Should i enable it? When i enabled it on BF2..i dont think i cauld tell much of a difference..Also is EAX a good thing for headphones?.

Also in Encoding options of nvidia audio cp..i got Clone/Delay/Preset..wtf are these :/

Thanks

Neophyte
07-29-06, 05:27 AM
I am currenty usling 5.1 setup with the nvidia sound drivers, off the 9.35 one. I am wondering what is EAX? Like in BF2 i can enable it..Should i enable it? When i enabled it on BF2..i dont think i cauld tell much of a difference..Also is EAX a good thing for headphones?.

Also in Encoding options of nvidia audio cp..i got Clone/Delay/Preset..wtf are these :/

Thanks
Creative's EAX or Environmental Audio Extensions is a technology that adds an extra level of realism to the audio in a game. From claustrophobic caves to wide open plains, EAX adds the appropriate reverberation to suit the environment. This means that a game developer need only record a sound effect once and it will sound perfect no matter what situation the player gets into!

http://www.soundblaster.com/eax/abouteax/

K007
07-29-06, 05:30 AM
Wow..i just played this Crysis Video the one where they showcase the stuff it can do and enf with the big giant guy screaming..its hd as well..the difference is..amazing..the quality when the rear/front/center..it was very amazing..is that what EAX is? Like in NVMixer i can select None - Clone - Delay and i picked just Preset - Generic and there is LFE Crossover Frequency..that didnt make any chance to the way the thing sounded..

Neophyte
07-29-06, 05:34 AM
Wow..i just played this Crysis Video the one where they showcase the stuff it can do and enf with the big giant guy screaming..its hd as well..the difference is..amazing..the quality when the rear/front/center..it was very amazing..is that what EAX is? Like in NVMixer i can select None - Clone - Delay and i picked just Preset - Generic and there is LFE Crossover Frequency..that didnt make any chance to the way the thing sounded.. EAX only works in games.

Clone is for cloning the sound that come from the front and playe's the same @ the back speakers... Delay is just that.. it delay's sound and thus creating an open kinda sound. Anyway's your not getting EAX while playing a Movie.

K007
07-29-06, 06:18 AM
aaa i see what u mean. Ok i get it :). I think the options in nvmixer made the movie i was playing really awsome..

Neophyte
07-29-06, 06:28 AM
aaa i see what u mean. Ok i get it :). I think the options in nvmixer made the movie i was playing really awsome..
Hehe im sure it did :)

Gaco
07-29-06, 07:18 AM
Wow..i just played this Crysis Video the one where they showcase the stuff it can do and enf with the big giant guy screaming..its hd as well..the difference is..amazing..the quality when the rear/front/center..it was very amazing..is that what EAX is? Like in NVMixer i can select None - Clone - Delay and i picked just Preset - Generic and there is LFE Crossover Frequency..that didnt make any chance to the way the thing sounded..

Which video is that? :)

K007
07-29-06, 07:23 AM
Its an old one. HD one.
"Video footage of Crysis, the new Cryengine game from GDC 2006 in 720p high definition."
http://www.gamearena.com.au/files/details/html/crysis-gdc-2006-highdefinition-trailer

jass
08-01-06, 09:11 AM
I am currenty usling 5.1 setup with the nvidia sound drivers, off the 9.35 one. I am wondering what is EAX? Like in BF2 i can enable it..Should i enable it? When i enabled it on BF2..i dont think i cauld tell much of a difference.

Do you have X-Fi in gaming mode?
When in gaming mode the difference X-fi makes is very audible.

crainger
08-01-06, 06:12 PM
I believe K007 mentioned using Nvidia Sound Driver... I.e. Onboard sound.

No x-fi

Ristogod
08-01-06, 10:38 PM
I prefer not using EAX when I game.

Rakeesh
08-01-06, 11:43 PM
EAX is just a set of audio reverberation and positioning API controls. EAX 2.0 is useful, but anything beyond that is just fluff.

IMO if creative really wanted to be innovative they would have added a set of controls for adjusting the sound patterns based on distance, but instead they screwed around with some worthless morphing crap that they just recently added in eax 5.

jass
08-11-06, 06:17 AM
EAX 2.0 is very primitive by today's standards: audio in games has considerably improved since mid 90's. Saying that a standard set by original Live cards almost 10 years ago is just
"useful, but anything beyond that is fluff"
is like saying that anything above Direct X 7.0 is just fluff - including vertex shaders and pixel shaders..

