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MaXThReAT
08-06-06, 10:31 PM
With the PC games just trickling out I may pick up a 360. I don't have a HDtv and prolly wont for a while. I found the VGA Connector (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/) for the 360, it supports the following VGA formats:
640 x 480, 848x480, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 720, 1280 x 768, 1280 x 1024, and 1360 x 768.
Does anyone use this on a standard 4:3 CRT? I would think the picture would be distorted since the only 4:3 res is 1024 x 768, better than a standard tv but is it worth it without a widescreen?

GamerGuyX
08-06-06, 11:17 PM
I use my 360 on two CRT's (but one is 16:9 and the other 16:10).

My HDTV: Sony KD-34XBR960

My PC Monitor: Sony GDM-FW900

Nothing I have seen comes close to the PQ these two screens provide.

MaXThReAT
08-07-06, 12:00 AM
Mmmm, whats the output res you run it in?

GamerGuyX
08-07-06, 12:13 AM
Mmmm, whats the output res you run it in?

720p for my KD-34XBR960.

1280 x 720 on my GDM-FW900.

EDIT: Btw, some 360 games will display in letterbox preserving the aspect ratio for 4:3 monitors.

MaXThReAT
08-07-06, 12:36 AM
720p for my KD-34XBR960.
1280 x 720 on my GDM-FW900.
EDIT: Btw, some 360 games will display in letterbox preserving the aspect ratio for 4:3 monitors.

What, so if you don't own an HDtv or widescreen monitor why bother. Is this how people without a widescreen play 360 on their standard TVs, in letterbox? Letterbox is fine for movies and such but who would want to play games in it. Are the games labeled HD only or something?

GamerGuyX
08-07-06, 12:49 AM
What, so if you don't own an HDtv or widescreen monitor why bother. Is this how people without a widescreen play 360 on their standard TVs, in letterbox? Letterbox is fine for movies and such but who would want to play games in it. Are the games labeled HD only or something?

All/most games render in native 720p (1280 x 720). When choosing a different resolution the 360 upscales or downscales from 720p.

LiquidX
08-07-06, 12:49 AM
I use my 360 on a 22" CRT and it looks great. I use 1360 x 768 and scale my monitor settings so it displays in widescreen being that my monitor is 4:3 and big enough for it not to look funny. Also 1280 x 720 does not look bad at all on a 4:3 monitor.

crainger
08-07-06, 01:03 AM
I use my 360 on two CRT's (but one is 16:9 and the other 16:10).

My HDTV: Sony KD-34XBR960

My PC Monitor: Sony GDM-FW900

Nothing I have seen comes close to the PQ these two screens provide.

I searched high and low for both of those CRTs. Unfortunately they no longer exist in Australia and they are rare and expensive to import.

But I agree, those two would have to be the best for image quality.

GamerGuyX
08-07-06, 01:10 AM
I searched high and low for both of those CRTs. Unfortunately they no longer exist in Australia and they are rare and expensive to import.

But I agree, those two would have to be the best for image quality.

Both have been discontinued in the US as well. Lucky me, I actully got both brand new.

evilchris
08-07-06, 01:20 AM
What, so if you don't own an HDtv or widescreen monitor why bother. Is this how people without a widescreen play 360 on their standard TVs, in letterbox? Letterbox is fine for movies and such but who would want to play games in it. Are the games labeled HD only or something?

This post makes no sense.

Peoples-Agent
08-07-06, 01:49 AM
I'll be using mine on a standard 100Hz widescreen TV, until I can get around to buying a HDTV. They are still quite expensive over here.

£800 for a good 32" LCD HDTV here, that's like $1600 with the new conversion rates.

MaXThReAT
08-07-06, 02:19 AM
All/most games render in native 720p (1280 x 720). When choosing a different resolution the 360 upscales or downscales from 720p.

So if it up/downscales from 720p(16:9) it's not going to be a 4:3 aspect and distort the picture. LiquidX says 1280 x 720 does not look bad at all on a 22" 4:3 monitor. But looking at say HL2 with that res on my 19" looks way smashed/stretched to me if I make it full screen. I understand he is adj the screen size to make it widescreen. I don't know,... it doesn’t sound like a 4:3 monitor would work that well,...unless I'm misunderstanding.

GamerGuyX
08-07-06, 03:00 AM
So if it up/downscales from 720p(16:9) it's not going to be a 4:3 aspect and distort the picture. LiquidX says 1280 x 720 does not look bad at all on a 22" 4:3 monitor. But looking at say HL2 with that res on my 19" looks way smashed/stretched to me if I make it full screen. I understand he is adj the screen size to make it widescreen. I don't know,... it doesn’t sound like a 4:3 monitor would work that well,...unless I'm misunderstanding.

Yes, to truely enjoy a 360 one would need to have a high-def widescreen display. There is no getting around this fact.

With that in mind, a high-def widescreen display is not required. So to compensate for older tech some game are in letterbox format on 4:3 screens (which is a good thing because it mantains the proper aspect ratio).

If I'm not mistaken some games are zoomed in but it cuts off on all sides.

MaXThReAT
08-07-06, 03:23 AM
Yes, to truely enjoy a 360 one would need to have a high-def widescreen display. There is no getting around this fact.
If I'm not mistaken some games are zoomed in but it cuts off on all sides.

Well I may go ahead and get one. I would probably run like LiquidX in 1360 x 768 and adj for letterbox. Some Dead Rising and Gears of War is better than none. I guess maybe it's time to also start looking at a new widescreen monitor. I still don't really see any benefit besides it being a wider picture. I can drool over Hitman, BF2, NFSMW and many others at 2048x1536 but the max a fairly good widescreen can do is 1680x1050 maybe 1920x1200 if you stay under $500. What’s the benefit?

GamerGuyX
08-07-06, 03:44 AM
Well I may go ahead and get one. I would probably run like LiquidX in 1360 x 768 and adj for letterbox. Some Dead Rising and Gears of War is better than none. I guess maybe it's time to also start looking at a new widescreen monitor. I still don't really see any benefit besides it being a wider picture. I can drool over Hitman, BF2, NFSMW and many others at 2048x1536 but the max a fairly good widescreen can do is 1680x1050 maybe 1920x1200 if you stay under $500. What’s the benefit?

Let me guess, you see no benefit of widescreen for movies either right?

*sigh*

lognoronon
08-07-06, 06:52 AM
Most of the games don't force themselves into widescreen format on normal tv's minus a few games. My brother has a 360 and one of the baseball games he has forces itself into widescreen and I about wanted to throw the game around after finding out they were too lazy to make it non widescreen on normal tv's. If I wanted to watch letterbox I would be watching a movie not playing a game. The majority of people still own non hd because of costs so that was extremely stupid of them to do that.

ENU291
08-07-06, 08:22 AM
If you hate Widescreen High Definition gaming so much then get a Nintendo Wii and be done with it! The 360 and PS3 are not for you.

MaXThReAT
08-07-06, 09:51 AM
Guys, guys don't turn on me here, geez.

Let me guess, you see no benefit of widescreen for movies either right?
*sigh*

Letterbox is fine for movies and such but who would want to play games in it (on a 4:3 monitor).

Uhhh I love letterbox for movies. I don't buy anything but widescreen looks very nice on my 52" TV but the 360 in letterbox on a 4:3 standard tv would look like crap.


If you hate Widescreen High Definition gaming so much then get a Nintendo Wii and be done with it! The 360 and PS3 are not for you.

People like you and evilchris are why I don't post much. I never said I hated widescreen or HD gaming if you can call 1080p HD. I call HD 2048x1536 or 2560x2048, it's HD to people that don't know any better or have the hardware to deal with it. Why would I pay over $500 to downgrade my resolution? Oooo you can see more side to side. I can't stand playing games in anything less than 1600x1200. Maybe you should stick to consoles, whatever.
GamerGuyX thank you the help, goodbye.

evilchris
08-07-06, 10:05 AM
Enjoy your 2048x1536 HD television programming, wait there isn't any, I guess 1920x1080 TV and movies isn't good enough....stick with SD.