First off, environment morphing was introduced in 2001 (i.e. with EAX 3.0) already - with first Audigy notwith EAX 5.0 and X-Fi. This was used to great effect in Halo and Jedi Knight 2 for rendering smooth transitions between different reverberant areas in the game.

Environment-morphing has been since superceeded by the Multi-Environments in EAX 4.0. The difference is very audible: in adition to the reverberant space that the player is in, adjacent areas (with reverberant properties) are rendered and positioned relative to the player. Their ambience increases or decreases in level depending on position of the player. In fact this means that the control of "sound patterns based on distance" has been actually added already in EAX 4.0 i.e. 2 years ago!

If you look at EAX 5.0 there are some very good things there such as separate LFE addressing ("EAX pure path") or all the multiplayer additions such as "eax voice" that add environmental clues to VoiP. Not to mention 128 voices support...
No, I do not think anything beyond EAX 2 is just fluff.

Neophyte
08-11-06, 12:18 PM
EAX 2.0 is very primitive by today's standards: audio in games has considerably improved since mid 90's. Saying that a standard set by original Live cards almost 10 years ago is just
"useful, but anything beyond that is fluff"
is like saying that anything above Direct X 7.0 is just fluff - including vertex shaders and pixel shaders..

First off, environment morphing was introduced in 2001 (i.e. with EAX 3.0) already - with first Audigy notwith EAX 5.0 and X-Fi. This was used to great effect in Halo and Jedi Knight 2 for rendering smooth transitions between different reverberant areas in the game.

Environment-morphing has been since superceeded by the Multi-Environments in EAX 4.0. The difference is very audible: in adition to the reverberant space that the player is in, adjacent areas (with reverberant properties) are rendered and positioned relative to the player. Their ambience increases or decreases in level depending on position of the player. In fact this means that the control of "sound patterns based on distance" has been actually added already in EAX 4.0 i.e. 2 years ago!

If you look at EAX 5.0 there are some very good things there such as separate LFE addressing ("EAX pure path") or all the multiplayer additions such as "eax voice" that add environmental clues to VoiP. Not to mention 128 voices support...
No, I do not think anything beyond EAX 2 is just fluff.Amen to that

ynnek
08-11-06, 01:12 PM
yea.. I think EAX has gotten a bad rap because most other soundcards don't support anything more than EAX 2 or 3. The latest EAX and OpenAL stuff support by Creative, is pretty awesome, especially if you have a wellplaced 5.1 setup.

Smokey
08-12-06, 04:34 AM
yea.. I think EAX has gotten a bad rap because most other soundcards don't support anything more than EAX 2 or 3. The latest EAX and OpenAL stuff support by Creative, is pretty awesome, especially if you have a wellplaced 5.1 setup.
Other soundcards dont even support eax3 :D So yes, they people that knock that are only using onboard sound or sound cards that dont support eax3/5, are only going to get reverb :)

Rakeesh
08-12-06, 11:37 AM
EAX 2.0 is very primitive by today's standards: audio in games has considerably improved since mid 90's. Saying that a standard set by original Live cards almost 10 years ago is just
"useful, but anything beyond that is fluff"
is like saying that anything above Direct X 7.0 is just fluff - including vertex shaders and pixel shaders..

First off, environment morphing was introduced in 2001 (i.e. with EAX 3.0) already - with first Audigy notwith EAX 5.0 and X-Fi. This was used to great effect in Halo and Jedi Knight 2 for rendering smooth transitions between different reverberant areas in the game.

Environment-morphing has been since superceeded by the Multi-Environments in EAX 4.0. The difference is very audible: in adition to the reverberant space that the player is in, adjacent areas (with reverberant properties) are rendered and positioned relative to the player. Their ambience increases or decreases in level depending on position of the player. In fact this means that the control of "sound patterns based on distance" has been actually added already in EAX 4.0 i.e. 2 years ago!

If you look at EAX 5.0 there are some very good things there such as separate LFE addressing ("EAX pure path") or all the multiplayer additions such as "eax voice" that add environmental clues to VoiP. Not to mention 128 voices support...
No, I do not think anything beyond EAX 2 is just fluff.

All I know is what I have read from creative themselves. (BTW I know morphing was 3.0, however they supposedly "improved" it in 4.0 and again in 5.0, and that is what I was alluding to) That and I also own an audigy 2, as well as a fully digital 5.1 HT system that I calibrated myself using a THX demo. I cannot tell much of a difference between EAX 2 and EAX 4, even in games that supposedly fully support it. The positioning is identical, and the reverbs are identical.

There may possibly be a difference in say an MMORPG or some other slower paced games where that transition stuff may be more apparent, I honestly don't know because I never play those types of games. But for FPS type games it is practically a non-issue. Again, it is just fluff.