ENU291
08-07-06, 10:52 AM
People like you and evilchris are why I don't post much. I never said I hated widescreen or HD gaming if you can call 1080p HD. I call HD 2048x1536 or 2560x2048, it's HD to people that don't know any better or have the hardware to deal with it. Why would I pay over $500 to downgrade my resolution? Oooo you can see more side to side. I can't stand playing games in anything less than 1600x1200. Maybe you should stick to consoles, whatever.
GamerGuyX thank you the help, goodbye.
Sooner or later you have to come to the realization that widescreen aspect ratios (16:9/16:10) is the future of almost every video format. The 360 and PS3 are future focused so asking developers to cater to two difference screen formats is rediculous. If you have a 4:3 monitor or television letterboxed widescreen video is just something you will have to live with.

npras42
08-07-06, 11:08 AM
If your monitor is big enough then I don't see the problem with letterboxing. It looks fine. It is better to get a widescreen though, and I do now run on the same 16:10 Sony monitor that GGX mentioned above. I had a Sony 21" 4:3 before this though and as long as you are reasonably close to the screen it works well.

I have to say though despite what evilchris says above 1920x1080 is great for TV as its a massive step-up from nomal, but on the PC there aren't many games that I don't play at at least 19x12 and that is a massive difference to the 720p games that the X360 runs. It is easily noticed by anyone who's done a lot of PC gaming. Yes its true that I've seen a lot of effects employed that I havent seen on PC games, but the amount of jaggies on all X360 games (even those with 4x AA) is evident, as are the lower texture resolutions.

lognoronon
08-07-06, 11:54 AM
If you hate Widescreen High Definition gaming so much then get a Nintendo Wii and be done with it! The 360 and PS3 are not for you.

Wow good job on understanding what you read. No one said they actually hate HD. Facts are facts though and the majority of people still don't have a HD TV because of costs. Like it or not they need to still make em non letterbox for the majority of people. I plan on getting an HD TV once they are at the price of current TV's (actually affordable) Secondly I and many others do plan on getting a Wii and I also plan on a 360 but not a PS3 at this time until they readjust the price so that it is more affordable.

evilchris
08-07-06, 12:01 PM
Wow good job on understanding what you read. No one said they actually hate HD. Facts are facts though and the majority of people still don't have a HD TV because of costs. Like it or not they need to still make em non letterbox for the majority of people. I plan on getting an HD TV once they are at the price of current TV's (actually affordable) Secondly I and many others do plan on getting a Wii and I also plan on a 360 but not a PS3 at this time until they readjust the price so that it is more affordable.

You can't make HD " non letterbox". HD is 16:9 format period.

HDTV's are affordable. You can get a tube HDTV for $299. Are you one of those people who buy $500 video cards every 6 months but then say HDTV's are expensive?

evilchris
08-07-06, 12:02 PM
If your monitor is big enough then I don't see the problem with letterboxing. It looks fine. It is better to get a widescreen though, and I do now run on the same 16:10 Sony monitor that GGX mentioned above. I had a Sony 21" 4:3 before this though and as long as you are reasonably close to the screen it works well.

I have to say though despite what evilchris says above 1920x1080 is great for TV as its a massive step-up from nomal, but on the PC there aren't many games that I don't play at at least 19x12 and that is a massive difference to the 720p games that the X360 runs. It is easily noticed by anyone who's done a lot of PC gaming. Yes its true that I've seen a lot of effects employed that I havent seen on PC games, but the amount of jaggies on all X360 games (even those with 4x AA) is evident, as are the lower texture resolutions.

evilchris says above? I was being sarcastic dude, making fun of the guy.

ENU291
08-07-06, 12:03 PM
Wow good job on understanding what you read. No one said they actually hate HD.
Seems like you are the one not understanding what was said. I stated "Widescreen high definition". As I said earlier asking developers to make special arrangements for older televisions makes no sense. If viewing the image in letterbox mode is acceptable for movies it should also be acceptable for gaming.