Your basic point here amounts to "well, CD audio was made in the 80's, and technology improves really fast, so there must be better things now." Hate to break it to you, but audio technology hasn't really gone that many new places, and computer soundcards aren't any exception. The only thing that we have really seen in even the last decade is older technologies manifesting themselves in a consumer format, storage efficiency improving, etc. About the only impressive audio technology I have seen in the last decade is sony's DSD format (and IMO it would be awesome to see widespread consumer deployment of this if it weren't so patent encumbered.) Sure our storage efficiencies of audio have increased, but thats about it. DD and DTS are a further manifestation of that (5.1/6.1/7.1 existed long before they did.)

Creative knows there haven't been any improvements in the audio market for decades. So what do they do to keep their sales up? Produce more fluff. Sure it adds some kind of benefit, somewhere in some obscure location, but will the average buyer notice it? Probably not, but I am sure they'll be glad they got it anyways.

Stan: There it is. The Okama GameSphere.
Kyle: Dude, it's got a hundred twenty eight gigahertz DRAM
Stan: What's that?
Kyle: I don't know, but it kicks ass

Other soundcards dont even support eax3 :D So yes, they people that knock that are only using onboard sound or sound cards that dont support eax3/5, are only going to get reverb :)

EDIT: BTW your comment on the sound patterns isn't what I am referring to. If it is, then creative really implimented it like crap because it is barely noticeable at best. See a further post below.

I own an audigy 2, which is supposed to support eax 4 (I'll take a picture of it if you want.) My current card supports eax 3. Even if I owned an x-fi, I would still prefer to use my onboard sound. Primarily due to the fact that no creative card anywhere ever supports digital surround, whereas my onboard card does. That and the fact that there is the likelyhood of the popping issue, and not to mention that creatives sound card drivers are extremely bloated and annoying. It's like I have already said, the eax support is a non issue.

The only way I could conceivably see EAX 5 being any benefit is due to its higher simultaneous channel support than 2 or 3. But TBH I don't see any of todays games ever going above 64.

Zelda_fan
08-12-06, 12:25 PM
EAX sounds nice on paper, and the tech demos are nice too, but in actual games, it just adds an echo effect. So for the most part it is pretty worthless. Thief is about the only game I ever played that made decent use of EAX ( and that was EAX version 1.0 I believe).

Rakeesh
08-12-06, 12:56 PM
IMO reverb is a bit overused in several games. Creatives tech demos overuse it as well, for example what they consider to be a hallway sounds more like a hangar with 1" of water on the floor to me.

What would be truely innovative is to dump the whole reverb system that they have now and replace it with something that would do realtime echo calculations rather than just simulating an echo to the existing sound on the fly.

Perhaps have each wall, floor, surface, etc have a defined softness and smoothness/porousness (this could help make physics engines more realistic as well BTW, such as for defining stuff like friction coefficients.) Then have each sound source reflect off of these objects depending on both the wave form itself (amplitude, pitch, etc) to determine how it should echo, and how it should sound to the person hearing it. Then to add to that, something like I alluded to earlier, which would be adjusting the sound patterns based on the distance as well. Namely, think of HL2 where you are far away and you hear the bullet sounds kinda muffle a bit, only way more defined.

That would definitely require some work, and definitely make some sort of audio "accellerator" card worth having. Right now these upwards of $150 cards aren't worth anything near what people pay for them. Hell, some of the lower end (sub $100) video cards out there had a lot more work and innovation put into them than any of todays sound cards.

ynnek
08-13-06, 12:46 AM
all I gotta say is whatever they did in Quake 4, my X-Fi was literally a world of a difference.. Extremely noticable is an understatement. You just gotta hear it for yourself. Going from onboard, I too was extremely skeptical about the X-Fi.. but it was totaly worth the $100. Games that don't support the latest EAX and/or advanced OpenAL stuff sound so flat, lifeless, simple and boring now.



But still, for those other games, the 5.1 positional clarity was insanely better than my onboard. I couldn't believe how easy it was to hear exactily where people were running, in like CS S for example.

BTW, Alpha, the latest ver of EAX actually does alot of that.. and in games like Quake 4, you can really tell...
http://www.soundblaster.com/eax/abouteax/eax5ahd/

Xion X2
08-17-06, 08:45 AM
Has anyone tried hooking the Fatality up to a stereo surround system? It looks like the front panel has the optical out that I need to run to my stereo for digital surround, and the card has a decoder for Digital EX/DTS.